ravishingravi Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Borrowed the title from Robel, but I sort of second his views. Zrx2odRYyX0&feature=g-all-c&ytsession=D7hp2pvURYO7yzEsmoWqPTqABkAvJEjHOTsnO7vCYNV1yfiGLsESsZMKC2MD6seRF8WTkx8gxacY_ZFBr2GgCtdz4UTW513JBYbUufbmMu9IeWXPopehjSpX3RskUTJDvMeDuAB9RDmoEGY9IXvJ0UcW-Z5qJ9T2CV0poUTAKrbpardxsG1xaWSIzM0jBV6p_vR29WuA22uKRqFfSAY6JMRZqWY-sVOHXO-Xcsg71G_j4p5dW05tLadCoqXOrrTpk2-qGTWGHn0dvkPlyhYJCRMhP3gqs3HKWUNGXekltnoMXAJ0y9HKsuZe5rVWammbwWGWjjWNO1ktM7aWvuF7wq6FDBHDfRgSBpMnL-9qO4JA93XRYdIwz1p0SLE0SNdRQ0Djw17Zuxp56jjG4Lc6HmYXF1XiWhw6pH8R4PQxs7gaBGVB_YHql-ZJDZadtw0dTkFOQpEl6XdtHK-0JQVLG6PA4Er7eNez2iWtKIB3N3VxWlR6Kmp9amlSaWxniyCu-bDqohtdd_k6NrTYn6sKJxgttHA3PDHApe02S1nFnXHaELCVVWBSWrTTlU5IsPo8puB6tjKgVO0FK5AliDqYeL9SCRY8Aba-p2EjvFnGLrLvBRIoLeYVRw
MCcricket Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Borrowed the title from Robel, but I sort of second his views. Zrx2odRYyX0&feature=g-all-c&ytsession=D7hp2pvURYO7yzEsmoWqPTqABkAvJEjHOTsnO7vCYNV1yfiGLsESsZMKC2MD6seRF8WTkx8gxacY_ZFBr2GgCtdz4UTW513JBYbUufbmMu9IeWXPopehjSpX3RskUTJDvMeDuAB9RDmoEGY9IXvJ0UcW-Z5qJ9T2CV0poUTAKrbpardxsG1xaWSIzM0jBV6p_vR29WuA22uKRqFfSAY6JMRZqWY-sVOHXO-Xcsg71G_j4p5dW05tLadCoqXOrrTpk2-qGTWGHn0dvkPlyhYJCRMhP3gqs3HKWUNGXekltnoMXAJ0y9HKsuZe5rVWammbwWGWjjWNO1ktM7aWvuF7wq6FDBHDfRgSBpMnL-9qO4JA93XRYdIwz1p0SLE0SNdRQ0Djw17Zuxp56jjG4Lc6HmYXF1XiWhw6pH8R4PQxs7gaBGVB_YHql-ZJDZadtw0dTkFOQpEl6XdtHK-0JQVLG6PA4Er7eNez2iWtKIB3N3VxWlR6Kmp9amlSaWxniyCu-bDqohtdd_k6NrTYn6sKJxgttHA3PDHApe02S1nFnXHaELCVVWBSWrTTlU5IsPo8puB6tjKgVO0FK5AliDqYeL9SCRY8Aba-p2EjvFnGLrLvBRIoLeYVRw I cannot stand this schmuck he likes to kiss Aussies and Poms asses and denigrates the asian and colored teams, Mark Nicklaus is a RAC!@#$ BAS!@##, personally I think given the very poor team Nasser Hussain was the best captain I have seen in a decade or two.Taylor had a very good team, atleast Allan Border had a average team to work with and he pickled up the players and build a good team.
Robelinda Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 I did like Hussain actually, but in all honesty I'm beginning to come around to the thinking that captaincy is overrated maybe 95% of the time. Taylor was great, no doubt, so were others in his era. Cronje is an interesting one, lost the plot totally when he played Australia, our guys knew how to get to him, and as it turned out, it paid off for us (and him too, LOL). Taylor had many tests where he had zero clue, but all captains have been through that, not much you can do when the bowlers just arent doing the job and executing plans (Fhoni's predicament during the 8-0). There were some terrific series for Taylor as captain, the best being 1995 in the West Indies where we successfully strangled Lara and didnt let him score a ton, im sure no aussie fans will forget this magic captaincy moment, was ridiculous at the time to see live, Lara was hammering us, then BOON.... [ame= Lara vs MARK TAYLOR - brilliant captaincy move 1995 2nd test Antigua - YouTube[/ame]
ravishingravi Posted October 28, 2012 Author Posted October 28, 2012 I did like Hussain actually, but in all honesty I'm beginning to come around to the thinking that captaincy is overrated maybe 95% of the time. Taylor was great, no doubt, so were others in his era. Cronje is an interesting one, lost the plot totally when he played Australia, our guys knew how to get to him, and as it turned out, it paid off for us (and him too, LOL). Taylor had many tests where he had zero clue, but all captains have been through that, not much you can do when the bowlers just arent doing the job and executing plans (Fhoni's predicament during the 8-0). There were some terrific series for Taylor as captain, the best being 1995 in the West Indies where we successfully strangled Lara and didnt let him score a ton, im sure no aussie fans will forget this magic captaincy moment, was ridiculous at the time to see live, Lara was hammering us, then BOON.... Honestly that WI win was all down to his captaincy. McDermott had pulled out of that series through injury. You have a very young untested McGrath. Warne who wasn't nearly the great bowler yet. Reifel and Julian. Now that is not a great attack at the time. To win against WI in WI is some serious effort.
Robelinda Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Also Damien Fleming pulled out just days before the 1st test, along with McDermott, our two best bowlers out, we had to use all the reserves. The media gave them no chance, they flew over Carl Rackemann as a replacement, who at the time was probably 35 or 36 yrs old, thats how desperate things were, but we didnt need him. McGrath and Julian, man at that stage it was a nightmare to have two loose cannons in the same side, but they both bowled brilliantly.
vamos_rafa Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 I did like Hussain actually, but in all honesty I'm beginning to come around to the thinking that captaincy is overrated maybe 95% of the time. Taylor was great, no doubt, so were others in his era. Cronje is an interesting one, lost the plot totally when he played Australia, our guys knew how to get to him, and as it turned out, it paid off for us (and him too, LOL). Taylor had many tests where he had zero clue, but all captains have been through that, not much you can do when the bowlers just arent doing the job and executing plans (Fhoni's predicament during the 8-0). There were some terrific series for Taylor as captain, the best being 1995 in the West Indies where we successfully strangled Lara and didnt let him score a ton, im sure no aussie fans will forget this magic captaincy moment, was ridiculous at the time to see live, Lara was hammering us, then BOON.... Totally agree with you Rob.Captaincy is pretty over rated on most occasions bar a few. As you said, a captain on most occasions does the same things it's just that sometimes they come off and look good or on other occasions looks stupid. As you gave Dhoni's example, an year back he was captain cool and now captain fool. On most occasions, it boils down to man management. There would be occasions when a captian can pull out with an average side or a tactically great move. Hussain coming up with leg side bowling to Sachin is tactical or Stephen Fleming or Martin Crowe were more tactical, which again worked as they had the right arsenal to do so. But, otherwise guys like Imran Khan or Ranatunga were more motivational one's.
The Outsider Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Steve Waugh for me. Lloyd and Crowe would be just behind.
maniac Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Steve Waugh for me. Lloyd and Crowe would be just behind. The team Lloyd had at his disposal including the reserves will always be held against him whenever captaincy debate comes up.
The Outsider Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 The team Lloyd had at his disposal including the reserves will always be held against him whenever captaincy debate comes up. Llyod built that team. Your argument would hold against Richards, but West Indies had been hammered in Australia and India had just chased a world record total against the team when he effected a turnaround for them.
maniac Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Steve Waugh and Stephen Fleming for me... Also Imran Khan as Boycott recently said whoever can handle a Pak team for the period of time he did and coming out of it successfully, automatically makes him special(not the exact words but he meant on the same lines)...also iI believe luck favored him in the 92 world cup but nevertheless was a great capt..
Lurker Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Llyod built that team. Your argument would hold against Richards' date=' but West Indies had been hammered in Australia and India had just chased a world record total against the team when he effected a turnaround for them.[/quote'] True that. Plus Clive Lloyd as a batsman would be a contender for many a great all time XI (never mind his electric fielding in the covers). Folks like Nasser Hussein and Hansie Cronje would have been pathetic in helmet-less era, almost Mike Breareley-sque, and I say this even though I liked Hansie Cronje. That coupled with the fact that Lloyd's stint essentially made West Indies team the most dominating, and yet most loved team everywhere puts him ahead of every Aussie skipper that has ever been, except Richie Benaud perhaps who was cut from the same cloth.
maniac Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Llyod built that team. Your argument would hold against Richards' date= but West Indies had been hammered in Australia and India had just chased a world record total against the team when he effected a turnaround for them. I agree....but here is where the whole 'Matrix' starts Lloyd and Imran are highly rated as great captains because they had enough pull to select their own teams....with all due respect to their incredible eye for talent....but in a way weren't they aided by the fact that their boards were kinda dysfunctional? Now when the same argument is applied to Ganguly....people say how he fluked out given that so many talented players burst on to the scene at the same time given how BCCI controls Indian cricket with an iron fist.....When Shri Mahendar Singh Dhoni ji keeps playing the likes of Jaddu,Raina(in tests) and some other great talen,t the blames falls on BCCI and not the Kuptaan. My Point is I rate on-field captaincy a little more than the team-building skills which is where the likes of Steve Waugh,Fleming and even Mark Taylor are slightly ahead
Crookbond Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 I do not rate Steve Waugh that highly. I rate Border, Taylor better than Steve. If I had to pick one captain, I would go with Hansie Cronje.
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