Why Tendulkar must retire now

[Chalks]

Just wish he would retire already - then the haters would have to find another tall poppy to knock down.

[The Outsider]

Stats say otherwise. Kallis has been one of the best batsmen ever. He started slowly averaging sub 30 for initial part of his career but then took off. He has consistently scored runs for SA when it counted and was instrumental in taking SA where they are. You may not agree but 42 hundreds, 13K+ runs at 56+ is legendary and yup I put him higher than Tendulkar. Wouldn't have done that 2 years ago but now he is clearly higher.

Statistics are only one part of assessing a player. Can you tell me why no one except you and a few other number crunching fans would never rate Kallis among the top 5 batsmen of all time? And I am not talking about just Indians here, who might be jealous and would want to see one of their own being ranked higher. Not one player from McGrath, Warne, Benaud, Hadlee, Chappell, Botham etc. etc. the list goes on and on would consider Kallis even worthy of a debate among the best batsman of his generation, forget about top 5 of all time. Right from Cricinfo which assembled a lot of former players and leading cricket journalists to all players who have played the game at the highest level the debate on the best of the generation starts and ends with Tendulkar and Lara with the occasional mention of Waugh and Ponting. Do you think all these people are unaware of the stats you quoted which are available at the click of the button? Or perhaps they look at other aspects as well which are not captured in stats? Barrington has stats to rival Sobers, but no one would even consider rating Barrington as a better batsman than Sobers. Miandad has better stats than Richards and Gavaskar, but no one in his right mind would put Miandad as better than those two.

As for Favre "Team of Decade" thingy you asked me to show whether Favre was dominant for a decade like Tendulkar has been and that was my response. I don't have to be "proud" about anything. These are facts. In 90s Favre was as dominant a QB as Tendulkar as a batsman with 3 MVP seasons. Only Manning has more MVP seasons - 4. The guy was a legend and if you were a football fan you would know what Favre was all about. His legacy is as great in football/NFL as Tendulkar's is in cricket. The only different is he doesn't have the support of 1.2 billion people to call him "god" but if you go to "Packers land" and talk to any cheesehead he will tell you what Favre means to him/her and to him Favre would have the same special place as Tendulkar would for most of Indians. Regarding not taking my rankings seriously you surely came out objective calling Favre Martyn, Inzi or Miandad of football :giggle:

What I've found is that Favre is listed around the 25-30 mark in an all time NFL player list. Yeah that's not like Martyn but is similar to Inzi bhai and Miandad.

[Ultimate_Game]

Statistics are only one part of assessing a player. Can you tell me why no one except you and a few other number crunching fans would never rate Kallis among the top 5 batsmen of all time? And I am not talking about just Indians here, who might be jealous and would want to see one of their own being ranked higher. Not one player from McGrath, Warne, Benaud, Hadlee, Chappell, Botham etc. etc. the list goes on and on would consider Kallis even worthy of a debate among the best batsman of his generation, forget about top 5 of all time. Right from Cricinfo which assembled a lot of former players and leading cricket journalists to all players who have played the game at the highest level the debate on the best of the generation starts and ends with Tendulkar and Lara with the occasional mention of Waugh and Ponting. Do you think all these people are unaware of the stats you quoted which are available at the click of the button? Or perhaps they look at other aspects as well which are not captured in stats? Barrington has stats to rival Sobers, but no one would even consider rating Barrington as a better batsman than Sobers. Miandad has better stats than Richards and Gavaskar, but no one in his right mind would put Miandad as better than those two. What I've found is that Favre is listed around the 25-30 mark in an all time NFL player list. Yeah that's not like Martyn but is similar to Inzi bhai and Miandad.

Let's wait and see when Kallis hangs up his boots where he lands in the list. At the moment he's close to the top. Favre similar to Inzi Bhai? Really??? Your arguments are getting more ridiculous by the post. If Favre's the "28th best player" as you claim, pray tell me howz Inzi the "28th best cricketer"? Either the comparison is QB vs Batsmen in which case both Favre and Tendulkar are in the same ballpark, or it should be between "Favre as NFL player" vs "Tendulkar as cricketer". You know something which is not apples and oranges as you can't take Favre's rank as a NFL player and compare it to Tendulkar's rank as a batsman. If we start listing the top cricketers do you know where Tendulkar will end up? Forget Bradman, Hobbs, Sobers, Kallis, Hutton etc. which I listed earlier, folks like Warne, Murali, WI pace battery especially Marshall & Ambrose, Gilchrist, McGrath will also will come into contention. You see "Top cricketers" will also have bowlers and wks in the list not just batsmen. And yeah Tendulkar will not be next in line after Bradman as you are making it out to be and will slip as well.

[Deleted_User_1]

Sandip Patil should just give SRT the opportunity to announcement his retirement gracefully. After all, he has definitely earned that right. Talk to him, thank him for the service he has provided to Indian cricket and then tell him that he will not be selected for the next test whenever that may be. If he retires good, or else he will not be picked. But I am not sure he or anyone will have the balls to do that, as chickensh*t as they are.

[BeautifulGame]

Wrong qoute

[BeautifulGame]

Stats say otherwise. Kallis has been one of the best batsmen ever. He started slowly averaging sub 30 for initial part of his career but then took off. He has consistently scored runs for SA when it counted and was instrumental in taking SA where they are. You may not agree but 42 hundreds, 13K+ runs at 56+ is legendary and yup I put him higher than Tendulkar. Wouldn't have done that 2 years ago but now he is clearly higher. As for Favre "Team of Decade" thingy you asked me to show whether Favre was dominant for a decade like Tendulkar has been and that was my response. I don't have to be "proud" about anything. These are facts. In 90s Favre was as dominant a QB as Tendulkar as a batsman with 3 MVP seasons. Only Manning has more MVP seasons - 4. The guy was a legend and if you were a football fan you would know what Favre was all about. His legacy is as great in football/NFL as Tendulkar's is in cricket. The only different is he doesn't have the support of 1.2 billion people to call him "god" but if you go to "Packers land" and talk to any cheesehead he will tell you what Favre means to him/her and to him Favre would have the same special place as Tendulkar would for most of Indians. Regarding not taking my rankings seriously you surely came out objective calling Favre Martyn, Inzi or Miandad of football :giggle:

Lol Kallis in the Top 5 of all time. Stats are not everything. If that's the case is Samaraweera a better player than Viv Richards? Kallis is making hay in a period when the bowling at its weakest and wkts have generally gone flat. Why did Kallis got owned by Aus until Warne and Macgrath retired home and away. How many all time great bowlers has he actually good record against? Kallis won't make the top 5 batsman of last 25 years let alone top 5 in all time list. Sachin Lara S Waugh and Crowe are all easily a couple if levels above him. Pointing and Dravid have a decent case of being better than him too

[rkt.india]

Lol Kallis in the Top 5 of all time. Stats are not everything. If that's the case is Samaraweera a better player than Viv Richards? Kallis is making hay in a period when the bowling at its weakest and wkts have generally gone flat. Why did Kallis got owned by Aus until Warne and Macgrath retired home and away. How many all time great bowlers has he actually good record against? Kallis won't make the top 5 batsman of last 25 years let alone top 5 in all time list. Sachin Lara S Waugh and Crowe are all easily a couple if levels above him. Pointing and Dravid have a decent case of being better than him too

Martin Crowe averahe 45 in test cricket. Stats may not show everything but they do show that how the player has been for his team and that Kallis and he is not just a batsman. He is an alrounder and there are not many better batting alrounders than him world cricket. Gary Sobers and Kallis two of the greatest batting alrounder.

[I6MTW]

Martin Crowe averahe 45 in test cricket. Stats may not show everything but they do show that how the player has been for his team and that Kallis and he is not just a batsman. He is an alrounder and there are not many better batting alrounders than him world cricket. Gary Sobers and Kallis two of the greatest batting alrounder.

Kapil Dev as well.

[rkt.india]

Kapil Dev as well.

Kapil was bowling alrounder like Botham, Hadlee, Imran. Though Hadlee was the weakest batsman in them and Imran had two phases of his career, one when he was just a bowler and less of a batsman and second when his bowling faded a bit but batting came along better.

[BeautifulGame]

Martin Crowe averahe 45 in test cricket. Stats may not show everything but they do show that how the player has been for his team and that Kallis and he is not just a batsman. He is an alrounder and there are not many better batting alrounders than him world cricket. Gary Sobers and Kallis two of the greatest batting alrounder.

Yes as batting all rounder is the the best of the last 20 years but as a batsman alone he won't feature in the top 5 of last 20 years let alone the all time list .

[rkt.india]

Yes as batting all rounder is the the best of the last 20 years but as a batsman alone he won't feature in the top 5 of last 20 years let alone the all time list .

But cricket is not just about batting and you talk about a cricketer as a whole package when you give players rankings. So certainly Kallis one of the top cricketer of all time. Kallis is SRT and Zaheer combined, though not as dominant as SRT once was but as reliable, not as regular as Zak in terms of bowling, but as effective.

[CSK Fan]

Give it a rest, will you. We have all seen Tendulkar for a long time and yep he loves his stats/records/milestones. One of the indicators of greatness in sports is who steps his game when everything's on the line. In other words who's "clutch". In soccer, which player would you rather have the ball in front of goal in the dying minutes of the game with football WC on the line? In NFL/football, which QB would you rather have the ball in his mind with your team behind and just 2 mins to go at the end of Super Bowl? Which player would you want to have the ball in the dying seconds of Game 7 of NBA Championship? Which batsmen would you want to have in the middle in the series decider of a World Championship or if the partnership was batting fo your life? In soccer I would pick Pele or Maradona, in NFL I would pick Montana or Brady, in NBA I would pick Jordan, in sprinting I would pick Bolt, but in cricket if it was a 50-50 gme of a decider in a one-off game I would never even think of Tendulkar. In Tests if I could pick any player I would pick Brdmn and Richrds to be in the middle, and in odis I would have Dhoni & Bevan on the pitch (maybe Richards, Hussey or Gilchrist as contenders). This is what I meant by Tendulkar not being in the same ball-park as others. You my disgree and it's your prerogative, but to me Tendulkar hasnt been clutch. For a player of his abilities and stats/records he comes up short when he needs to step up. Hell, even Dravid & VVS have been more clutch than Tendulkar in Tests for India.

Yep, so we are back to personal "feelings" and made up goals (here being a "clutch" player). Oh we have been that route a million time and we know how your brains will work aorund that You will form your own vague defnition of clutch whichever suits your agenda. For example, that innings of 137 against Pak in Chennai with a broken back is not clutch of course. Or with the team 5 down in SA is not clutch. No sir, clutch is something else according to your skewed defintions Richards failed as many times in similar "clutch" situations but there you will only look at his successes, with Sachin, you will only look at the times he failed And you are right. Made up and vague terms like "clutch" where you can put your own defnitions of innings which may or may not fall under "clutch" is certainly the best way to judge a player, isnt it? At least you used a new term, earlier it used to be "pressure". What I also dont understand is that people like you always talk about Sachin's love for stats over his team, yet says he fails under pressure in a team situation. How can both be true? If he didnt care for his team, why would he feel any pressure in those "clutch" situations?

[CSK Fan]

LOL at those claiming a grand total of 2 world cup finals isn't enough to judge finals performance. You don't get to the WC finals 20 times. When you get that chance, you HAVE to perform, especially if you are considered an ATG. If you did not, it will go against you. Michael Jordan is considered one of the greatest not because he won scoring titles, it because he won 6 championships AND was the MVP in all of them. That is true greatness.

Err, Ponting got like what 4-5 chances in Wc finals before he succeded in one, where he came in after the bowler were pulverized and the score was over 100 in 10 overs? Yet that innings is considered as the prime example of a wc innings As for Jordan, let me know in which game he started with a handicap of -360 points (like Sachin started with having to chase that score in the world cup final) BTW, love to see tghe fact that all of a sudden its an ODI cup which decides the greatness of a cricketer. So how many world cups did the Don win?

[rkt.india]

I think 2008 CB series finals were as big a matches as any world cup final. We had not won an ODI series in Australia for 20 plus years and winning against a very good Aussie side was no joke and he performed in those matches.

[CSK Fan]

I think 2008 CB series finals were as big a matches as any world cup final. We had not won an ODI series in Australia for 20 plus years and winning against a very good Aussie side was no joke and he performed in those matches.

Thats what I said. He has been amazing in finals of tournaments in general, and against that we have a sample of 2 wc finals, one where he was chasing 360+

[vamos_rafa]

Thats what I said. He has been amazing in finals of tournaments in general' date=' and against that we have a sample of 2 wc finals, one where he was chasing 360+[/quote'] Apart from WC finals, he has done very well in the other eliminators in WCs. Thing with Sachin is, he has had such a huge career that you can pick and choose many instances to prove either this or that.

[Muloghonto]

I fail to see why performing in a world cup final is a bigger clutch performance than performing in a must-win group stage match. So its clutch when you are playing in a match when the cup is awarded, but not clutch when you are playing in a match where victory is a pre-requisite to continue competing for the cup. How the hell does that make sense ?

[Texan]

I fail to see why performing in a world cup final is a bigger clutch performance than performing in a must-win group stage match. So its clutch when you are playing in a match when the cup is awarded' date=' but not clutch when you are playing in a match where victory is a pre-requisite to continue competing for the cup. How the hell does that make sense ?[/quote'] Obviously, there is less pressure while performing in a league game as against a knockout game. It's the same as performing in the 4th innings of a test vs performing in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd. When you look at Sachin's record in both the World Cup finals he's played in, it's pretty clear that despite having tons of runs from earlier matches, he could not handle the pressure of the final.

[Texan]

But cricket is not just about batting and you talk about a cricketer as a whole package when you give players rankings. So certainly Kallis one of the top cricketer of all time. Kallis is SRT and Zaheer combined' date=' though not as dominant as SRT once was but as reliable, not as regular as Zak in terms of bowling, but as effective.[/quote'] Agree, Kallis is way >> Sachin.

[Muloghonto]

Obviously, there is less pressure while performing in a league game as against a knockout game. It's the same as performing in the 4th innings of a test vs performing in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd. When you look at Sachin's record in both the World Cup finals he's played in, it's pretty clear that despite having tons of runs from earlier matches, he could not handle the pressure of the final.

So a league game where it is 'must win to advance' is not a knockout game ? Tell me how did Tendy face more pressure in 2003 finals than Anwar in the 2003 Ind v Pak league game. In the finals, if India loses, we lose the world cup, in the group match, if Pak lost (which they did), they lose the world cup. So how is it 'less pressure' just because it is a league game ? When you look at 2 matches from a sample of 400+, that is 0.5% of the sample space and completely irrelevant to drawing any sort of a conclusion. As i said, if you are to go by 'must win to progress/stay alive' in a world cup, which is the definition of a clutch game, Tendy is as good as it gets. Ever. Sure, he didn't deliver in the more glamourous of those must win situations, but he contributed plenty of times in the must win scenarios of world cups, which makes him one of the best clutch batsmen in ODIs.