Unless Kashmir issue is solved, Mumbai-like attacks always a possibility: Imran Khan

[panther]

dont under estimate the Hindu religon.it is a beautiful way of living.but we should accept that way forward is secularism.i know abrahmic religon dont believe in "eshwar allah tero naam" but hinduism is such a huge sponge that all these rhings dont show up.i think QUALITY will always beat QUANTITY.most muslims and most of the rural hindus are very very very very religous.but what can we do? i expect a huge world war btw ISLAM and WESTERN WORLD in future when islamic population reaches >20% in europe,,,BUT SECULARISM IS THE WAY FORWARD TO INDIA:two_thumbs_up:

Islam in Europe[1] <1% (Armenia, Belarus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Ukraine) 1%-2% (Andorra, Croatia) 2%-4% (Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain) 4%-5% (Denmark, Greece, Liechtenstein, United Kingdom) 5%-10% (Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland) 10%-20% (Bulgaria, Georgia, Montenegro, Russia) 20%-30% (Cyprus) 30%-40% (Macedonia) 40%-50% (Bosnia and Herzegovina) 80%-90% (Albania) 90%-95% (Kosovo) 95%-100% (Turkey, Azerbaijan) The Muslim population has grown from 1.65 million to 2.87 million since 2001, say researchers. What does this mean for liberal Britain? http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100069830/the-muslim-population-has-grown-from-1-65-million-to-2-87-million-since-2001-say-researchers-what-does-this-mean-for-liberal-britain/

[exams]

Islam in Europe[1] <1% (Armenia, Belarus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Ukraine) 1%-2% (Andorra, Croatia) 2%-4% (Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain) 4%-5% (Denmark, Greece, Liechtenstein, United Kingdom) 5%-10% (Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland) 10%-20% (Bulgaria, Georgia, Montenegro, Russia) 20%-30% (Cyprus) 30%-40% (Macedonia) 40%-50% (Bosnia and Herzegovina) 80%-90% (Albania) 90%-95% (Kosovo) 95%-100% (Turkey, Azerbaijan) The Muslim population has grown from 1.65 million to 2.87 million since 2001, say researchers. What does this mean for liberal Britain? but both europe iand islam are violent.they will fight out within themselves:cantstop: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100069830/the-muslim-population-has-grown-from-1-65-million-to-2-87-million-since-2001-say-researchers-what-does-this-mean-for-liberal-britain/

they will resolve btw themselves.both are violent

[Crookbond]

Not accurate enough. Correct definition of atheist/atheism is reject of belief(s) in the existence of deities. There is a difference between rejection of belief and claiming outrightly that xyz doesn't exit.

Fine but it is important to make a distinction between a free thinker & an atheist.

Not sure if this serious.

I have explained the latter with regards to the former if you can tell me what you know which I do not I will be happy to change my stand.

[SLICKR392]

Well' date=' I understand what you are saying - "force" is not the right word. [b']It is more like ransom - do this or this will happen. You still have the choice not to do it.

Matter of fact people "are forced" to convert into certain individuals belief or may be his religion. There are many such cases where one has to convert due to certain terms, i.e. converting them against their will.

[Crookbond]

Matter of fact people "are forced" to convert into certain individuals belief or may be his religion. There are many such cases where one has to convert due to certain terms, i.e. converting them against their will.

No - you still have a choice. The problem is due to misunderstanding faith or religion. For example, if you are converting because you want a job or you are offered a square meal a day; you still have a choice not to convert. However, in this case you are deciding to convert for materialistic gain (there will be other "benefits" as well). I must add, that your point a little bit tangential to the discussion (which is already derailed and I'm a stake holder for it too). We were talking about if religion "forces" you or not while the one you mention has got nothing to do with religion but people using religion as a weapon. Like I said earlier, you always have a choice; if you think it is wrong do not do it but you will have to bear the brunt for sticking up to your choice. The worst part is when people make a choice and crib about how they were "forced" to do so BUT in fact had an option albeit a difficult endurance.

[The Outsider]

I find framing this issue in ethical terms an escape to simplicity. Kashmir is a matter of great strategic importance to Pakistan because the source of much of Pakistan's river water is located in the region.

This, and only this. It is just basic game of civilization/society trying to secure natural resources necessary for future.

Kuch bhi kya? Rivers in the Indian subcontinent derive 90% of their total discharge from groundwater and not from the origins and glaciers.

[Prakat]

@Outsider Lol right back at you. Kuch bhi? Name one river from Indus, Sutlej, Ravi, Beas, Yamuna, Ganga, Bhramaputra - the rivers from the region - which is fed by groundwater. As for the geopolitics of Kashmir waters here's some information: The headwaters of the Indus River are located in Kashmir and, as explained above, upstream countries have a huge advantage over downstream countries. Fortunately, the Indus Water Treaty has prevented open military conflict, however the treaty is once again threatened by Indian plans to build hydroelectric dams in this area. The Indus River provides water to over 80% of Pakistan’s 54 million acres of irrigated land, and farming activities provide 21% of the country's GDP (The Economist, 2011). 10 Sept 2012 http://www.aquaknow.net/en/news/hydropolitics-rising-tension-pakistan-and-india-over-indus-river

[The Outsider]

@Outsider Lol right back at you. Kuch bhi? Name one river from Indus, Sutlej, Ravi, Beas, Yamuna, Ganga, Bhramaputra - the rivers from the region - which is fed by groundwater.

All of them actually. Here is an earlier post of mine which describes the study on Ganga: http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=953757&postcount=2

At Haridwar, the glacial content is 90%, which goes down to 25% at Kanpur, and 1% at Patna for the Ganga.

[maniac]

None of the terrorists who came to India had anything to do with Kashmir or had any Kashmiri roots....how come no one has brought that up yet:hmmm:

[rageaddict]

@Outsider Lol right back at you. Kuch bhi? Name one river from Indus, Sutlej, Ravi, Beas, Yamuna, Ganga, Bhramaputra - the rivers from the region - which is fed by groundwater. As for the geopolitics of Kashmir waters here's some information: The headwaters of the Indus River are located in Kashmir and, as explained above, upstream countries have a huge advantage over downstream countries. Fortunately, the Indus Water Treaty has prevented open military conflict, however the treaty is once again threatened by Indian plans to build hydroelectric dams in this area. The Indus River provides water to over 80% of PakistanÃÔ 54 million acres of irrigated land, and farming activities provide 21% of the country's GDP (The Economist, 2011). 10 Sept 2012 http://www.aquaknow.net/en/news/hydropolitics-rising-tension-pakistan-and-india-over-indus-river

It maybe true that deep down for Pakistan the fight for Kashmir is only for its resources . But whats the reason behind the support of Pakistan among Kashmiri people ? Will the Kashmiris lose their right over the resources if they side with India ? No matter how much of a materialistic look you may give to this problem and pretend to look the other way around , it wont change the fact that the support among locals is due to religious affiliation . Pakistan wouldnt have managed to gather any support among the locals if J&k was a 100% Hindu State and even now most of the support for freedom exists among Muslim Kashmir in the North and no support whatsoever among Hindu Jammu in the South .

[rageaddict]

None of the terrorists who came to India had anything to do with Kashmir or had any Kashmiri roots....how come no one has brought that up yet:hmmm:

Have you not heard about the concept of Muslim Brotherhood ?

[Prakat]

All of them actually. Here is an earlier post of mine which describes the study on Ganga: http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=953757&postcount=2

You're being disingenuous. You claimed 90% of rivers in India were fed by groundwater. That is ridiculous. I don't know what you are citing but it is immaterial. The article mentions that the Indus river waters 80% of Pakistan's farmed land. This was the point I was making.

[The Outsider]

You're being disingenuous. You claimed 90% of rivers in India were fed by groundwater. That is ridiculous. I don't know what you are citing but it is immaterial.

Disingenuous? Ridiculous? Look, studies have shown that by the time Ganga reaches Kanpur 75% of it's water is ground water based and 25% is of glacial origin. By the time it reaches Patna, the numbers are 99% and 1%. Glacial water makes up very little content of the rivers. How is this information immaterial?

The article mentions that the Indus river waters 80% of Pakistan's farmed land. This was the point I was making.

Now, this is an example of immaterial. What's relevant is not how much of Pakistan's farmed land is dependent on the Indus. The relevant bit is how much of Indus' water is glacial and ground water based.

[Prakat]

Right so let's get into this. What is the source of these numbers? Glacial melt is the bulk of the volume, the river is fed by more streams and small rivers on its course to the plains. The groundwater is the rainwater run off which adds to the river considerably, causing overflow, wetlands and the occasional flood in the plains and delta region. But that is a monsoon phenomenon and isolated for only a part of the year. During the long Indian summer the Himalayan rivers are all from glacial melt.

[The Outsider]

Right so let's get into this. What is the source of these numbers?

Research. I'll try to look up the paper for you if you are interested. The method essentially relies on isotope based study to segregate the contribution from glaciers and ground water. By the time Ganga reaches Kanpur, ground water is by far the dominant water source.

Glacial melt is the bulk of the volume, the river is fed by more streams and small rivers on its course to the plains. The groundwater is the rainwater run off which adds to the river considerably, causing overflow, wetlands and the occasional flood in the plains and delta region. But that is a monsoon phenomenon and isolated for only a part of the year. During the long Indian summer the Himalayan rivers are all from glacial melt.

http://dels.nas.edu/Report/Himalayan-Glaciers-Climate-Change-Water-Resources/13449 That's not true.

Overall, retreating glaciers over the next several decades are unlikely to cause significant changes in water availability at lower elevations, which depend primarily on monsoon rains. However, for high elevation areas, current glacier retreat rates, if they continue, could alter streamflow in some basins. Assuming annual precipitation in the form of snow and freezing rain remains the same, the loss of water stored as glacial ice will likely not change the amount of meltwater that supplements rivers and streams each summer.

[maniac]

Have you not heard about the concept of Muslim Brotherhood ?

I am talking in context to what Imran Khan said

[Prakat]

@Outsider Again, irrelevant because this discussion concerns the Indus and you are talking about the Ganges. But have you considered the effect of the two dams upstream that divert most of the meltwater on measurements downstream where the river is clearly in decay and doesn't show much signs of crossing Kanpur on its own. Now, if it turns out that this is the case with the Indus as well, a river that has traditionally irrigated the Punjab-Sind Indus basin then the reasons to control the flow of the river from the source become more critical. Which was my point that "Kashmir is a matter of great strategic importance to Pakistan because the source of much of Pakistan's river water is located in the region."

[The Outsider]

@Outsider Again, irrelevant because this discussion concerns the Indus and you are talking about the Ganges.

The link I provided is for a general study of Himalayan rivers from the National Academy of Sciences, not specific to the Ganges.

But have you considered the effect of the two dams upstream that divert most of the meltwater on measurements downstream where the river is clearly in decay and doesn't show much signs of crossing Kanpur on its own.

You should read the report to look at the exhaustive work done to get to the conclusions.

Now, if it turns out that this is the case with the Indus as well, a river that has traditionally irrigated the Punjab-Sind Indus basin then the reasons to control the flow of the river from the source become more critical. Which was my point that "Kashmir is a matter of great strategic importance to Pakistan because the source of much of Pakistan's river water is located in the region."

It's irrelevant because the vast majority of the water in Indus does not come from the glaciers, which is the part India can control. As concluded in the report the vast majority of water in Himalayan rivers comes from ground water and monsoon, which India cannot control. I've clearly shown from the NAS report worked on by leading experts in the field that much of the source of Pakistan's river water is not glacial in nature and you keep on harping on the same point, which has been clearly negated.

[Stuge]

Btw Athiesm isn't really growing in India it's just that most youngsters think its more cool to be an atheist . At least that's what my experience By the time when they get married they usually are forced shed their athiest tag

its about marriage with reality .

[Old guy]

its about marriage with reality .

:two_thumbs_up: