Best bowler got dropped?

[G_B_]

just proving what a dumb decision that was

[Muloghonto]

Leave first because it took them an inning first innings of the first match to come to terms and after that even in second innings of first test they did well. Regarding Panesar, how can one flight the ball at 95 kph? He did flight here and there at slower pace but that just to mix the pace up. The best thing he had was consistency which both our spinners Ashwin and Ojha lacked big time. Ojha may be our best bowler, but no way he was good.

I am sorry but you are full of utter shyte. Firstly, the entire English team figured out how to play us, so the whole argument of 'leave the first test, they took an innings or two to adjust' applies to everybody. Secondly, for tests 2,3 & 4, Ojha was quite easily the best bowler of the lot. He was quite easily the most consistent, tight and the one who the English batsmen showed the most respect for. Thirdly, only a person who's never watched or understood cricket can compare Ojha to Jadeja's bowling. That is as ridiculous as comparing Hafeez to Ajmal. Ojha is a consistent & steady bowler. He does not turn it much and doesn't come with much variations but he bowls at a tight length, creates uncertainty for the batsmen and as such, they play him cautiously. he is the type of bowler that if you are watching every ball very closely and using your feet, you won't get out to him, but you won't clobber him either. But if you lose concentration for a moment or don't use your feet well, he will get you. Ie, the quintessential 'Vettori-esque' bowler, who incidentally, is also not a big ripper of the ball nor does he come with many variations (though he's added some in the last few years). Jadeja on the other hand, is comparable to the likes of Kumara Dharmasena, the new Harbhajan Singh (actually, not that new, the Harby of the last 3-4 years is what i mean), Chris Gayle, etc. with the ball. Ie, a defensive bowler with zero variations but some variety (those two things are different btw) who fires in darts into the offstump/middle stump full line. Since he is a leftie, against righties (ie, 90% of batsmen), it means if you pack the offside and dont bowl to his pads, he won't score off of you. But unless he is looking to clobber you, you won't get wickets either. Since Jadeja is *not* in the side for his bowling prowess alone ( at this stage, mr two triple centuries in first class cricket can only be picked on the basis of his batting), the question does not arise in him replacing Ojha. We are talking frontline spinning options here, not the 3rd spinner who is good for holding down one end and nothing more unless in super-friendly conditions. For the frontline spinning option, the Ojha-Vettori type bowlers ( with variations, consistent and accurate) are the base-minimum requirement. While total masters ( Warne,Murali, Kumble) are rare and obviously better options and one can make arguments towards mystery spinners (Ajmal) or bags of variation and variety ( Ashwin & McGill), one definitely cannot make the argument towards including negetive line dart-hurlers (Jadeja, Dharmasena, etc) as frontline spinners when other options are available.

[Crookbond]

Warne on Star TV - Jadeja picked because he bowls more accurately than Ojha. Ojha gives the ball some flight but was pretty ordinary towards the end of the England series. Jadeja would be more effective and provides more variations in terms of flight and pace than Ojha. I can understand MS's preference over him. Ravi Shastri - I agree Warnie. Ojha is a good bowler but he went off the boil towards the end of the England series. I wonder what people throwing rubbish on Ashwin would've have to say after he's clearly been the pick of the bowlers in the 46.3 overs bowled today.

[Crookbond]

5th wicket out of 5 for Ashwin and almost every third posted posing as a super selector on this thread trolled!

[rkt.india]

I am sorry but you are full of utter shyte. Firstly, the entire English team figured out how to play us, so the whole argument of 'leave the first test, they took an innings or two to adjust' applies to everybody. Secondly, for tests 2,3 & 4, Ojha was quite easily the best bowler of the lot. He was quite easily the most consistent, tight and the one who the English batsmen showed the most respect for. Thirdly, only a person who's never watched or understood cricket can compare Ojha to Jadeja's bowling. That is as ridiculous as comparing Hafeez to Ajmal. .

But where did i compare Ojha to Jadeja. I am just Jadeja has not replaced Ojja, it is either Bhajji or BK.

[rkt.india]

Warne on Star TV - Jadeja picked because he bowls more accurately than Ojha. Ojha gives the ball some flight but was pretty ordinary towards the end of the England series. Jadeja would be more effective and provides more variations in terms of flight and pace than Ojha. I can understand MS's preference over him. Ravi Shastri - I agree Warnie. Ojha is a good bowler but he went off the boil towards the end of the England series. I wonder what people throwing rubbish on Ashwin would've have to say after he's clearly been the pick of the bowlers in the 46.3 overs bowled today.

Which the people call flight is just dropping the ball. Flight does not mean just drop the ball in the air.

[Clarke]

I am not saying he should not have been picked. Bhajji should not have been picked in first place. My only point is' date=' this is not as big an issue as has been made here.[/quote'] It certainly is a big issue since the ideology behind the decision is dumb. Right handers => need leggies => chaiwala + jaddu left handers => need offies => ashwin + darty

[Crookbond]

Which the people call flight is just dropping the ball. Flight does not mean just drop the ball in the air.

Warne was careful in his words - "some flight". You are right in your assessment about flight throughout the thread. Flight characterizes putting more revolutions AND giving the ball some air. This leads to the ball looping and dropping short of a full length and eventually the batsman misjudging the length. I guess this is 101 of spin bowling.

[Raghav_12]

I wonder what people throwing rubbish on Ashwin would've have to say after he's clearly been the pick of the bowlers in the 46.3 overs bowled today.

You can't defend selection done for the match after seeing them perform in the match unless captain claims himself to be clairvoyant. Secondly, not many people disputed presence of Ashwin in playing XI.

[rkt.india]

It certainly is a big issue since the ideology behind the decision is dumb. Right handers => need leggies => chaiwala + jaddu left handers => need offies => ashwin + darty

Ideology is not dumb, decision may not be 100% correct, but it is the individual who is to be blamed, not ideology. . If Harbhajan had bowled well then it would not have mattered. If Ashwin bowled well why not Harbhajan.

[Crookbond]

You can't defend selection done for the match after seeing them perform in the match unless captain claims himself to be clairvoyant. Secondly' date= not many people disputed presence of Ashwin in playing XI.

Firstly, you can't call a selection "dumb" unless you are watching the bowler closely always. A bowler can improve between two series - not entirely infeasible. Net practice reveals more than statistics, also you need to read the conditions better. The team management is more likely to know about Ashwin than us on our couches as the only source for us is past performances and statistics. In the same vein, you can't also criticize a selection after the match like most people do here. Secondly, The post was directed ONLY to those people who questioned Ashwin's place. This was very clear in my words unless you chose to ignore them. FYI - Warne and Shastri called the selection of Jadeja a good move when Australia were 2 wickets down.

[Clarke]

Ideology is not dumb' date=' decision may not be 100% correct, but it is the individual who is to be blamed, not ideology. . [b']If Harbhajan had bowled well then it would not have mattered. If Ashwin bowled well why not Harbhajan.

Waah, what an if statement :wall: You can justify any selection on blaming the individual, carry on with Gambhir & co as well. You can then play an U19 side instead of the seniors and then suggest they could have performed better. Quite some garbage there.

[CG]

Firstly, you can't call a selection "dumb" unless you are watching the bowler closely always. A bowler can improve between two series - not entirely infeasible. Net practice reveals more than statistics, also you need to read the conditions better. The team management is more likely to know about Ashwin than us on our couches as the only source for us is past performances and statistics. In the same vein, you can't also criticize a selection after the match like most people do here. Secondly, The post was directed ONLY to those people who questioned Ashwin's place. This was very clear in my words unless you chose to ignore them. FYI - Warne and Shastri called the selection of Jadeja a good move when Australia were 2 wickets down.

Really stop this BS.Ashwin place was never in question.U got to be really dumb to think india would drop pujara or anybody if he played bad in nets after being indias best batsman in last series .Fact is the australian team has many lefthanders and dhoni went for it as bhajji has a great record against aus in india plus 100 test for bhajji.Also Jadeja was already in the team in the last test and we all know how moron shastri said India should not be afraid to lose at home .

[CG]

Which the people call flight is just dropping the ball. Flight does not mean just drop the ball in the air.

Ojha gives the ball enough air and gets drift when he bowling well and spins it after the drift.

[CG]

Please also explain how you defend inclusion of BK in XI because that is another tactical error? see I am not defending Dhoni here.

DM thinks u are.:hysterical:

[kubrickian]

Not including Ojha is fairly understandable even though we can say its a bad decision in hindsight. They probably thought 2 right arm offies are better because of the number of lefties in Aussie batting lineup, so Bhajji got in and they preferred Jadeja over Ojha as the stop gap option and also to give some batting depth. They could have gone with 4 spinners but it will become too one dimensional. If there was some reverse swing on offer, there wouldnt be any seamers to exploit it.

[rkt.india]

Really stop this BS.Ashwin place was never in question.U got to be really dumb to think india would drop pujara or anybody if he played bad in nets after being indias best batsman in last series .Fact is the australian team has many lefthanders and dhoni went for it as bhajji has a great record against aus in india plus 100 test for bhajji.Also Jadeja was already in the team in the last test and we all know how moron shastri said India should not be afraid to lose at home .

For whom Ojha has been dropped? People saying Jadeja while Jadeja and OJha both played last test. It should either be Bhajji or BK then.

[CG]

For whom Ojha has been dropped? People saying Jadeja while Jadeja and OJha both played last test. It should either be Bhajji or BK then.

offcourse its a ploy to derail and save captain cool.Bhajji is the one .

[Sidhoni]

Bhajji is the cause. He hasn't done anything to get back in the side and on top of that straightaway into the XI. Jadeja is bowling better than Bhajji. If Ojha was playing, we would have bundled them out for less than 250 surely.

[Crookbond]

Really stop this BS.Ashwin place was never in question.U got to be really dumb to think india would drop pujara or anybody if he played bad in nets after being indias best batsman in last series .Fact is the australian team has many lefthanders and dhoni went for it as bhajji has a great record against aus in india plus 100 test for bhajji.Also Jadeja was already in the team in the last test and we all know how moron shastri said India should not be afraid to lose at home .

Read the OP before wasting space in the cyber world. In post #29, one poster plays Ojha/Harbhajan over Ashwin and then contradicts himself later saying Ashwin's place was never in doubt! :haha: My posts were towards those 'experts'.