The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 ^ Haven't lived in Delhi' date=' so I'm not sure of the extent of policing and where it is inadequate. The crimes though can occur anywhere, in the private bus when its off duty like the one in question, in the metro if a lady is cornered (men apparently use the ladies coach as per some comments), kidnapped from a street in a private car etc. Are we looking for a police state then to prevent these crimes ?[/quote'] Look (:punter:), the kind of crime that happened recently can happen with any number of precautions. Or the other ones you are referring to - even in the safest city of the world it's not entirely safe to jump in an off duty bus or hitch rides from strangers, specially at night. What I am talking about is reduction in culture of these kind of crimes and not this specific one. The main problem in Delhi is the eve teasing and harassment "culture" which does not make the front pages like this rape case did. It's about women feeling more secure traveling in public transport and other passengers calling it out in the knowledge that there is a safety net in place. As I said in my first post, having security guards would not have prevented what happened in the off duty bus, but it can certainly help in curbing a lot of sexual harassment which happens everyday and in practically every bus of the city.
maniac Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 How about making Prostitution legal in some states...regulate it...might also help with Aids prevention,etc Atleast it might reduce a lot of sxually opressed despos
Lurker Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 What do you expect the common citizen to do? A few that I can think of right on top of my head: a) How about treating girl child same as boy child? It is kind of odd to hear in this day and age, often from people from well educated, affluent family that they see it everyday, or saw it everyday while gowing up? And who is going to take that action? Cops? Politicians? Or the citizens themselves? b) How about putting an end to mainstream MC/BC as well? Remember the whole Harbhajan Singh - Andrew Symonds saga? How the entire defense was based on "He did not say Monkey, he said Teri Maan ki" as if somehow that made sense! I wonder how many middle class folks , specially women, cringed everytime they head the news reader some up with a "Harbhajan Singh ne kaha hai ke unhone Teri Maan ki kaha tha"? And didnt we see the entire North Indian (read Punjabi-Haryana-Delhi-Western UP belt) all go" Ah no big deal it is only Teri Maa ki". Now dont go ahead and deduce that since Bhajji abused Symonds girls are being raped, my assertion is I personally dont expect a society to treat woman respectfully if they are been abused (un)knowingly in every household.
Lurker Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 No, it's not. Most in North India give as much a damn about being called BC, as they would about being called haraami in some other part of the country. If it's among close friends, it's of course all fun and laughter, and the typical reaction is as any abuse would attract anywhere in the country - some would ignore it, some would give back, some would pick up a fight. No one actually visualizes the image of himself getting it along with his sister or mother when abused in those words and goes to the literal meaning of it. It's what it is - an abuse, just like haraami or chewtiya. And maybe they should. Why would you want to abuse your own brother and call him a BC is beyond me. And no I am not going to make an effort to try to understand that. Just like folks dont "try" to make an effort to understand the N-word. By the way, how many cities in the world, specially Capital Cities, do you know of that are so entrenched in this menace that they are often referred to as MC-BC city? Can you find me some names please :winky:
KhanSaab Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 How about making Prostitution legal in some states...regulate it...might also help with Aids prevention,etc Atleast it might reduce a lot of sxually opressed despos Good suggestion. This kind of outside the box thinking is required as mere laws have never solved any serious problem in India.
The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 A few that I can think of right on top of my head: a) How about treating girl child same as boy child? It is kind of odd to hear in this day and age, often from people from well educated, affluent family that they see it everyday, or saw it everyday while gowing up? And who is going to take that action? Cops? Politicians? Or the citizens themselves? And that's a huge problem. No wonder we have 50 million missing women in India. But in no way is that confined to North India or Delhi. As far as dowry is concerned in my experience there is no single state worse than Andhra, hardly a part of North India. North India has it's own problems with female infanticide and gender discrimination, which need to be addressed in urgency. b) How about putting an end to mainstream MC/BC as well? Remember the whole Harbhajan Singh - Andrew Symonds saga? How the entire defense was based on "He did not say Monkey, he said Teri Maan ki" as if somehow that made sense! I wonder how many middle class folks , specially women, cringed everytime they head the news reader some up with a "Harbhajan Singh ne kaha hai ke unhone Teri Maan ki kaha tha"? And didnt we see the entire North Indian (read Punjabi-Haryana-Delhi-Western UP belt) all go" Ah no big deal it is only Teri Maa ki". Now dont go ahead and deduce that since Bhajji abused Symonds girls are being raped, my assertion is I personally dont expect a society to treat woman respectfully if they are been abused (un)knowingly in every household. Yaar, I am speechless with your obsession of MC/BC with regards to this discussion. Firstly, the trivial example you put up - everyone said it's no big deal because that's how cricket is these days, rightly or wrongly. Hogg called someone a ba.stard in that same series - how is that any worse than Teri Maa Ki? Cricketers abuse and the 90s-00s Indian cricketers would rank pretty low in the amount and level of abuse dished out. Since you want to analyze gaalis in all their detail, let's do it. Let's assume Harbhajan said, "Teri Maa Ki Choooot". Isn't that factually correct? It is. Now let's analyze what Hogg said, "Ba.stard" - what's the factual nature and proof of that?
KhanSaab Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 By the way, how many cities in the world, specially Capital Cities, do you know of that are so entrenched in this menace that they are often referred to as MC-BC city? Can you find me some names please :winky: As I said earlier this is because of the demographic shift in delhi. A city known for aap, janaab is now known for mc,bc.
ravishingravi Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Well if cutting out MC / BC from lingo is the best solution we can come up with followed by Sushil Kumar's insightful analysis, we are in trouble
The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 And maybe they should. Why would you want to abuse your own brother and call him a BC is beyond me. And no I am not going to make an effort to try to understand that. Just like folks dont "try" to make an effort to understand the N-word. Why? Because it has no meaning whatsoever, it's a generic abuse. Nothing to do with anyone's sister even though it can be literally translated that way. You think these are derogatory to women and you posted some other abuses which you thought were not: 1. Bhadwa - Pimp of women 2. Randibaaz - One who fracks prostitutes (women) 3. Saala - Fracker of your sister (woman) Please tell me how the above abuses are putting chaar chand on women in Bihar and non North Indian states? By the way, how many cities in the world, specially Capital Cities, do you know of that are so entrenched in this menace that they are often referred to as MC-BC city? Can you find me some names please :winky: I can find a lot of things worse in a lot of capitals of the world than calling someone MC/BC.
Lurker Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Yaar, I am speechless with your obsession of MC/BC with regards to this discussion. Firstly, the trivial example you put up - everyone said it's no big deal because that's how cricket is these days, rightly or wrongly. Hogg called someone a ba.stard in that same series - how is that any worse than Teri Maa Ki? Cricketers abuse and the 90s-00s Indian cricketers would rank pretty low in the amount and level of abuse dished out. Since you want to analyze gaalis in all their detail, let's do it. Let's assume Harbhajan said, "Teri Maa Ki Choooot". Isn't that factually correct? It is. Now let's analyze what Hogg said, "Ba.stard" - what's the factual nature and proof of that? Again, that was one angle to this whole scenario. Who am I to say ke bhaiyya kya gaali do kya nahin do lol. I personally wouldnt want my city to be synonymous with MC/BC and I definitely see some co-relation. Aage janta ki marzi...:hatsoff:
Tiger80 Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Having a security guard on each bus can get rid of a lot of the problem - not talking about the extreme and bizarre case in Delhi' date=' but from the general perspective of reducing harassment and eve teasing, and just giving the public a general sense of comfort.[/quote'] Having a security guard is not at all practical solution.First which type of security guard you are talking about A well trained ex army personal or an ordinary seciruty guard which you normally see .Most of security guards in Delhi NCR are very poorly trained .They even lack the physique to do the job.Infact if you ask any person to pick a fight with security guard or a driver - conducter then most probably he will choose security guard as bus drivers and conducters are very well known *******.So if bus drivers and conducters want they can easily beat the hell out of eve teasers but the problem is they turn blind eye How could another 5 -6 inches person in bus will help ? An ex army personal with pistol could help but they are very expensive and even if rule is implemented chances are very few buses will hire them. Also the cost of hiring may shoot bus fare quite high which will become unpopular among people
The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Again, that was one angle to this whole scenario. Who am I to say ke bhaiyya kya gaali do kya nahin do lol. I personally wouldnt want my city to be synonymous with MC/BC and I definitely see some co-relation. Aage janta ki marzi...:hatsoff: But you are happy with your city being synonymous with randibaaz, bhadwa, and saale all directed at women? Main kaun si janta. I am not even from Delhi/Punjab but since I've lived there for a long time have an understanding of what the societal norms are. All I am saying is that MC/BC does not in any way equate or is responsible for the crimes you are seeing. If you were to put a chip in everyone's tongue which would zap that person every time he uttered a MC/BC it would make no difference. Or even if you could eradicate the MC/BC from their brains it would make no difference. The problem is much further away than MC/BC.
The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Having a security guard is not at all practical solution.First which type of security guard you are talking about A well trained ex army personal or an ordinary seciruty guard which you normally see .Most of security guards in Delhi NCR are very poorly trained .They even lack the physique to do the job.Infact if you ask any person to pick a fight with security guard or a driver - conducter then most probably he will choose security guard as bus drivers and conducters are very well known *******.So if bus drivers and conducters want they can easily beat the hell out of eve teasers but the problem is they turn blind eye How could another 5 -6 inches person in bus will help ? An ex army personal with pistol could help but they are very expensive and even if rule is implemented chances are very few buses will hire them. Also the cost of hiring may shoot bus fare quite high which will become unpopular among people Forget about an Army trained guy, just a normal security guard is enough for most of these luccha lafangas. Tell me how many times have you seen bottom pinching or things like that in a store in Connaught Place which has guards - just the presence is a deterrent. Is it going to stop all rape and harassment against women? Obviously not, but it's a decent first step towards the solution, IMO.
The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 I personally wouldnt want my city to be synonymous with MC/BC and I definitely see some co-relation. Aage janta ki marzi...:hatsoff: And just to emphasize my point - you will most likely see higher consumption of Butter Chicken in Delhi and rapes. That's a correlation, but not a causation.
Lurker Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 But you are happy with your city being synonymous with randibaaz, bhadwa, and saale all directed at women? Main kaun si janta. I am not even from Delhi/Punjab but since I've lived there for a long time have an understanding of what the societal norms are. All I am saying is that MC/BC does not in any way equate or is responsible for the crimes you are seeing. If you were to put a chip in everyone's tongue which would zap that person every time he uttered a MC/BC it would make no difference. Or even if you could eradicate the MC/BC from their brains it would make no difference. The problem is much further away than MC/BC. lol..Janta khush was a general statement bhai, not for you :winky: After a while most discussions like this do tend to get preachy, specially if one is not directly involved (read from the same town etc). So instead of preaching what Delhi/North India should/shouldnt do I let a , agar janta khush to hum bhi khush. Back to your question on gaalis. bhadwa, randibaaj are NOT related to one's immediate family, is it? Saala is of course. But is saala as direct as BC? I dont think so. I cant speak first hand, will have to depend on a woman to explain, but my thoughts are that if a girl passes by two brothers giving MC/BC to each other, compared to someone who is spouting bhadwa, she would perhaps cringe more on the first. And I definitely dont see any Indian cricket player calling opposition player bhadwa :hysterical:
The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Back to your question on gaalis. bhadwa, randibaaj are NOT related to one's immediate family, is it? Saala is of course. But is saala as direct as BC? I dont think so. So, are we now talking about meri behen suhaagan, tumhaari behen rundi kind of arguments? We should be talking about the general respect a society has for women rather than what they have for their relatives, right? I cant speak first hand, will have to depend on a woman to explain, but my thoughts are that if a girl passes by two brothers giving MC/BC to each other, compared to someone who is spouting bhadwa, she would perhaps cringe more on the first. It depends on the society. And I definitely dont see any Indian cricket player calling opposition player bhadwa :hysterical: Jaddu bhai playing test cricket for India is itself an abuse - ab kya BC, MC rnadibaaz meri g.aand loge?
nballa Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 lol what laws can be enforced when the cops themselves are participants in the acts. lets face it, its a country full of savages with stone age mentalities.
The Outsider Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 lol what laws can be enforced when the cops themselves are participants in the acts. lets face it, its a country full of savages with stone age mentalities. And where in the world are cops brought from outside the society?
vvvslaxman Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 perform a sex change operation and turn them into female.
Clarke Posted December 19, 2012 Posted December 19, 2012 How about making Prostitution legal in some states...regulate it...might also help with Aids prevention,etc Atleast it might reduce a lot of sxually opressed despos Good suggestion. This kind of outside the box thinking is required as mere laws have never solved any serious problem in India. I've read opinions in the 90s in TOI/IE etc suggesting the same, its not a new idea. You guys do realize the "regulating" of the prostitution business involves new laws being crafted and more importantly being enforced, and that's besides the major cultural shift being forced via legislation. There's a lot more of regulating that needs to happen based on existing laws before we move in the suggested direction.
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