ravishingravi Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 APn07PS-5qc Very interesting BBC documentary on India. I saw it at one go on independence day. Very insightful and surprisingly not condescending by BBC standards. Loved it.
maniac Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Saw it a couple of years ago on ABC I think?But also available on Netflix(Also niot sure)....very good doccumentary.....It is always good to see a fresh perspective....Came to know some interesting historical facts. The best part is he covers some of the South history and culture too...
Lurker Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Documentaries like this does set you thinking of so many myriad of ways, does it not? One question it always brings in my mind is - With such a history, better than any civilization really, why do we suck so bad at Historical exvacation/projects etc? Almost all the best work on Indian civilization comes from British stable. In many ways but for them such knowledge would be lost to the world, and alarmingly even to Indians. When my kid sister was studying in England, 3 of her British colleagues visited our hometown as they were doing a research on Pali, Brahmi and Prakrit script. And one of the better places for them is the Magadh University library/mueseum. Call me a cynic but I am yet to meet an Indian who has worked on those scripts in recent time. Recently I read some works on these dead, or dying languages, and they were ALL by Brits.
maniac Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Documentaries like this does set you thinking of so many myriad of ways, does it not? One question it always brings in my mind is - With such a history, better than any civilization really, why do we suck so bad at Historical exvacation/projects etc? Almost all the best work on Indian civilization comes from British stable. In many ways but for them such knowledge would be lost to the world, and alarmingly even to Indians. When my kid sister was studying in England, 3 of her British colleagues visited our hometown as they were doing a research on Pali, Brahmi and Prakrit script. And one of the better places for them is the Magadh University library/mueseum. Call me a cynic but I am yet to meet an Indian who has worked on those scripts in recent time. Recently I read some works on these dead, or dying languages, and they were ALL by Brits. Why learn Pali Script when the money is in Java Script :dontknow:
veer Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 ^^^ hahhaa.. but jokes aside.. you are so right Lurker. I guess maniac's sarcasm has some truth to it. We are so money driven people.. until recently field of Arts was seen as 'faltu' type field.. we are driven/forced to work on our doctory/engineering/lawyer degrees.. we are part of the problem.
The Dark Horse Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 We were so far ahead, but now we are so far behind of the times-sad but true
Yoda-esque Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 I have seen it on Netflix.Its great. Theres on on Alexander.Its brilliant.He actually traces his entire conquest through the countries.
Lurker Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 ^^^ hahhaa.. but jokes aside.. you are so right Lurker. I guess maniac's sarcasm has some truth to it. We are so money driven people.. until recently field of Arts was seen as 'faltu' type field.. we are driven/forced to work on our doctory/engineering/lawyer degrees.. we are part of the problem. We are not Veer, we have been sold that sordid tale in the garb of capitalism/globalism/Americanism and we have only been too happy to comply. My Dad is a Gold Medalist in Anthroplogy from Ranchi University and he would regale us often during childhood of the works he had done with Santhals in Chotanagpur belt. That was his PhD thesis work and he had tons of stories on different cultures and history. He is fiercly fond of his Guru even today, LP Vidyarthi. Here is a link for Dr. LP Vidyarthi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._P._Vidyarthi I mention my Dad as an example because of course I am proud of him, but also to show things changed overnight between two generations - mine and his. Taking nothing away from the BBC documentary, and thanks Ravish for sharing, the question remains why such efforts are not taken by Indians, and Indian Institutions.
veer Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Impressive work and words of wisdom from Dr. Vidyarthi!! But on the point though.. I would say your father and Dr. Vidyarthi were among the very few who promoted their type of thinking. Our society looks at your degree and money to gauge you.. and hence, at least, last two three generation tend to go for degree work instead of field like anthropology.
jind Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 For those interested, this documentary, The Story of India, is 6 part long with each episode around an hour long. Needless to say, it was an interesting documentary. 1. Beginnings 2. The Power of Ideas 3. Spice Routes and Silk Roads 4. Ages of Gold 5. The Meetings of Two Oceans 6. Freedom
surajmal Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Any serious archaelogical work will require digging 50-60 meters considering the amount of destruction that took place during islamic invasions. While ASI's majority of funding is geared towards beautification/preservation of standing historical buildings/monuments, so Pre-1000 AD research is out of the question. Besides we are secular only, Excavating the Hindu Past will damage the fragile social fabric (see Babri). Another thing is that India is so god damn overpopulated that you will find settlements in nearly every area of interest (to archaeological digging). So permits will be a hard get. Dozens of NGOs get their panties in a knot regarding development projects, so imagine what would happen if Government was found "wasting" monies on projects of "little" social consequence that furthermore may result in displacement of peoples. Traditional Archaeological methods (from what little I can remember from Intro to Archaeology Class) are definitely out of the question. Ground Penetrating Radars and Aerial Mapping Tools such as Drones will be needed before any sort of digging can begin and that requires serious moolah. Don't think an Indian government can justify that sort of expenditure if there still exist a pocket of people that question ISRO funding. I think one project more important than any other is excavation of Indraprastha, just so we can set the timeline of Indian History straight and squash the AIT/AMT/PIE for good. Private Hindu Organizations can do a lot in this regard instead of wasting money on building new temples. JMTC.
maniac Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 We are not Veer, we have been sold that sordid tale in the garb of capitalism/globalism/Americanism and we have only been too happy to comply. My Dad is a Gold Medalist in Anthroplogy from Ranchi University and he would regale us often during childhood of the works he had done with Santhals in Chotanagpur belt. That was his PhD thesis work and he had tons of stories on different cultures and history. He is fiercly fond of his Guru even today, LP Vidyarthi. Here is a link for Dr. LP Vidyarthi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._P._Vidyarthi I mention my Dad as an example because of course I am proud of him, but also to show things changed overnight between two generations - mine and his. Taking nothing away from the BBC documentary, and thanks Ravish for sharing, the question remains why such efforts are not taken by Indians, and Indian Institutions. Lurker....I get your point but it is easy for you(I mean not literally you so don't take it personal) but here is the deal, Specialised studies is not encouraged in our ciricullum right at the grassroot level and it is ironic that our cirriculum follows the British school of teaching.This obviously is the most common mode of education.I mean I am not saying something that you already don't know There is actually a vedic school near my village.most of the kids who go there are children of poor priests training to be Pujaris...once again not for their intetrest in the subject but for professional reasons,so despite 'hopefully' some of them understand the meaning of the verses,it would be more occupational than a subject of interest,but would parents who afford convent education send their kids to a school like that. I mentioned the example mentioned above because that preserves our culture in it's own unique way and gives a chance for others enamoured with our culture to dig deeper and do more research on what is already in front of them. Take example of this doccumentary and the journalists and researchers involved,they are funded by 5-6 billion $ revenue generating giant like BBC but I am sure the information that they collected was from lot of Scholars from India
Lurker Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Lurker....I get your point but it is easy for you(I mean not literally you so don't take it personal) but here is the deal, Specialised studies is not encouraged in our ciricullum right at the grassroot level and it is ironic that our cirriculum follows the British school of teaching.This obviously is the most common mode of education.I mean I am not saying something that you already don't know But on the point though.. I would say your father and Dr. Vidyarthi were among the very few who promoted their type of thinking. Our society looks at your degree and money to gauge you.. and hence, at least, last two three generation tend to go for degree work instead of field like anthropology I agree with both of you guys. They are valid points. And yet somewhere they also start becoming excuses. Forgive me for saying this but we always seem to have easiest of excuses to come off a scenario. We suck at Olympics. Well we do not have a sporting culture. We suck at preseving our own history. Well we dont have a culture to do so. We suck at creating half-decent IT products after 3 decades. Well we dont have a product based culture. I mean at some time we all look at that and wonder there must be seriously something wrong here. It is not that we are poorest country in the world in terms of resources but we sure do exhibit more bechaara atitude than anybody else :sniffle: If our appreciation of history, and deduction of history, going to come from West/Brits...surely they will also end up defining our history? No?
triam Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Lurker, I believe this (in addition to a sporting culture ala US or OZ from the other thread) is based upon, overal income standards. If anyone can do archaelogy as their major, fail to get a job in that field but still be able to have a decent standard of living as it happens in a developed country, more people would be willing to take that risk. As it stands today you study archaeology and/or train for a particular sport, dont reach the absolute top there is no middle ground or fall back option to these people. So why would anyone take that risk?
The Outsider Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Specialised studies is not encouraged in our ciricullum right at the grassroot level and it is ironic that our cirriculum follows the British school of teaching.This obviously is the most common mode of education.I mean I am not saying something that you already don't know That's not correct. In fact, specialized study is the only thing the Indian education specializes in. At the age of 15 you have to make a decision whether you want to study Physics more than History, Chemistry more than Business and then at the age of 17 or even earlier for all practical purposes you have to decide whether you want to study Math more than Biology, and continuing further a year down the line you are forced into a discipline according to your rank in an entrance exam with no way of going back. Our education system accords zero flexibility and is completely geared towards specialization.
Crookbond Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Documentaries like this does set you thinking of so many myriad of ways, does it not? One question it always brings in my mind is - With such a history, better than any civilization really, why do we suck so bad at Historical exvacation/projects etc? Almost all the best work on Indian civilization comes from British stable. In many ways but for them such knowledge would be lost to the world, and alarmingly even to Indians. When my kid sister was studying in England, 3 of her British colleagues visited our hometown as they were doing a research on Pali, Brahmi and Prakrit script. And one of the better places for them is the Magadh University library/mueseum. Call me a cynic but I am yet to meet an Indian who has worked on those scripts in recent time. Recently I read some works on these dead, or dying languages, and they were ALL by Brits. Let me talk about Computational Linguistics since I am quite familiar about this area There are people (albeit to a lesser degree) who do their research for Indian languages - old and new. Let me name one professor from IITB Prof. Pushpak Bhattacharya. Just do a Ctrl+F on the term "Hindi" or Urdu and you will find a lot of work by him on the Computational Linguistics aspect [1]. Also, let me assure you that this research is not second grade but pure gold. For example, one of his recent work is in COLING 2008 which is a top notch place for computational linguists. Likewise, if you browse through other departments you will find a lot of people working on Tamil, Bengali and even tribal languages! Why do I say the above? I agree that there is less inclination to do such work but people still do it despite all odds. But, they hardly derive any value. The mainstream media doesn't report these things to the masses over a Poonam Pandey or Tendulkar's PA job. Here's an example - Brendan O' Connor (a graduate student at CMU) published some work on understanding public poll sentiment from Twitter [2]. This work was presented at a venue which is a relatively new venue and not that good as a COLING. What happens next? His research is featured in Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Mashable, Ars Technica, New Scientist, CNN Tech, Fast Company, Science Now, Economic Times, BBC Radio 5 (at 13:00) and others. Woaah! And this is NOT an isolated incident. I can name you many such news, analysis etc. Back here in India, there's hardly any information dissemination on such topics - neither is there enough encouragement. For example, I know the people who work behind the Fingerprint recognition for the UIDAI Aadhar project but have you heard of them? Everyone would know about Pranaj Mukherjee and Pratibha Patil but no one knows about Sam Pitroda - one of the pioneers of communication revolution in India. What happens then? Since, these people aren't given due recognition - it doesn't motivate them enough as they feel these problems are not important (Note how Pushpak hasn't had any papers on Hindi after 2008). But, the west is as fascinated about such work - sometimes even more than we are. Someone made a list of best paper awards at CS conferences recently. A conference named CHI has awarded a best paper award (it's kind of like the best research for this year award) to a certain Neil Patel from Stanford University (he's not Indian) [3]. He has built a system called Avaaj Otalo which is an Interactive Voice Forum for Small Farmers in Rural India (currently focuses in Gujrat). The last I know he's working full time based out of Gujarat! I find it absolutely embarrassing that an American wants to work for the betterment of farmers in rural India while we are busy in your 9-5 jobs. In summary, my point was that there are people at different parts in India doing some amazing things which no one knows about. We have lost many great minds to this phenomena. It may not be as great as that in the US but there still are. The way to break this cycle is to encourage people to carry out such studies i.e. if we have the time from Hindu-Muslim riots, calling NE chinks. BJP vs Congress etc. [1] http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~pb/pubs-yearwise.html [2] http://videolectures.net/icwsm2010_oconnor_ftp/ [3] http://jeffhuang.com/best_paper_awards.html#chi
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