The Outsider Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Since' date=' all of them are same I would choose to go with pedigree.[/quote'] Sehwag is an alternative and so is Gambhir but it's hilarious to claim that Dhoni has pedigree as a test captain.
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 No' date=' at their "worst" they will be equal to Dhoni (what is worse than 8-0?). And they defnitely have a chance of doing much better than him[/quote'] After england defeated us at home where dhoni kept barking like a dog for pitches and the result that followed ,Any captain with a pich of selfrespect would have stepped down.
Crookbond Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I so wish that we could make someone else the captain - the fact is that (as Dravid puts it) there are few or no alternatives. We don't even have someone like the names mentioned here. Earlier when we faced that situation captains were made based on seniority like Ganguly who had is place cemented in the team. Currently, the seniors like Gambhir are not even sure of a team spot - forget Test match spot. The only other option is Sehwag but going to Sehwag would mean taking a step back. I would like Tendulkar to take over the Test match captaincy but I think that's not going to happen.
saneindian Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Were you expecting a change? The way captaincy aspirants Gambhir, Sehwag, Kohli (even though GG and Viru have almost given up and are supporting Kohli as the new captain ) have performed in the last 3-4 months, Dhoni is safe in the job for another 6 months.
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I so wish that we could make someone else the captain - the fact is that (as Dravid puts it) there are few or no alternatives. We don't even have someone like the names mentioned here. Earlier when we faced that situation captains were made based on seniority like Ganguly who had is place cemented in the team. Currently' date=' the seniors like Gambhir are not even sure of a team spot - forget Test match spot. The only other option is Sehwag but going to Sehwag would mean taking a step back. I would like Tendulkar to take over the Test match captaincy but I think that's not going to happen.[/quote'] What gambhir and shewag are not sure of test team spot? Gambhir averaged near 40 in last series and shewag scored a hundred and won us the only test. They are as secure as dhoni is.
Dumbbells Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 He was more desperate to win this series and his body languages shows it.. Hopefully he continues this aggression.
Crookbond Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 No' date=' at their "worst" they will be equal to Dhoni (what is worse than 8-0?). And they defnitely have a chance of doing much better than him[/quote'] Remember that is 7-0, Sehwag captained in one of the games and there was no chance of him doing better, one could clearly see it. Second, it is not consecutive Test matches that we were 0-7 (or 0-8) a point that is quite conveniently forgotten. So, it is not hilarious to claim Gambhir who has hardly performed in the last 3 years to be Test captain but it is hilarious to claim someone with an average captaincy record as having "pedigree" over the same Gambhir, Ha!
NareshK Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Viru, Virat, Ashwin, god damnit even Shami Ahmed cannot do worse than 1-10 scoreline in 12 important games! :facepalm: The names you suggested shows you dont have an argument. No matter who is made captain, ultimately the players have to step up. Before England series, India did superbly in tests under the same Dhoni captaincy. What has changed so dramatically about his captaincy that he needs to be sacked ? Its the performances which have gone down. Once the batsmen and bowlers start doing their job, the team will do well again.
rkt.india Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Is Dhoni our biggest problem in tests? He has been a below average captain but for me, opners and middle order batting is a bigger concern, not Dhoni.
NareshK Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 If we are going to carry this discussion' date=' you have to start calming down for starters. [b']Next, do you want a captain to do 'better' than Dhoni OR you want to replace him just for the sake of it? The names you suggest are just like any other BCCI administrator. If no one can do 'worse' than Dhoni, all of them are the same. Since, all of them are same I would choose to go with pedigree. This seems to be the intention of some people here. Just change the captain for the sake of it, whether it makes the team better or not.
Number Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Give it to anyone. Just kick Dhoni out. Series by series basis captain would be good for India as of now.
Crookbond Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 What gambhir and shewag are not sure of test team spot? Gambhir averaged near 40 in last series and shewag scored a hundred and won us the only test. They are as secure as dhoni is. CG - If you think Gambhir has "performed" in Test cricket in the last 3 years then probably you need a reality check. You can twist numbers as much as you want to but Gambhir has not performed as one would expect out of an opener. His report card over the past 3 years would read - Below Average. Sehwag is a different matter but personally I do not see anything in Sehwag the captain. I even doubt his abilities as a batsman on overseas tours. Before, you do it - you can't compare Gambhir's numbers to Dhoni's for obvious reasons. Besides, no one claims Dhoni to be a great Test bat either.
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 what after whitewashes in eng and aus and losing to eng at home where dhoni barked like adog for turning pitches.People are asking for just sake of it.:hysterical::giggle::hysterical:
saneindian Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Difficult to take wickets whent he captain spreads the field at the first sign of attack. Dhoni is past it. dhoni was made a young captain even when he was not an "alternative"' date=' no reason why Kohli cannot be[/quote'] Dhoni was first made the T20 captain because the BCCI hardly cared about the tournament and that too when he was in a decent form having scored those crucial 50s in England in 2007. Only after we won the World T20 did he become the ODI captain as well. Kohli, of today could get detroyed as a batsman if burdened with captaincy right now. Needed at least some scores in all these matches and he could so easily have got the captaincy. Instead all we have is a 100 in the 4th test and a 70 in the last match in nearly 17-18 innings across formats. Too big a risk IMO at the moment.
The Outsider Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 So, it is not hilarious to claim Gambhir who has hardly performed in the last 3 years to be Test captain but it is hilarious to claim someone with an average captaincy record as having "pedigree" over the same Gambhir, Ha! He performed in the most recent series. He has been mediocre over the last 3 years, but so has Dhoni. And anyway my first choice is Sehwag and not Gambhir so if you wish to exclude Gambhir from the discussion please do so. What is Dhoni's captaincy pedigree? Let's hear it.
Crookbond Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 This seems to be the intention of some people here. Just change the captain for the sake of it' date=' whether it makes the team better or not.[/quote'] It's both ways - the PRO camp claims TINA and the AGAINST camp claims "anyone would do better than him". But the matter of fact, as RKT puts it eloquently is that the "captain" is hardly the main concern. Player performance including the openers and the middle order is the major concern. A change of captain will not change that fact - I would rather bring that change first than putting the blame on the captain.
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 CG - If you think Gambhir has "performed" in Test cricket in the last 3 years then probably you need a reality check. You can twist numbers as much as you want to but Gambhir has not performed as one would expect out of an opener. His report card over the past 3 years would read - Below Average. Sehwag is a different matter but personally I do not see anything in Sehwag the captain. I even doubt his abilities as a batsman on overseas tours. Before, you do it - you can't compare Gambhir's numbers to Dhoni's for obvious reasons. Besides, no one claims Dhoni to be a great Test bat either. If you can read i said last series.Everybody has been poor even dhoni.Gambhir had a good sa series in 2011 and then he got injured in eng and struggled in aus and agianst nz.But scored runs agianst eng in last test series,He is going no where and same with shewag or kohli. Anybody in this trio should be made captain.
Number Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Is Dhoni our biggest problem in tests? He has been a below average captain but for me' date=' opners and middle order batting is a bigger concern, not Dhoni.[/quote'] His captaincy is the biggest concern. At least I firmly feel so.
Muloghonto Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Viru, Virat, Ashwin, god damnit even Shami Ahmed cannot do worse than 1-10 scoreline in 12 important games! Look, Dhoni is a defensive captain. It works very well in ODI cricket where batsmen win games usually. In 2009 in NZ the bugger played like a snail to set a target of 600 to NZ and we didn't win that game. Now, in Test cricket if you think you cannot defend 400-450 in the 4th innings then you need to understand that you have no business winning that game or even effing drawing it. Dhoni does not understand Test cricket. Period. We need a change there. We will find an alternative. This TINA thing is the only thing that is hindering us Don't be ridiculous. Granted, Dhoni is not an aggressive Test captain, but we have only *ONE* alternative right now: Sehwag and even then, Sehwag would be a temporary 'seat warmer', as he does not have much cricket left in him ( 3-4 years, tops). Your idea that we can just hand anyone the capataincy is pathetic, it shows a remarkable lack of understanding of the game. A captain has to be a player who can make the XI on a primary skill basis. Right now, except for Tendulkar, Dhoni & Sehwag, we do not have a *SINGLE* player who is a garantee for the test side in the future. Forget Kohli, even Pujara is not 'set' in the team- if he has a disastrous tour of RSA,NZ and ENG, i garantee you we will have a new #3 for the west indies series to follow. None of our batsmen/bowlers are in the 'Ganguly-Laxman/Zaheer-Ishant' class of 'establishment' (though Ishant is almost out of rope), where we can take one terrible season and say 'he is a proven performer, people are allowed to have one bad year, even Tendy/Kumble had them'. Also, keep in mind that captaining India ia a death sentence as far as personal performances go- virtually everyone who's captained India for a significant stretch of time have lowered their records compared to career averages : (Name, avg as capt, avg as not capt): Tendu: 51, 54.80 Dravid: 44.50, 53.70 Ganguly: 37.66, 45.15 Azhar: 43.93, 46.01 Kumble: 39.49, 28.73(bowling ave). Only Dhoni and Kapil have better performances as captain than as non-captain and the only other one who's performance was not affected by captaincy was Gavaskar in the last 40 years. So we have a distinct trend of lowered performances as captain and that is not something we can have our new unestablished players go through.
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