Is dhoni playing like sachin?

[CG]

If you have cricketing sense' date=' you would know that an opener and a no. 6/7 batsman can't hit the same no. of centuries. In fact, the finishers should get more credit for victories in ODIs. The reason why he is averaging more is because he finishes off matches for us and thus remains not out which boosts his average(as you say). If thats the case, why not other no.6/no.7 batsmen of other countries have averages like that? BTW< I don't think we can really compare an opener and a middle order batsman.[/quote'] What? Micheal hussey averages 51 for australia Abdv Averages 49 for southafrica Morgan averages 40 Misbah ul haq averages 41. Oviously dhoni is better than them,But with hussey,abdv it was a close race.But now one is retired and one has moved to toporder.

[CG]

And Dhoni averages 76 in victories.

You are surely not comparing sachins Averaging over decades with dhoni.:giggle:

[BeautifulGame]

its 75.81 not 76. sachin scored 33 centuries as the contribution and scored a century in every 7 matches how many tons did dhoni score in winning matches ? how many of those runs came against a real world class bowling unit ? thing is he is a lower middle order batsman and thus he always bats in the last 10 or 15 overs therefore getting an opportunity to stay not out which boosts his avrg also he has only scored 37 runs per match in the winning matches

And how many matches have Sachin finished of for India like Dhoni has done ?

[Laaloo]

And how many matches have Sachin finished of for India like Dhoni has done ?

0

[JaFanatic]

And how many matches have Sachin finished of for India like Dhoni has done ?

37 that too as an opener

[Sidhoni]

^37! Is that his career notouts? Then most of them would have been in first innings.

[JaFanatic]

^37! Is that his career notouts? Then most of them would have been in first innings.

no not outs in winning matches

[JaFanatic]

^37! Is that his career notouts? Then most of them would have been in first innings.

batting second he avrgs 55.45 with 28 not outs in the winning matches

[Number]

^Also in tournament finals he avges 50+ while chasing.

[Marut]

Richards is probably the best ODI player ever. To score at a S/R of 90+ during his era (where 60-70 was the norm) and to average 47 in his era is mind boggling. Sachin takes the second spot due to sheer strength of numbers and amazing match winning performances. Any one else, including Dhoni, can be placed only after them.

[Muloghonto]

Richards is probably the best ODI player ever. To score at a S/R of 90+ during his era (where 60-70 was the norm) and to average 47 in his era is mind boggling. Sachin takes the second spot due to sheer strength of numbers and amazing match winning performances. Any one else' date=' including Dhoni, can be placed only after them.[/quote'] I am sorry, as much as I am a Viv fan, Sachin has surpassed him as an ODI batsman. Yes, Viv's numbers were more staggering for his years than Sachin's. But Sachin too, has been the clear-cut #1 ODI batsman of his era as Viv was, with the added feature that Sachin has pulled a Viv far more often than Viv did, over a far greater timespan. Viv ultimately was mindbogglingly good for six years.79-85. His numbers during this period are unreal: he played nearly a 100 matches, scored at almost 58 average and 90 strike rate, with 7 tons and almost 30 halfers. Either side of these six years, Viv was top notch, but not a huge standout over the field ( he scored almost 3000 runs at an average of 38 with 4 more tons and IIRC 10 more halfers in) and he declined precipitously when his hand-eye coordination dimmed in his late 30s. Make no mistake, Viv at his purple patch was probably the 'Bradman numbers' of ODI cricket in context ( when 60 overs were normal & run rate of 4-4.5 were competetive, with RR of 5.00 hard even for the mighty Windies, Richards scored at a Dhoni-like clip and average) and based on that alone, i will say he is clearly the 2nd best ODI bat ever, but Sachin brought what nobody did- topline numbers day in & day out for over 15 years in ODI cricket, in batsman-friendly era as well as the earlier era of balanced pitches and ultimately, Sachin is the best ODI batsman ever.

[Jersey #10]

are you farking kidding me? Now you're comparing Sachin with Dhoni? Faak...Dhoni doesn't even deserve his name in the sentence with him.

[The Outsider]

Richards' performances in World Cup Finals pulls him ever so slightly ahead of Tendulkar in my view. Besides that not much to choose between them.

[Jersey #10]

Looked at the overall ODI stats. Having a criteria of minimum 2000 runs and a batting average of 40+ List of Top Oder batsmen (1-4) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax2=4;batting_positionval2=batting_position;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;qualmin1=40;qualmin2=2000;qualval1=batting_average;qualval2=runs;template=results;type=batting 39 batsmen meet that criteria List of Middle Order Batsmen(no 5 and below) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmin2=5;batting_positionval2=batting_position;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;qualmin1=40;qualmin2=2000;qualval1=batting_average;qualval2=runs;template=results;type=batting 8 batsmen meet the criteria. Gives you some insight on where scoring is easier and where it is relatively tougher.

What bullshrit is this?

[Jersey #10]

Richards' performances in World Cup Finals pulls him ever so slightly ahead of Tendulkar in my view. Besides that not much to choose between them.

So performances in rest of the WC matches don't count? only finals count now. Just magically make it to the finals and then it counts. good logic :girly1:

[Do_Piaza]

Dhoni is best in this lineup without a doubt. There is something very unIndian about him , the way he plays calculative and fearless and all.

[Marut]

I am sorry, as much as I am a Viv fan, Sachin has surpassed him as an ODI batsman. Yes, Viv's numbers were more staggering for his years than Sachin's. But Sachin too, has been the clear-cut #1 ODI batsman of his era as Viv was, with the added feature that Sachin has pulled a Viv far more often than Viv did, over a far greater timespan. Viv ultimately was mindbogglingly good for six years.79-85. His numbers during this period are unreal: he played nearly a 100 matches, scored at almost 58 average and 90 strike rate, with 7 tons and almost 30 halfers. Either side of these six years, Viv was top notch, but not a huge standout over the field ( he scored almost 3000 runs at an average of 38 with 4 more tons and IIRC 10 more halfers in) and he declined precipitously when his hand-eye coordination dimmed in his late 30s. Make no mistake, Viv at his purple patch was probably the 'Bradman numbers' of ODI cricket in context ( when 60 overs were normal & run rate of 4-4.5 were competetive, with RR of 5.00 hard even for the mighty Windies, Richards scored at a Dhoni-like clip and average) and based on that alone, i will say he is clearly the 2nd best ODI bat ever, but Sachin brought what nobody did- topline numbers day in & day out for over 15 years in ODI cricket, in batsman-friendly era as well as the earlier era of balanced pitches and ultimately, Sachin is the best ODI batsman ever.

90 strike rate for his era is like 120 for today, a T20ish strike rate almost. That is why Viv was far ahead of his peers than Sachin to his peers. Sachin was an opener for most of his career, where he would get the opportunity to play very long ODI innings. Viv usually came at 2 down, which means his opportunity to make big hundreds decreases by at least 25%. Sachin himself could not make much as an non opener (averages only 33 at a s/r of 78 there) and he was a big success only when he was promoted to the top. Whenever Viv came one down, his career batting average is a colossal 57 over 52 matches, showing that he did have lesser opportunities to score at 2 down. Viv's 189 is perhaps the best ODI knock ever, where he added 106 unfinished runs for the 10th wicket and rescued WI from a precarious 166/9 to a commanding 272/9. Regarding Viv's overall numbers, they did not play so many ODIs then, and there was not much Viv could do about it. In whatever opportunities he had, his figures are absolutely beastly.

[JaFanatic]

90 strike rate for his era is like 120 for today, a T20ish strike rate almost. That is why Viv was far ahead of his peers than Sachin to his peers. Sachin was an opener for most of his career, where he would get the opportunity to play very long ODI innings. Viv usually came at 2 down, which means his opportunity to make big hundreds decreases by at least 25%. Sachin himself could not make much as an non opener (averages only 33 at a s/r of 78 there) and he was a big success only when he was promoted to the top. Whenever Viv came one down, his career batting average is a colossal 57 over 52 matches, showing that he did have lesser opportunities to score at 2 down. Viv's 189 is perhaps the best ODI knock ever, where he added 106 unfinished runs for the 10th wicket and rescued WI from a precarious 166/9 to a commanding 272/9. Regarding Viv's overall numbers, they did not play so many ODIs then, and there was not much Viv could do about it. In whatever opportunities he had, his figures are absolutely beastly.

if he played without breaks he would have failed and regarding the comparison they are from different eras so its illogical to compare the legends of different eras also sachin is one of the greatest batsmen of odis dont compare him to richards

[Muloghonto]

90 strike rate for his era is like 120 for today, a T20ish strike rate almost. That is why Viv was far ahead of his peers than Sachin to his peers. Sachin was an opener for most of his career, where he would get the opportunity to play very long ODI innings. Viv usually came at 2 down, which means his opportunity to make big hundreds decreases by at least 25%. Sachin himself could not make much as an non opener (averages only 33 at a s/r of 78 there) and he was a big success only when he was promoted to the top. Whenever Viv came one down, his career batting average is a colossal 57 over 52 matches, showing that he did have lesser opportunities to score at 2 down. Viv's 189 is perhaps the best ODI knock ever, where he added 106 unfinished runs for the 10th wicket and rescued WI from a precarious 166/9 to a commanding 272/9. Regarding Viv's overall numbers, they did not play so many ODIs then, and there was not much Viv could do about it. In whatever opportunities he had, his figures are absolutely beastly.

Actually, Viv came mostly 1 down during his purple patch six years. As far as Sachin not hacking it as a middle order bat, you must remember that Sachin was extremely young when he made the team and he played he first 3-4 years as 'nurturing future potential' more so than solid performances. Most of Sachin's middle order days are from his early years and he's done fine in middle order roles post 94, when he really blossomed as an allround batsman. Since then, he's batted in the middle order 45 times, averaged over 37 and scored 4 tons. Considering that this is not his normal position and he didn't get any sort of extended run in the middle order ( he batted there in fits and spurts), this is an excellent record. As i said, I consider Viv the 2nd best ODI batsman ever and you won't find me arguing over any other batsman save Tendy when it comes to who's the better ODI bat, but fact remains, Viv's great years lasted six years. Either side of those six years, he was not the very top rung consistently. There are plenty of players who go through a half decade long purple patch ( Ponting, Hussey, to name a few) but they normally do not merit consideration amongst the greatest, since they do not show the longetivity that certain Tendulkars, Laras, Kallises of the world show. Yet, Viv's purple patch was so mindboggling that i must put him near the very top. The only reason why i'd rate Tendu higher, as i said is because: a) He's done it for much longer than Viv, while playing much more matches during it b) He did not decline precipitously like Viv did when his hand-eye coordination failed him c) He is more durable than Viv d) He's been in tougher match-spot far more often than Viv. The thing about Viv, you must consider, is that he had total freedom to do whatever he wanted and very rarely did he bat under pressure. This is because he batted behind two of the best ODI batsmen of their times ( Greenidge and Haynes), along with a very strong middle order and above all, a bowling unit that could defend the total 80% of the time. As prized a wicket as Viv was, he was never the sole threat WI posessed on the field, while Tendu definitely was the sole bastion of Indian batsmanship between 94 and 98 in ODIs and frequently, one of the two players who were gamechangers for India for over half his career. I am sorry but had Viv's performances been more even throughout his career, instead of a six year epic patch, along with a greater capability in his latter years, Viv would've stayed #1. As it is, Sachin has produced a far more complete ODI batting career than Viv and he is ahead.

[Sidhoni]

We already have a marathon Sachin vs Viv thread!