Crookbond Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Isn't that a bit of hopeful case then? Making some lucky connections? The police needs to gather/show better evidence. Who knows the police were wrong several times in their information and the one time, they got correct, they just arrested them. Thus, the so much delay in their arrest. 1. You have 100+ hours of audio recordings of prior conversations between players and bookies. These conversations detail the signs which would be used to signal intent. There is also talk about monetary transactions. 2. These signs are followed by the players and the description matches those stated "prior" the match. 3. There is an existent monetary trail of money been recovered between the bookies and players. In addition, to all of the above the fixing occurred in three matches - so the police did not jump the gun but rather waited on their suspicion and nabbed the culprits.
Mariyam Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 There are lot of loopholes in Delhi Police so called evidence .without any money transaction nothing can be proved . I believe the Delhi Police do have a monetary trail. And another thing, that has to be taken into account is that a lot of betting is notional, and final payments are done much later after settling all accounts. Meaning if you were to bet a few Rs on DD, you may not have to pay right away before you place your bet. And if you were to win, you yet again could keep the victory money in an a notional account from where you could bet more. etc. Ofcourse, with the cricketers, it wouldn't be notional currency, and there would be a solid money trail on the basis of which the Police have made the arrest.
someone Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 1. You have 100+ hours of audio recordings of prior conversations between players and bookies. These conversations detail the signs which would be used to signal intent. There is also talk about monetary transactions. 2. These signs are followed by the players and the description matches those stated "prior" the match. 3. There is an existent monetary trail of money been recovered between the bookies and players. In addition, to all of the above the fixing occurred in three matches - so the police did not jump the gun but rather waited on their suspicion and nabbed the culprits. ^^^^^ As I said that's something which Delhi police has to prove to both the court and public. They need to show the connective between both parties rather than just joining hopeful connections. That will take time and thus the law needs to fair and thereby we need to wait. Till, more facts get established, 3 players can remain suspended but criminals/cheaters not really. There has got to be some benefit of doubt to them. Also, another point especially to M2C, is that just suspicious/poor bowling can never be seen as the reason for spot-fixing
Crookbond Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 ^^^^^ As I said that's something which Delhi police has to prove to both the court and public. They need to show the connective between both parties rather than just joining hopeful connections. That will take time and thus the law needs to fair and thereby we need to wait. Till, more facts get established, 3 players can remain suspended but criminals/cheaters not really. There has got to be some benefit of doubt to them. Also, another point especially to M2C, is that just suspicious/poor bowling can never be seen as the reason for spot-fixing The Delhi police say that they have audio conversations and the pre/post match conversations match to those of the actions on field. In a landmark press conference, they actually presented the evidence. Generally, the police never presents its evidences. This tells me that the police are confident about their case. It has also been methodical in it's investigation which includes a clear money trail. Obviously, they are not guilty until proven - that goes without saying. Most people are commenting on probably course of law based on available information.
pinkfreud Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 There are lot of loopholes in Delhi Police so called evidence .without any money transaction nothing can be proved . With Chandila confessing, I doubt that will be a problem now.
someone Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 With Chandila confessing' date=' I doubt that will be a problem now.[/quote'] Where exactly has he confessed?
someone Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 The Delhi police say that they have audio conversations and the pre/post match conversations match to those of the actions on field. In a landmark press conference, they actually presented the evidence. Generally, the police never presents its evidences. This tells me that the police are confident about their case. It has also been methodical in it's investigation which includes a clear money trail. Obviously, they are not guilty until proven - that goes without saying. Most people are commenting on probably course of law based on available information. Look, both of us are after one thing which is the truth. It will take time as mentioned and thus we have wait. Thus as even you mentioned, a benefit should go to these players as well. And more importantly, the investigation itself has to investigated. As there may be names which may not have caught whether purposefully or mistakes by Police. In India, remember the investigation is as big or if not bigger scandal than the event itself.
vvvslaxman Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Look, both of us are after one thing which is the truth. It will take time as mentioned and thus we have wait. Thus as even you mentioned, a benefit should go to these players as well. And more importantly, the investigation itself has to investigated. As there may be names which may not have caught whether purposefully or mistakes by Police. In India, remember the investigation is as big or if not bigger scandal than the event itself. Reading all the news it appears they have a strong case against them. It is more likely they did it. In ICF we were suspecting so many incidents.. Noball, catch drops etc.. Nobody remotely suspected these 3. So it is highly improbable they would pick 3 random overs and arrest 3 random guys based on that.
pinkfreud Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Where exactly has he confessed? Sorry, I meant Chavan, not Chandila. Times Now reported it yesterday, claiming he had confessed to Delhi Police.
Crookbond Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Look, both of us are after one thing which is the truth. It will take time as mentioned and thus we have wait. Thus as even you mentioned, a benefit should go to these players as well. And more importantly, the investigation itself has to investigated. As there may be names which may not have caught whether purposefully or mistakes by Police. In India, remember the investigation is as big or if not bigger scandal than the event itself. Some points to remember 1. Money trail is hard evidence 2. Delhi Police has a very high conviction rate in the country 3. The court will obviously decide but it is not unfair to comment on the information on hand. We are not exaggerating anything but just merely commenting on an event. I would argue that the players shouldn't have been in touch with the bookies in the first place and therefore they deserve the public scrutiny.
Brainfade Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 What if the batsman took money to dog it in the very same over that the bowler took money to dog it? Some seriously pissed off bookies, I'd imagine.
JourneyMan Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Sounds way too risky. The batsman could mis-hit the delivery and end up getting caught out. Much easier for a batsman to get out on a duck or to get run out, or for a bowler to bowl a wide or a no-ball.
Crookbond Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 What if the batsman took money to dog it in the very same over that the bowler took money to dog it? Some seriously pissed off bookies' date= I'd imagine. What if the umpire has also fixed the very same over? :phehehe: And if you have read up on the incident; that is exactly what happened with Chandila. He indulged in spot fixing but forgot to give the signal. He ended up with a heated argument with the bookies and had to return the advance he got.
The Outsider Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Can't see the confusion here from people about how this is not a sure shot event - it doesn't have to be a sure shot event. If I offer you 5-1 odds on an event which will happen for certainty at least half the time will you not put everything you have in such a bet? The first time you bet a million dollars and even if you lose it, the next time you will make five million dollars, with a cool profit of four million. Certainty on individual events is not needed because on the whole the odds are stacked in your favor.
Sachinism Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Its not just that. Bookies offer "brackets", so suppose they offer 6 overs runs. A team starts off 3 overs 12 runs. You'd assume they're not going to get many off the next 3 either. So the bookies will offer something like 35.5. Most people would go 35.5 very much possible
SLICKR392 Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Bowl short and wide. Even a skunt like Faillard will hit you :idunno: Badri would leave such balls. :giggle:
vvvslaxman Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Its not just that. Bookies offer "brackets", so suppose they offer 6 overs runs. A team starts off 3 overs 12 runs. You'd assume they're not going to get many off the next 3 either. So the bookies will offer something like 35.5. Most people would go 35.5 very much possible Definitely some leeway is there.
someone Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 Well, then it's a case of probabilities. Because there is absolutely no way for a bowler to concede runs rather it is always the batsman who score the runs. The way this case has been going on the basics of some wild assumptions and flawed logic, a lot has to be seen really.
asterix Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 One sure way to give runs is to bowl a huge noball and ensuring a free hit... If this doesn't gets investigated I don't know what will...
Zelig Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 Its not just that. Bookies offer "brackets", so suppose they offer 6 overs runs. A team starts off 3 overs 12 runs. You'd assume they're not going to get many off the next 3 either. So the bookies will offer something like <35.5 or >35.5. Most people would go <35.5 as the team has set off slow. I know I have Sreesanth in my pocket, who will give away around 14 runs in an over, making the >35.5 very much possible This wouldn't work unless the captain is also involved.
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