The Outsider Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 In which post did I say he was sacked because of these things? I just said it was during his tenure that Ishant started doing different things and in that process lost his bowling action and natural inswing. I didnt say he was dropped because of that. My point was bowler's downfall had started when he was coach. And you are making that point based on 12-15 overs Ishant bowled in World T20?
rkt.india Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 And you are making that point based on 12-15 overs Ishant bowled in World T20? WT20 after that WI ODI series and it continued for 2 years till SA tour in 2010. He got back to his original approach during IPL 2011 and WI 2011 which he worked out in the break he had after SA tour with his local coach in the nets, but after his failure in England and Aus now again since Dawes' arrival is again trying those same things. Rather than actually understanding why he did poorly in England and Aus, he is making changes in his action which was not the issue. Issue was his lengths and seam position which were too short and scrambled for him to get any seam or swing and to be effectively take wickets consistently.
The Outsider Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 WT20 after that WI ODI series and it continued for 2 years till SA tour in 2010. He got back to his original approach during IPL 2011 and WI 2011 which he worked out in the break he had after SA tour with his local coach in the nets, but after his failure in England and Aus now again since Dawes' arrival is again trying those same things. Rather than actually understanding why he did poorly in England and Aus, he is making changes in his action which was not the issue. Issue was his lengths and seam position which were too short and scrambled for him to get any seam or swing and to be effectively take wickets consistently. What are you talking about? Prasad was sacked after the World T20? Are you crazy enough to blame Ishant's failures for two years later on Prasad? Good night.
rkt.india Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 What are you talking about? Prasad was sacked after the World T20? Are you crazy enough to blame Ishant's failures for two years later on Prasad? Good night. Why not when we can give credit of Ishant's rise on Aus tour in 2008 to Prasad, his downfall also goes to Prasad because of both started when Prasad was there and during one series these things stay there for long. When rot starts, it does not go straight away and takes a lot of time to be understood and cured. Good night.
Vilander Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Your digs are quite annoying because the best pace bowling performance that the Indian team has put up over the last many years as a unit has been when Prasad was the coach. irresponsible guy was probably a good trundler, but hardly a good coach. Spoiled many including munna.
The Outsider Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 irresponsible guy was probably a good trundler' date=' but hardly a good coach. Spoiled many including munna.[/quote'] Prasad's tenure coincided with the best performance of the Indian bowling attack in memory - winning an ODI series against South Africa in Ireland, test series win in England, World T20 win, CB series win, great performance by the bowlers at Perth and the Australian tour, demolishing England and Australia with reverse swing at home, and another superb performance on the tour to New Zealand. These were wins set up by top notch bowling performances, most of them away from home and by fast bowlers. Prasad was dumped 4 years back. That should be enough time for the bowlers he destroyed to be able to repair themselves. They've become even worse since then. Munna has been away from Prasad for 4 years now - is he bowling thunderbolts now? He struggles to even stay on the cricket field these days.
The Outsider Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Why not when we can give credit of Ishant's rise on Aus tour in 2008 to Prasad' date=' his downfall also goes to Prasad because of both started when Prasad was there and during one series these things stay there for long. When rot starts, it does not go straight away and takes a lot of time to be understood and cured. Good night.[/quote'] How can Ishant's downfall be credited to Prasad when he bowled a grand total of 10 poor overs in the World T20? 10 poor overs by Ishant are enough for you start blaming Prasad? Abhi 4 saal ho gaye Prasad ko nikale - how long does it take to be understood and cured? What kind of damage did Prasad do in those 10 overs that 4 years are not enough to cure it?
SLICKR392 Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 brisk pace 115-125ks Lol..you are taking a dig at Venky for his pace? Correct me if I am wrong but it was Ishant who messed with his bowling action, not Venkatesh. This guy was even short listed as a bowling coach for Australia after he was dropped during or post Eng tour IIRC.
Vilander Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Lol..you are taking a dig at Venky for his pace? Correct me if I am wrong but it was Ishant who messed with his bowling action, not Venkatesh. This guy was even short listed as a bowling coach for Australia after he was dropped during or post Eng tour IIRC. munaf patel. venky had a hand in his fall, he was the one who started this trend of questioning munafs 'intensity' 'commitment' etc as if venky in his playing days was a tear away fast bowler and outstanding fielder.. bs. Complete **** head this guy was, good that he wont be near any other indian fast bowler.
The Outsider Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 munaf patel. venky had a hand in his fall' date=' he was the one who started this trend of questioning munafs 'intensity' 'commitment' etc as if venky in his playing days was a tear away fast bowler and outstanding fielder.. bs. Complete **** head this guy was, good that he wont be near any other indian fast bowler.[/quote'] Did you watch the Cape Town test in 2006 when Munna declared himself fit and then trundled in at 110-115 kmph? There was no Prasad near the set up then. And there has been no Prasad for the last 4 years and all Munna does is trundling and more trundling. The guy has an abysmal attitude and fitness levels. They have been pathetic before Prasad and after Prasad.
I6MTW Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 So Yadav has become trundler? No need to select him anymore then.
rkt.india Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 How can Ishant's downfall be credited to Prasad when he bowled a grand total of 10 poor overs in the World T20? 10 poor overs by Ishant are enough for you start blaming Prasad? Abhi 4 saal ho gaye Prasad ko nikale - how long does it take to be understood and cured? What kind of damage did Prasad do in those 10 overs that 4 years are not enough to cure it? It is not about just 10 poor overs. It is about the changes that happened in his bowling during that time and I believe Prasad had a huge role in that and those things continued till he realized that he is not going anywhere with that approach. Not every bowler can cope and adjust with such changes in his bowling and these happens away from international cricket in the nets. If one tries to do different things during matches, he is surely destroying his bowling. He listens to coaches a lot and even now as Joe Dawes came in, he again working on those changes again, rather than correcting his his basics first.
Vilander Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Did you watch the Cape Town test in 2006 when Munna declared himself fit and then trundled in at 110-115 kmph? There was no Prasad near the set up then. And there has been no Prasad for the last 4 years and all Munna does is trundling and more trundling. The guy has an abysmal attitude and fitness levels. They have been pathetic before Prasad and after Prasad. probably,lets give prasadham benifit of doubt in this. But i want know how someone can teach something that they do not know ? venky prasadham used to bowl 72 miles per hour mostly even in odi's, he could have gone below 70 mph in tests..how can he coach fast bowlers ? where did he display ability to bowl fast?
The Outsider Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 It is not about just 10 poor overs. It is about the changes that happened in his bowling during that time and I believe Prasad had a huge role in that and those things continued till he realized that he is not going anywhere with that approach. Not every bowler can cope and adjust with such changes in his bowling and these happens away from international cricket in the nets. If one tries to do different things during matches' date=' he is surely destroying his bowling. He listens to coaches a lot and even now as Joe Dawes came in, he again working on those changes again, rather than correcting his his basics first.[/quote'] Sorry, you are making no sense at all. Ishant played in the test series in New Zealand in March-April in which he was bowling normally. After that there was a break and IPL in which Ishant had no contact with Prasad. The team hurriedly assembled before the WT20, had no preparation camp, and hardly spent any time in England before their first match in WT20. In those few hours that Prasad might have spent with Ishant between the New Zealand tour and WT20 he was able to dramatically change his bowling to the extent that even 4 years later it has not been reversed. Do you even have an idea how stupid that sounds?
Vilander Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Sorry, you are making no sense at all. Ishant played in the test series in New Zealand in March-April in which he was bowling normally. After that there was a break and IPL in which Ishant had no contact with Prasad. The team hurriedly assembled before the WT20, had no preparation camp, and hardly spent any time in England before their first match in WT20. In those few hours that Prasad might have spent with Ishant between the New Zealand tour and WT20 he was able to dramatically change his bowling to the extent that even 4 years later it has not been reversed. Do you even have an idea how stupid that sounds? A coach is supposed to display ability of playing skills? How many international wickets did Troy Cooley take? Was Woolmer some hot shot international cricketer? This point makes no sense. All sports are littered with examples of ordinary players being successful coaches and great players being flops. There is absolutely no correlation. chill down gradpa.. venky prasad has no fast bowling skills( rank trundler who used cutters) and should not come anywhere near indian team fast bowlers and try to modify their actions 'technically' there is no need for his 'technical' corrections in international level, and he wont. No amount of whinging will change that :winky:
rkt.india Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Sorry, you are making no sense at all. Ishant played in the test series in New Zealand in March-April in which he was bowling normally. After that there was a break and IPL in which Ishant had no contact with Prasad. The team hurriedly assembled before the WT20, had no preparation camp, and hardly spent any time in England before their first match in WT20. But he bowled his normal way in IPL and I could assess those changes in him from the first warmup game itself. He was suddenly changed and Prasad was a coach. What was he doing there? When I, watching match on tv at home, can see what's wrong was happening with him, how Prasad could not get that whole tournament. What is coach is there for then? He should have talked to him at first instance.
Vilander Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 ^^ i am amazed that it quite lost on people here that prasad has turned some of indian bolwers into tundlers with his 'technical' inputs or the lack of it .
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