India's greatest test cricket captain: Ganguly vs Dhoni

[BeautifulGame]

Ganguly Problems during Ganguly's time-No steady opening pair in tests...Look at all the combinations we had to endure No Reliable Keeper-Mongia banned Lot of Middle order slots up for the taking-Azhar,Jadeja Dhoni Dhoni-I have said this in other threads Dhoni the player is probably one of the best things to happen to Indian cricket last Decade,Karthik would have been first choice in the 90's era and ended up being a legend in his own right Openers-Sehwag-Gambhir-Their record till recent times speaks for itself. Middle order-One of the best ever to play the game

Yep their overseas record speaks for themselves.:hysterical: And Ganguly had Kumble Sachin and Dravid at their peak.Under Ganguly only one middle order spot was available and that was taken by Laxman.

[vvvslaxman]

^ I am not a Ganguly bhakt by any means......I look at the captains contribution by not how many trophies he has won because we all know captain is as good as his team...I look at the captain's contribution as how as a leader he laid the foundation for the future....Hell I even rate Kumble over Dhoni going by how many tmes Dhoni has thanked him for the smooth transition to him.

I would rate Kumble over Gangu,. Only few guys who would put below Ganguly are Tendulkar, Azhar, Vengsarkar.

[BeautifulGame]

By the time Gangu took over it was water under the bridge. Sachin was the captain before Ganguly not Azharuddin. Ganguly looked awfully good because his captaincy was followed by one of the worst captain in Indian history and fraud captain. Also John Wright brought in lot of fresh ideas as a coach. His confrontational attitude didnt help anyone. Even in IPL we could see how pathetically Ganguly made some changes. Dhoni given the right ingredients i would 100% back him to go all the way in a tournament.

IIRC it was during Sachin's captaincy the match fixing allegations emerged.The SA tour to India which was under fixing clouds,wasnt Sachin the captain for that series?Might mistaken though.

[maniac]

Gauti the player emerged under Dhoni and leaving everything aside' date='about Ashwin, can you tell me how many spinners have won us matches abroad :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:[/quote'] Let Raina and Ahswin end up with the same career stats and accomplishments of Darty and Yuvi and then we will talk also btw...Bowling was always our problem but there are many other weaknesses we had in the Ganguly era which are masked now...Memory check-We did not have a world beating middle order in the Ganguly era but the foundation was laid for that Here is the thing...Let Dhoni contribute to Indian cricket by encouraging bowlers Fast/Spin and make us a formidable bowling unit-which going by the look of it will not happen in 100 years...then I will say Dhoni is probably one of the greatest captains not just in India but in the world

[vvvslaxman]

Whole country hated Ganguly at one point of his career as a captain. There was so much anti Ganguly wave. I don't think Dhoni will ever get such overwhelmingly bad disapprovals like Ganguly did. Only guy who got such dispproval was Azharuddin. Lot of us forget that. Dhoni is carrying a huge stigma now. But aside from that he has done tremendously well for India. Taking his side to world no.1 spot and won world cup. For a team like Australia winning world cup is a run of the mill thing due to their work ethic imbibed in them. For us winning a world cup ia rare event. Whoever does that will have lot more credit than who fails at the hurdle.

[maniac]

Yep their overseas record speaks for themselves.:hysterical: And Ganguly had Kumble Sachin and Dravid at their peak.Under Ganguly only one middle order spot was available and that was taken by Laxman.

Can you list our opening combos in the Ganguly era? I would take Gambhir-Sehwag Combo on a grassy pitch in full swinging overcast conditions with an old ball reverse swinging over any of the combos tried during the Ganguly era

[master22]

Let me give all the Dhoni bhakts an example......Here is the thing...when people rate Lloyd as one of the greatest captains ever....can we say he had a great team-Yes,Did he have a lot of trophies and accomplishments-Yes but then what seperates him than the rest? He brought people from diverse cultures/countries within the carribean towards a common goal and made them a world dominating side....Now I am not saying Ganguly is in the same league as Lloyd but just taking into consideration the time in Indian cricket Ganguly took over the reins and call it a coincidence if you want how guys like Yuvraj,Bhajji,Sehwag,Zak,Nehra,Pathan emerged around the same period automatically qualifies him to be our greatest captain.Never seen such a diverse talent-pool emerge under anyone else :hmmm:

By that logic Azhar is our greatest captain ever because under him the likes of VVS,Dravid and Ganguly emerged:haha: Performance and results matter the most and ganguly dint win a single series outside the subcontinent.Dhoni is easily the better captain.

[Sid]

Let Raina and Ahswin end up with the same career stats and accomplishments of Darty and Yuvi and then we will talk also btw...Bowling was always our problem but there are many other weaknesses we had in the Ganguly era which are masked now...Memory check-We did not have a world beating middle order in the Ganguly era but the foundation was laid for that Here is the thing...Let Dhoni contribute to Indian cricket by encouraging bowlers Fast/Spin and make us a formidable bowling unit-which going by the look of it will not happen in 100 years...then I will say Dhoni is probably one of the greatest captains not just in India but in the world

We didnt had a world class middle order under Gangu? lol wut Hmm for that bowling unit,along with encouragement some earth shattering talent has to emerge as well,which isnt in captain's hand.

[Number]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=276831 I'll take his words over a few who get touchy whenever his name is mentioned as they believe their favorite player doesn't get enough credit due to him.:winky:

[maniac]

Whole country hated Ganguly at one point of his career as a captain. There was so much anti Ganguly wave. I don't think Dhoni will ever get such overwhelmingly bad disapprovals like Ganguly did. Only guy who got such dispproval was Azharuddin. Lot of us forget that. Dhoni is carrying a huge stigma now. But aside from that he has done tremendously well for India. Taking his side to world no.1 spot and won world cup. For a team like Australia winning world cup is a run of the mill thing due to their work ethic imbibed in them. For us winning a world cup ia rare event. Whoever does that will have lot more credit than who fails at the hurdle.

See I am by no means Anti-Dhoni but this is what bothers me....As I said before Success in terms of ranking and trophies only measure a captain upto a certain extent.....Ganguly won and drew a series against an invincible australia which is a benchmark in itself... Also people bring Dhoni's victory in NZL and WI......You are following cricket from so long...so you tell me can you compare the NZL pitches in 2002 to 2008? Also Eng might have improved since Ganguly but they were still a force at home but at the same time WI in Ganguly's era was more competitive than now... Forget these measures....Dhoni was handed over a team from Kumble who took over from a mini-crisis so respect to Anil but Kumble did not find himself in a re-building process much like Ganguly did

[Sid]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=276831 I'll take his words over a few who get touchy whenever his name is mentioned as they believe their favorite player doesn't get enough credit due to him.:winky:

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1780343&postcount=44 From the same thread :winky:

[maniac]

We didnt had a world class middle order under Gangu? lol wut Hmm for that bowling unit,along with encouragement some earth shattering talent has to emerge as well,which isnt in captain's hand.

That is were captain's backing and grooming a player works...Ask Bhajji,Yuvi,Sehwag,Zak etc how Ganguly's backing gave them a world of confidence I am sure the likes of PK and Jaddu will tell you the same thing about Dhoni :cantstop: Also when I said worldclass...Lax,SRT and Dravid are still world class but when they hit their peak should be the benchmark...also so did Sehwag who kind of hit a purple patch in his 2nd innings under Dhoni

[GautiMaan]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1780343&postcount=44 From the same thread :winky:

so humble,Dada:adore:

[maniac]

By that logic Azhar is our greatest captain ever because under him the likes of VVS' date='Dravid and Ganguly emerged:haha: Performance and results matter the most and ganguly dint win a single series outside the subcontinent.Dhoni is easily the better captain.[/quote'] Emergence doesn't mean...Ganguly picked them of the streets like Imran Khan....in a way I am thankful our system doesn't work that way....I am talking about backing talent. Look at wasted talents like Kambli,Amre,etc during Azhar's era....now it is not Azhar's fault entirely....but as a captain he could have done a little bit more to back them up....Also Dravid's ODI career was almsot finished during Azhar's tenure and Laxman was in and out of theam and was asked to open where he wasn't even comfortable

[vvvslaxman]

See I am by no means Anti-Dhoni but this is what bothers me....As I said before Success in terms of ranking and trophies only measure a captain upto a certain extent.....Ganguly won and drew a series against an invincible australia which is a benchmark in itself... Also people bring Dhoni's victory in NZL and WI......You are following cricket from so long...so you tell me can you compare the NZL pitches in 2002 to 2008? Also Eng might have improved since Ganguly but they were still a force at home but at the same time WI in Ganguly's era was more competitive than now... Forget these measures....Dhoni was handed over a team from Kumble who took over from a mini-crisis so respect to Anil but Kumble did not find himself in a re-building process much like Ganguly did

Ganguly didn't exactly have set of brand new players or aging players. Everyone was in their prime form. None of the match winners Ganguly had made debut under him. It is not just the win i am talking about. I am talking about style of captainy. From strategy to man management he carried this unwarranted arrogance. If you believe that helped Indian players perform better you are free to believe that. But in my view he was largely selfish . He changed the batting order of everyone except himself. Laxman, Dravid, Sehwag, Yuvraj.. etc. I am never against a tough captain. I am against arrogant captain.

[Sid]

That is were captain's backing and grooming a player works...Ask Bhajji,Yuvi,Sehwag,Zak etc how Ganguly's backing gave them a world of confidence I am sure the likes of PK and Jaddu will tell you the same thing about Dhoni :cantstop: Also when I said worldclass...Lax,SRT and Dravid are still world class but when they hit their peak should be the benchmark...also so did Sehwag who kind of hit a purple patch in his 2nd innings under Dhoni

Zak is nothing to do with Gangu's backing or whatever.Zak is of some value to team thanks to his county stint with worcester.But I will agree about Veeru and Yuvi. And really abpout the middle order thing?All 3 Sachin,Dravid and Laxman were in their peak under Gangu.

[vvvslaxman]

Reason i remember about Ganguly is i wrote a 3 page blog (which i don't usually do) about how pathetically he was harmful to Indian cricket. There was this website "Ihateganguly.com" was launched. it was one of those phase Indian fans just wanted to see the end of him. 0-8 loss do you honestly believe Dhoni was 100% responsible? Much like you don't want to use his trophies as a measure you should not use his losses as well as a measure of his captaincy. He is not a flawless captain by any means. Very instinctive who doesn't attend team meetings . Ganguly on the other hand "aggressive" captain in the sense he would remove shirt and dance after win, he would come late for the toss (wow what an arrogance), he would ask opponents to tie his shoe laces often,... he kinda conned lot of us with his aggressive posture more than aggressive captaincy.

[vvvslaxman]

I like Gambhir and Dhoni when it comes to creditng the wins to all contributors. Both don't crave for hogging the limelight when they win. They let the team members savor the moment. Gambhir goes one steps ahead and sacrifices his man of the match award. If only Gauti gets rid of his super brain fart decisions (like not using a specialist bowler entire match) and hot temper on the field he could out do Dhoni. But i don't think that is going to happen as he si going through bad form as a player.

[Trichromatic]

We didnt had a world class middle order under Gangu? lol wut Hmm for that bowling unit,along with encouragement some earth shattering talent has to emerge as well,which isnt in captain's hand.

India's best team with Dravid, Sachin, Sehwag, Kumble, Bhajji in form played under the captaincy of Ganguly.

[Sid]

Reason i remember about Ganguly is i wrote a 3 page blog (which i don't usually do) about how pathetically he was harmful to Indian cricket. There was this website "Ihateganguly.com" was launched. it was one of those phase Indian fans just wanted to see the end of him. 0-8 loss do you honestly believe Dhoni was 100% responsible? Much like you don't want to use his trophies as a measure you should not use his losses as well as a measure of his captaincy. He is not a flawless captain by any means. Very instinctive who doesn't attend team meetings . Ganguly on the other hand "aggressive" captain in the sense he would remove shirt and dance after win' date=' he would come late for the toss (wow what an arrogance), he would ask opponents to tie his shoe laces often,... he kinda conned lot of us with his aggressive posture more than aggressive captaincy.[/quote'] I remember the time,it was 2004-05 season and this agressive thing is way too overhyped.Actually I respect Gangu the batsman who made a comeback on SA tour.No princely non sense or OTT aggression,just focussed on scoring runs consistently for the team.