Shouldn't Dhoni also resign as test captain ?

[Trichromatic]

chalo even if I give u that,what about instances where oppositions batted first n piled on 474,591 n 604???whats the batsmen fault there?n in 2nd test in England where we did get a lead only for England to score 544.that wasnt a flat deck surely.

It wasn't as bad as Indian made in their 2nd inning. They got bowled out in 2 sessions. Batsmen made sure that we didn't save the match. Bowlers failed to win it and batsmen failed to save it. Last day was washed by rain. Same goes for 4th test. Sure it was a flat pitch and even more sub-continent like. A pitch where Mishra batted so easily and our specialist batsmen couldn't survive against Swann. First test in Australia was lost mainly because of batsmen and Perth test also. 4 out of 8 tests. Sure 4-0 or 4-1 would have better than 8-0

[GautiMaan]

If the fact that the field placements were too defensive was obvious,then why didnt any of the senior players in the team have a word with Dhoni(perhaps they were even more clueless) and what was the fatso Fletcher doing? The point is that the team needed a shake-up after 4-0 itself,neither our captain nor the selectors wanted to get their hands dirty,so we are where we are now

[Ultimate_Game]

the opposition got 700 against our bowlers n still u see fault in batting:laugh:no that wasnt a flat pitch(Edgbaston).not a 200 wicket but not a 700 wicket either.we didnt need t bowl them for 200.300 would hv been okay.not 700. chalo even if I give u that,what about instances where oppositions batted first n piled on 474,591 n 604???whats the batsmen fault there?n in 2nd test in England where we did get a lead only for England to score 544.that wasnt a flat deck surely. yeah historically we only won wen batsmen piled on the runs?whats the captains contribution there?any decent captain can do that.shouldnt that change.how long will batsmen continue to save bowlers's asses.

Yup, I do. If opponents could plunder 700 against us what were our "legends" and "fab 4" doing? Other than Dravid why didn't anyone put his hand up and score runs? Dravid showed that you could score runs against the English bowlers but none of our batsmen wanted to be out in the middle. Even if we had restricted Eng to 500 instead of 700 we still would have been thrashed. What I found galling was the way we were outbatted on the tours. Never have I seen our batsmen out-batted the way they were on these tours. On earlier tours we failed due to our poor bowling but this was the first time I actually saw us being p**s poor with the bat. So yes batting should shoulder most of the blame for that 0-8 debacle.

[Ultimate_Game]

If the fact that the field placements were too defensive was obvious,then why didnt any of the senior players in the team have a word with Dhoni(perhaps they were even more clueless) and what was the fatso Fletcher doing? The point is that the team needed a shake-up after 4-0 itself,neither our captain nor the selectors wanted to get their hands dirty,so we are where we are now

I am not denying that field placements couldn't have been better or Dhoni wasn't that aggressive. In fact I hated the fact that Dhoni spread the field when the tail-enders came in. I would rather have seen an attacking field with tail-enders and batsmen taking risk to score than give free singles. But that was not the reason we were so thoroughly thrashed. Our batting was shambles on the 0-8 debacle and blaming Dhoni for the debacle would be missing teh point and giving our batsmen a free pass.

[King Tendulkar]

Frankly dhoni in those tours did not look interested or bothered.

[Ultimate_Game]

Frankly dhoni in those tours did not look interested or bothered.

Like most of the team.

[Lord]

I am not denying that field placements couldn't have been better or Dhoni wasn't that aggressive. In fact I hated the fact that Dhoni spread the field when the tail-enders came in. I would rather have seen an attacking field with tail-enders and batsmen taking risk to score than give free singles. But that was not the reason we were so thoroughly thrashed. Our batting was shambles on the 0-8 debacle and blaming Dhoni for the debacle would be missing teh point and giving our batsmen a free pass.

nobody gave them free pass.two of them have already retired,time for Dhoni to follow suit(resign from captaincy,not retire)

[maniac]

Yup' date=' I do. If opponents could plunder 700 against us what were our "legends" and "fab 4" doing? Other than Dravid why didn't anyone put his hand up and score runs? Dravid showed that you could score runs against the English bowlers but none of our batsmen wanted to be out in the middle. Even if we had restricted Eng to 500 instead of 700 we still would have been thrashed. What I found galling was the way we were outbatted on the tours. Never have I seen our batsmen out-batted the way they were on these tours. On earlier tours we failed due to our poor bowling but this was the first time I actually saw us being p**s poor with the bat. So yes batting should shoulder most of the blame for that 0-8 debacle.[/quote'] Ok back to the topic....So if you had to pick Dhoni's responsibility as a captain in the decable on a scale of 1-10 what do you rate it as? Did batsmen and bowlers suck...yes,so does that mean Dhoni is completely shielded being the captain of the side? Now 2 of the seniors have quit.....There have been new bowlers that have been tried...midst of trying tried and tested failures there have been some positive changes here and there....Ashwin,Yadav,Kohli,Pujara,Ojha,Pathan in LOI....now since some issues are in the process of being rectified ....Yes or no might be a matter of discussion for another time.... So now brings to the captain.....if heads are rolling based on the debacle...shouldn't leadership also be a part of it...

[maniac]

If Dhoni gets acclaim for his captaincy due to seniors then why can't he share the responsibilty for the debacles as well

[Lord]

Yup' date=' I do. If opponents could plunder 700 against us what were our "legends" and "fab 4" doing? Other than Dravid why didn't anyone put his hand up and score runs? Dravid showed that you could score runs against the English bowlers but none of our batsmen wanted to be out in the middle. Even if we had restricted Eng to 500 instead of 700 we still would have been thrashed. What I found galling was the way we were outbatted on the tours. Never have I seen our batsmen out-batted the way they were on these tours. On earlier tours we failed due to our poor bowling but this was the first time I actually saw us being p**s poor with the bat. So yes batting should shoulder most of the blame for that 0-8 debacle.[/quote'] dude u dont batsmen to score big on unhelpful conditions.if they do brilliant.they had been brilliant in previous tours which helped us win games,but u cant except brilliance.wat u do expect is the bowlers to make use of helpful conditions n bowl teams out cheaply.conditions were favourable to bowlers,so they were the ones who were expected to do most of the job,simple as that.in SC u expect batsmen to do most of the job.in Eng n Aus u expect the opposite i.e. bowlers to do it.which part of it is hard to grasp?

[putrevus]

Dhoni should be given series against England at home with their weakened batting and at home if India does not win the series 3-0 at least, it should be bye bye Dhoni as a captain.

[Lord]

If Dhoni gets acclaim for his captaincy due to seniors then why can't he share the responsibilty for the debacles as well

exactly

[Lord]

Dhoni should be given series against England at home with their weakened batting and at home if India does not win the series 3-0 at least' date=' it should be bye bye Dhoni as a captain.[/quote'] winning at home isnt much of an issue,specially against such a weakened side.he handles spinners well.its his captaincy of fast bowling that gets exposed in forunland though I still dount we'll win 3-0

[Ultimate_Game]

Ok back to the topic....So if you had to pick Dhoni's responsibility as a captain in the decable on a scale of 1-10 what do you rate it as? Did batsmen and bowlers suck...yes,so does that mean Dhoni is completely shielded being the captain of the side? Now 2 of the seniors have quit.....There have been new bowlers that have been tried...midst of trying tried and tested failures there have been some positive changes here and there....Ashwin,Yadav,Kohli,Pujara,Ojha,Pathan in LOI....now since some issues are in the process of being rectified ....Yes or no might be a matter of discussion for another time.... So now brings to the captain.....if heads are rolling based on the debacle...shouldn't leadership also be a part of it...

If I had to rate various skills from a scale of 1-10, with 10 taking the most blame and 0 totally blameless this is how I would rate various disciplines on our away tours where we went 0-8... 1. Batting - 10. Our batting was cr@p where we didn't even last one session without losing a wkt over 8 tests. We couldn't string even one partnership and never troubled the opposing bowlers. 2. Bowling - 7. Even if we managed to take wkts we seldom put sustained pressure on the opponent batsmen. We gave away hit me balls every over and Umesh's RR of 4.5 in Aus says it all. 3. Fitness/Match Readiness/Coaching staff - 8. We were so unfit for the matches, especially the Eng one. Half the team looked fat and unfir as if they had wandered on to the ground on vacation. Zak going down on the Day 1 of the 1st Test, Harbhajan playing with a side strain and leaving us a bowler short in the 2nd test and Sehwag being fast-tracked into the team when clearly unfit were case-in points. BCCI and physios should have been forced to be more accountable for these fiascos. 4. Fielding - 6. Our fielding looked so 70ish with Dravid dropping dollies in the slips and players like Laxman, Sehwag, Tendulkar 7 Ashwin in the field. It almost looked as if seniors cricket team was playing a game. 5. Captaincy - 5. Dhoni was way too defensive with his fielding especially when the tail-enders were batting with a batsman. He allowed opponents easy singles when he should have attacked them more. But to be fair Dhoni never had the luxury of too many runs in the bank or bowlers who could bowl to a field.

[putrevus]

winning at home isnt much of an issue,specially against such a weakened side.he handles spinners well.its his captaincy of fast bowling that gets exposed in forunland though I still dount we'll win 3-0

Well it was not issue when big guns were batting, let us not jump the gun, the same thing was said when we toured Australia with all their issue it was their weakest team, we got hammered. If Dhoni keeps home field advantage intact and hammers every team at home and I would give him a chance to set his overseas record straight starting from SA 2013.

[Trichromatic]

If Dhoni keeps home field advantage intact and hammers every team at home and I would give him a chance to set his overseas record straight starting from SA 2013.

+1. Time for resigning has passed now. He should try to use this home series to build a team for next overseas tours and WC.

[Asim]

Dhoni plays Test Matches like one typical "sarkaari nokar"...

[maniac]

If I had to rate various skills from a scale of 1-10, with 10 taking the most blame and 0 totally blameless this is how I would rate various disciplines on our away tours where we went 0-8... 1. Batting - 10. Our batting was cr@p where we didn't even last one session without losing a wkt over 8 tests. We couldn't string even one partnership and never troubled the opposing bowlers. 2. Bowling - 7. Even if we managed to take wkts we seldom put sustained pressure on the opponent batsmen. We gave away hit me balls every over and Umesh's RR of 4.5 in Aus says it all. 3. Fitness/Match Readiness/Coaching staff - 8. We were so unfit for the matches, especially the Eng one. Half the team looked fat and unfir as if they had wandered on to the ground on vacation. Zak going down on the Day 1 of the 1st Test, Harbhajan playing with a side strain and leaving us a bowler short in the 2nd test and Sehwag being fast-tracked into the team when clearly unfit were case-in points. BCCI and physios should have been forced to be more accountable for these fiascos. 4. Fielding - 6. Our fielding looked so 70ish with Dravid dropping dollies in the slips and players like Laxman, Sehwag, Tendulkar 7 Ashwin in the field. It almost looked as if seniors cricket team was playing a game. 5. Captaincy - 5. Dhoni was way too defensive with his fielding especially when the tail-enders were batting with a batsman. He allowed opponents easy singles when he should have attacked them more. But to be fair Dhoni never had the luxury of too many runs in the bank or bowlers who could bowl to a field.

Ok let us look at the trend of recent captains who have stepped down in the last year or so -Strauss-Eng lose No 1 ranking infact the only big blot was 2-0 to SA and 3-0 to Pak...in between they won against WI and tied with SL away...poor for a No 1 side especially getting a** kicked at home -yes but nothing close to an 8-0 drubbing...now before English fans or Anti-English fans get excited and try to quote me on this Dhoni is a captain for all 3 formats and still does more than a decent job in LOI's and he is first on the list for any LOI starting line up for India. Now was Strauss the only failure,what about English middleorder,their bowlers etc...any drubbing is a collective failure right? Ricky Ponting-The guy won 2 wc's,Once Captain of the most dominant side in the world.....has a slump in form and his team's fortunes change....hell probably they set the benchmark so high that a mediocre performance started looking like a drubbing...Ricky Ponting probably the Top 5 batsman ever to play the game(again debatable but he is a legend no doubt)...what does he do resigns.... Now what does Dhoni have that these 2 don't is baffling or is Dhoni a paper Captain like our Adharniya Pradhan Mantri...seems like you are implying that gouing by how many time Seniors are being brought into the discussion

[The Outsider]

Now what does Dhoni have that these 2 don't is baffling or is Dhoni a paper Captain like our Adharniya Pradhan Mantri...seems like you are implying that gouing by how many time Seniors are being brought into the discussion

Dhoni has been given minimal responsibility for the debacle. The question is what is the benchmark for a good performance from him. If we expect him to make runs, no we can't do that because he is not a specialist batsman. If we expect him to take catches or at least not ruin them for the slips, no we can't do that because he might not be a great keeper but he is a package. If we expect him to get the best out of his bowling attack by astute captaincy, no we can't do that because our batting was abysmal. If we expect him to lead the team through inspirational performances like Ganguly's 144 or Kapil's 9-83, no we can't do that either because he an ordinary batsman and ordinary keeper. What can we expect out of Dhoni then? What's the benchmark for a good performance from him?

[superstar]

No. Strauss would not have resigned if he was 30 years old.