Mission SA. How can India topple them in the tests?

[rkt.india]

The Ranji starts before the RSA tour- Zaheer may have 1-2 FC games to prove himself and that should be enough.

Thing is age is catching up to him and he is not going to be at his fittest at this age whatever effort he puts in and if he cannot give his 100%, it is not going help much like on Aus tour where he was below par. He will get his opportunity to prove his fitness and then only he should be picked. We should not make his place a certainty because it is not just about 2012. He could not last England tour in 2011 too. he could not play first test in SA in 2010 which cost us a lot. He could not play NZ test series in India last year and in 2010 as well. He has missed more than he has played in last 3-4 years. It is happening more regularly now. We have always been better playing debutant overseas.

[Muloghonto]

Thing is age is catching up to him and he is not going to be at his fittest at this age whatever effort he puts in and if he cannot give his 100%' date=' it is not going help much like on Aus tour where he was below par. [/quote'] So you basically want to write off the second most successful Indian pace bowler at the age of 34 because the best is already behind him. Sorry, but that is ridiculous. Does not matter. If he proves fit for 1-2 FC games prior to the tour, he should go. Period.

[kubrickian]

India is still a couple of pacers short to do any real damage in SA series. This is where the selectors need to be pro active. They have been doing a good job recently as we saw results in Ind Vs Aus test series and in Champions Trophy. They need to pick 3-4 pacers and play them in Zimbabwe tour or A tour of SA and see how they bowl. Somebody like Mohit Sharma, Rahul Shukla(who showed he had raw pace in IPL), Ishwar Pandey(who picked truckload of wickets in FC), Dhawal Kulkarni could do the trick. I trust B Kumar, Umesh Yadav to do decently. If Zaheer could comeback and prove he is match fit, he should be the spear head with his experience and ability to move the ball. Only one spinner could play in SA unless the wicket is really dry. So one of Ashwin or Jadeja will play. The batting is inexperienced in SA conditions but I trust our batting lineup to put up a decent score on board. I dont trust Sachin to do well in tests anymore, especially in SA conditions. He failed even against Panesar who is not a great spinner by any means. He used to destroy the best spinners with ease when he was at his best. He was found out by Anderson even on flat tracks in India, how the hell is he going to bat against SA bowling attack in SA ? He didnt do much in Aus series other than a good knock in the first innings of first test. He wont play any serious cricket till SA series which is a long gap after Aus home series. It would be much better to have some other young batsman play in his place.

[rkt.india]

Does not matter. If he proves fit for 1-2 FC games prior to the tour, he should go. Period.

Because that will be a suicide like in England 2011.

[FischerTal]

Because that will be a suicide like in England 2011.

you are arguing with a brick wall. :two_thumbs_up:

[rkt.india]

India is still a couple of good pacers short to do any real damage in SA series. This is where the selectors need to be pro active. They have been doing a good job recently as we saw results in Ind Vs Aus test series and in Champions Trophy.

We have lot of pacers in FC, some can clock 140s too, but not one is experienced or good enough to be called world class and this has always been problem for us. We have always have to fight the war with rookies and wannabes. We have rarely battled a tour with experienced pacers. Every bowler who attains experience fades out before he could be called world class or compete at the highest level consistently. Likes of Sreesanth, Bala, Patha, Ishant, Munaf, RP all are examples of that. We can always make world class batsmen out of youngsters but we still dont know how to turn young hopefuls into high class fast bowlers.

[rkt.india]

you are arguing with a brick wall. :two_thumbs_up:

:giggle:

[kubrickian]

Because that will be a suicide like in England 2011.

Zaheer also played in Eng series in 2012 and didnt have problems with his fitness. You cant expect rookies like B Kumar, Umesh or some other inexperienced bowlers to do any damage in SA against batsmen like Smith, Amla, Kallis, ABDV etc. Look what happened to Pak bowlers in SA. They have played much better bowlers and won test matches easily against them. If Zaheer is match fit and bowling well, he should come back. Plain and simple.

[fineleg]

Guys, we will beat SA if we play Philander well. /thread

Carnish as always living in dream world, and when his predictions fall flat - he will come and say - "Oh I was just being optimistic, I wasn't saying it will surely happen" :hysterical: carnish - you have to admit, you have done this many times.

[Sidhoni]

Zak has to be there But more than the bowling the batting is a worry. Most haven't played in SA before so playing int'l cricket there for the first time that too against the likes of Steyn, Morkel and Philander is going to be really tough.

[rkt.india]

Zaheer also played in Eng series in 2012 and didnt have problems with his fitness. You cant expect rookies like B Kumar, Umesh or some other inexperienced bowlers to do any damage in SA against batsmen like Smith, Amla, Kallis, ABDV etc. Look what happened to Pak bowlers in SA. They have played much better bowlers and won test matches easily against them. If Zaheer is match fit and bowling well, he should come back. Plain and simple.

He was dropped mid series due to fitness, did you forget? He played for Mumbai after that but could not prove his fitness, in fact could not complete a single FC game after that. Playing itself is not good enough if one cannot give his 100%. Bowling in SA is all about length and line you bowl even if your not the quickest. Pak bowlers could not maintain that and paid for that and their batting was awful. I am confident that BK is going to do really well there. He is pretty much like in Philander mode who keeps it simple.i

[saneindian]

People still expect Zaheer to be back for test matches? Given his complete lack of fitness, safe to say its time to move on. BK, Umesh, Shami should be the pacers with 2 out of Dhawal, Kaul, Mohit, Ishant, Pankaj as backups. My choice would be Dhawal and Kaul but Ishant will retain his test spot now that he's taking wickets in ODIs. But to do well in SA we need the batting to score 300+ consistently. Shikhar, Pujara, Kohli should do well, will need support from others. Dhoni will also to have to converts 20s and 30s to bigger scores. Jaddu will be an interesting pick. Does he still have a place in the test 11 on those pitches?

[saneindian]

Zaheer also played in Eng series in 2012 and didnt have problems with his fitness. You cant expect rookies like B Kumar, Umesh or some other inexperienced bowlers to do any damage in SA against batsmen like Smith, Amla, Kallis, ABDV etc. Look what happened to Pak bowlers in SA. They have played much better bowlers and won test matches easily against them. If Zaheer is match fit and bowling well, he should come back. Plain and simple.

Zaheer in the side didn't help the team much in Australia either. The team is in a proper rebuilding stage and better t move on. Plus Zaheer has hardly been fit in last 12 months, plays a match, gets unfit, sits out for next few months. Had he gone to play county cricket and bowled a lot of overs, would have been different. But to expect him to comeback and do well in test matches looks unrealistic now. In Dec 2013, he will be 35+. Can't remember too many pacers doing well post that age, especially with spate of injuries Zaheer has had in last 2-3 years. As for Pak, their bowlers did ok in SA despite injury related troubles, batting was a major issue for them. Can't expect much from the bowlers when the team keeps getting shot for 49, 130-140 every time.

[Crookbond]

Zaheer was India's highest wicket taker in the Australia 2011 tour. Border Gavaskar Trophy 2011 - Most wickets No code has to be inserted here.

[Forever Indian]

I have a feeling Sir Jadeja will do well in SA and so should be given a chance. The main batsmen Amla, Kallis, ABD are all Right handers and he bowls really well to them. ALso even when not taking wickets he will keep the lines very tight which means that Ashwin or even the other pacers can attack from the other end. Knowing Dhoni very well he always wants to keep runs down, and goes on defensive if runs leak, so Jadeja will help in a way that we dont need to go onto defensive. Also in the Australia series the pitches were very flat, so incase the pitches are in such a way then Jadeja and Ashwin have more chance of picking wickets than our pacers. Don't go by Pak series, Pak lost more due to their batting than bowling. Also they did not have a left arm bowler like Sir :hatsoff:

[rkt.india]

Zaheer was India's highest wicket taker in the Australia 2011 tour. Border Gavaskar Trophy 2011 - Most wickets No code has to be inserted here.

Yes. Everyone knows that but was still below par, was too hot and cold, not a single 5-fer and you expect more from an experienced strike bowler. Ishant's failures also cost us a lot. We always lacked that third pacer and pace bowling unit bowling well in tandem. Hilfy had an SR of 37, Siddle 32, and Patto 40 that tells you how poor we bowled then.

[saneindian]

Zaheer was India's highest wicket taker in the Australia 2011 tour. Border Gavaskar Trophy 2011 - Most wickets No code has to be inserted here.

Of course he was, but we still ended up conceding 400+ regularly. So the Q is did Zak's presence in the side really help the younger bowlers perform, a fact I was trying to refer to.

[kumar713]

I have a feeling Sir Jadeja will do well in SA and so should be given a chance. The main batsmen Amla, Kallis, ABD are all Right handers and he bowls really well to them. ALso even when not taking wickets he will keep the lines very tight which means that Ashwin or even the other pacers can attack from the other end. Knowing Dhoni very well he always wants to keep runs down, and goes on defensive if runs leak, so Jadeja will help in a way that we dont need to go onto defensive. Also in the Australia series the pitches were very flat, so incase the pitches are in such a way then Jadeja and Ashwin have more chance of picking wickets than our pacers. Don't go by Pak series, Pak lost more due to their batting than bowling. Also they did not have a left arm bowler like Sir :hatsoff:

So u r saying Amla,Abd,Kallis doesn't know how to play darts.They are not crap aussie batsmen.Jadeja will do well but don't expect him to take loads of wickets like how he did against aussies.

[Crookbond]

I was commenting on the fact someone just said "Zaheer did not have much impact on the Australia tour." If taking 15 wickes and being the highest wicket taker is not much impact, IDK what is then. Btw, Zaheer bowled lesser innings that Hifenhaus and Siddle.

[rkt.india]

I was commenting on the fact someone just said "Zaheer did not have much impact on the Australia tour." If taking 15 wickes and being the highest wicket taker is not much impact, IDK what is then. Btw, Zaheer bowled lesser innings that Hifenhaus and Siddle.

Impact is what lets you win the match and there was nothing like that in his bowling on Aus tour. Averaging 32, SR of 58 is not called impact on pitches which had enough for him to extract.