Ganguly and Overseas

[Lord]

the only issue i have with MSD is his negative tactics. Whatching Sir bowl (ie the way he bowled) was depressing in the second test. Reminded me of Giles under Naseer (as slickr would say)

Sir bowling was only good thing about our bowling lol

[CG]

Ganguly backed Parthiv, Yuvraj (in Tests), Kaif (in Tests), himself :cantstop:, . Don't think Gangu actaully had a great rapport with his fellow players. Remember his much publicized argument with Dravid. Then his comments about Dravid declaring when Tendu was on 194. Why would Tendu say "Dhoni is the best captain he played under". Gangu had lot of ego. But on the field he was not really that enterprising. Doesn't mean Dhoni is good. Both are bad in their own way. But Dhoni should increase his expectation from his bowlers 10 times more than what he expects now. he is setting a low expectation level, and whenever they meet them, he says bowlers bowled well. Backing is one thing, not toally expecting something else. If he had done that guys like Ishant would not be part of his scheme.

Ganguly captaincy is rated highly as he made a team after match fixing saga.those times quota selection was even more rampant and ganguly backed his players be it bhajji,sehwag,yuvi,Kaif ,zak ,nehra. He had some passion and some attitude be it 2001 which was biggest test series win by an indian team imo,we were bad abroad but he was responsible for change in attitude of trying to do well overseas and some of best test wins be in headingly,adelaide or in wi ,pakistans series win against good sides came under him,We grew as team under dravid then kumble and peaked for a period under dhoni to fall again. He became stagnant and his bad performances made him a burden from 2003,but kudos to him to rediscover himself and he should thank greg for that. He had some tactical gems like in out field to haydos and wanting and backing fast bowlers .He was not the best captain tactically that was dravid and k umble was the best leader but i rememebrr ganguly for his talent spotting & backing guys like dhoni and passion with attitude.

[vvvslaxman]

Ganguly captaincy is rated highly as he made a team after match fixing saga.those times quota selection was even more rampant and ganguly backed his players be it bhajji,sehwag,yuvi,Kaif ,zak ,nehra. He had some passion and some attitude be it 2001 which was biggest test series win by an indian team imo,we were bad abroad but he was responsible for change in attitude of trying to do well overseas and some of best test wins be in headingly,adelaide or in wi ,pakistans series win against good sides came under him,We grew as team under dravid then kumble and peaked for a period under dhoni to fall again. He became stagnant and his bad performances made him a burden from 2003,but kudos to him to rediscover himself and he should thank greg for that. He had some tactical gems like in out field to haydos and wanting and backing fast bowlers .He was not the best captain tactically that was dravid and k umble was the best leader but i rememebrr ganguly for his talent spotting & backing guys like dhoni and passion with attitude.

Similarly Dhoni also had some positives. He is not a total douchebag as some of us make him out to be. My only gripe he has immense power. But not utilizing properly> he can unearth a whole generation of new crop of bowlers if he puts his mind to it. But post IPL things are not entirely in his control i suppose. Too much commercialization has led to increase in favoritism. Even Ganguly would have struggled in this era.

[CG]

Similarly Dhoni also had some positives. He is not a total douchebag as some of us make him out to be. My only gripe he has immense power. But not utilizing properly> he can unearth a whole generation of new crop of bowlers if he puts his mind to it. But post IPL things are not entirely in his control i suppose. Too much commercialization has led to increase in favoritism. Even Ganguly would have struggled in this era.

I feel dhonis captaincy has stalled after 2011 .There is a point when u achieved all and as they say its better to die a hero than to see yourself turn in to the villain.

[mancalledsting]

A team which hasn't won a single test in 15 years out of SC, few test wins and series draws are considered a step in the right direction. You can't become a world beater within a span of one tour. A team which has previously won in England, has challenged Aus/SA, has won in WI goes on to lose 2.5 days by innings, goes on to lose 8-0 without any intent, it is considered a step in the wrong direction. Hence Dhoni gets so much stick.

Exactly

[putrevus]

How can Ganguly be credited for spotting the talent is beyond me, he backed some of the talent he was given yes, as captain he was okay in odis but Dhoni is far better captain in odis. In tests he was as awful as Dhoni, with fast bowlers but Dhoni is very good with spin bowlers which Ganguly never was tactically. Ganguly forgetting that tends to blow his horn about his team's overseas exploits but we did not see him winning anything anywhere either.

[CG]

How can Ganguly be credited for spotting the talent is beyond me, he backed some of the talent he was given yes, as captain he was okay in odis but Dhoni is far better captain in odis. In tests he was as awful as Dhoni, with fast bowlers but Dhoni is very good with spin bowlers which Ganguly never was tactically. Ganguly forgetting that tends to blow his horn about his team's overseas exploits but we did not see him winning anything anywhere either.

We did not have fast bowlers .Ganguly was as good with spinners .India drew series in england,aus its a dream now.

[vvvslaxman]

We did not have fast bowlers .Ganguly was as good with spinners .India drew series in england,aus its a dream now.

You have to grant this England is side much better than the one that we faced there. We have to factor in lot of aspects. Player burn outs due to IPL etc was not there. Transition issues. Dhoni definitely has lot of scope for improvement. Ganguly also had lot of scope for improvement. His form disintegrated to a point that he was one of the reason why Indian batting suffered. The two mega flop series would not have been 0-1 or 0-2 even under Mike Brearely if the same batting performance was going to be repeated. Both have done some good for India. Dhoni looks terrible because hsi side touched great peaks then his side touched abysmal depths. Lot of achievements, lot of absolute faiulers. Ganguly neither touched great peak nor touched failures. An in between side in the ICC ranking. Under Dhoni no.1 ranking, ODI no.1 ranking, world cup, wordl T20 then we have on the other hand 0-8, 0-3 in two world T20s, home series loss against ENgland. which one would you prefer An in between side who never really achieved anything ground breaking but managed to stay above mediocrity or a side that reaches absolute peaks and at times floats in mediocrity.

[CG]

You have to grant this England is side much better than the one that we faced there. We have to factor in lot of aspects. Player burn outs due to IPL etc was not there. Transition issues. Dhoni definitely has lot of scope for improvement. Ganguly also had lot of scope for improvement. His form disintegrated to a point that he was one of the reason why Indian batting suffered. The two mega flop series would not have been 0-1 or 0-2 even under Mike Brearely if the same batting performance was going to be repeated. Both have done some good for India. Dhoni looks terrible because hsi side touched great peaks then his side touched abysmal depths. Lot of achievements, lot of absolute faiulers. Ganguly neither touched great peak nor touched failures. An in between side in the ICC ranking. Under Dhoni no.1 ranking, ODI no.1 ranking, world cup, wordl T20 then we have on the other hand 0-8, 0-3 in two world T20s, home series loss against ENgland. which one would you prefer An in between side who never really achieved anything ground breaking but managed to stay above mediocrity or a side that reaches absolute peaks and at times floats in mediocrity.

I do not think the england side in 2012 is much better than the england side they had in 2002 at home ,they were hard to beat at home then and of a great run with a attack of flint off,caddick,haggard,jones. Dhonis looks terrible because he hang on after 8-0.Ganguly got the sack at the right time and came back a better player.

[putrevus]

We did not have fast bowlers .Ganguly was as good with spinners .India drew series in england,aus its a dream now.

Under Dhoni we drew series against SA, won in WI, NZ drew against SL none of which Ganguly ever could do. what fast bowlers do we have now which he did not have then. Only spinner who did well under him was Bhajji who always developed mysterious injuries when Indian team toured overseas playing tough opponents. He yoyoed Kumble like anything and not selecting him over that fricking dinesh mongia for world cup final just to continue with winning combination. the guy who had some balls to do something about weak bowling was Dravid who played with five bowlers but got lambasted because he lost couple of tests.He at least tried to address the issue. Drawing a series against a putrid England team is no achievement and that series against Australia was best batting ever displayed by Indian team against a very ordinary Australia bowling attack which has names like Brad williams and bracken.

[CG]

Under Dhoni we drew series against SA, won in WI, NZ drew against SL none of which Ganguly ever could do. what fast bowlers do we have now which he did not have then. Only spinner who did well under him was Bhajji who always developed mysterious injuries when Indian team toured overseas playing tough opponents. He yoyoed Kumble like anything and not selecting him over that fricking dinesh mongia for world cup final just to continue with winning combination. the guy who had some balls to do something about weak bowling was Dravid who played with five bowlers but got lambasted because he lost couple of tests.He at least tried to address the issue. Drawing a series against a putrid England team is no achievement and that series against Australia was best batting ever displayed by Indian team against a very ordinary Australia bowling attack which has names like Brad williams and bracken.

WI,nz are not the sides they were even in 2002 ,sa series was good though. Australia had gillespie,lee,macgill. we have bowlers who average below 40 unlike the likes of agarkar,nehra.,minnow bashes irfan comapred to those guys ishant,sreesanth,munaf,r.p,p.k,b.k,yadav are leagues ahead.even zak was a diff bowler as he just and one swing. When our problems of opening with gambler and decent quicks ,a good lower orderwere fixed we saw what we would do in eng 2007 under dravid and 2008 aus with kumble and 2010 sa under dhoni which contributed to no 1 ranking.

[putrevus]

WI,nz are not the sides they were,sa series was good though. Australia had gillespie,lee,macgill. we have bowlers who average below 40 unlike the likes of agarkar,nehra.,minnow bashes irfan comapred to those guys ishant,sreesanth,munaf,r.p,p.k,b.k are leagues ahead.even zak was a diff bowler as he just and one swing.

Bottom line both were/are gutless instead of addressing the weakness bowling and backing their strength batting they did opposite. Dravid tried or was he forced by Chappell we dont know, that was only Indian team tried to make a bowler into all rounder and played five bowlers. jadeja debut series was other one.

[vvvslaxman]

WI,nz are not the sides they were even in 2002 ,sa series was good though. Australia had gillespie,lee,macgill. we have bowlers who average below 40 unlike the likes of agarkar,nehra.,minnow bashes irfan comapred to those guys ishant,sreesanth,munaf,r.p,p.k,b.k,yadav are leagues ahead.even zak was a diff bowler as he just and one swing. When our problems of opening with gambler and decent quicks ,a good lower orderwere fixed we saw what we would do in eng 2007 under dravid and 2008 aus with kumble and 2010 sa under dhoni which contributed to no 1 ranking.

Still you can't explain how a batting lnie up that could not post more than 300 runs in any of the 16 innings could win under any captain.

[CG]

Bottom line both were/are gutless instead of addressing the weakness bowling and backing their strength batting they did opposite. Dravid tried or was he forced by Chappell we dont know, that was only Indian team tried to make a bowler into all rounder and played five bowlers. jadeja debut series was other one.

Playing 5 bowlers away is not going to work unless u have proper seam bowling all rounder.Its more about bowlers who can take wickets and the planning.the eng 2007 tour was properly planned with practice matches and bowling plans were implemented,dravid had said he wants the bowlers to pitch up to get swing even if they were driven and they did exactly that.Planning plays a vital role.

[CG]

Still you can't explain how a batting lnie up that could not post more than 300 runs in any of the 16 innings could win under any captain.

nobody asked dhoni to retain the same lineup when we were getting hammered.he had to as he himself was struggling.a struggling captain has less authority

[saneindian]

Bottom line both were/are gutless instead of addressing the weakness bowling and backing their strength batting they did opposite. Dravid tried or was he forced by Chappell we dont know, that was only Indian team tried to make a bowler into all rounder and played five bowlers. jadeja debut series was other one.

In how many matches? Be it the series in WI, Eng we played 4 bowlers. Did play 5 pacers in just a couple of tests.

[putrevus]

Playing 5 bowlers away is not going to work unless u have proper seam bowling all rounder.Its more about bowlers who can take wickets and the planning.the eng 2007 tour was properly planned with practice matches and bowling plans were implemented' date='dravid had said he wants the bowlers to pitch up to get swing even if they were driven and they did exactly that.Planning plays a vital role.[/quote'] if you call 2007 england tour a success then Indian team has long way to go. playing 5 bowlers is the only way for this team both home and away against good batting sides their 4 bowlers it does not matter who they are, will not be winning many matches

[CG]

if you call 2007 england tour a success then Indian team has long way to go. playing 5 bowlers is the only way for this team both home and away against good batting sides their 4 bowlers it does not matter who they are, will not be winning many matches

we won the test series and dominated the last 2 tests.

[South_Paw]

nobody asked dhoni to retain the same lineup when we were getting hammered.he had to as he himself was struggling.a struggling captain has less authority

So you say you would have supported if he had thrown out Sachin, Dravid, Sehwag and Gambhir straight away? Even when that would have been the most logical decision the heaven would have been broken down in ICF (ofcourse, none would have cared). But still though he was unable to do that directly, he did bully out the hacks. And struggling captain? WTF then Ganguly is? He struggled like a gell in Tests & ODIs at home and away. After taking up the captaincy his over all success as a captain is far more lesser than that of Dhoni. Remember Dhoni just a WK-Bat.

[CG]

So you say you would have supported if he had thrown out Sachin, Dravid, Sehwag and Gambhir straight away? Even when that would have been the most logical decision the heaven would have been broken down in ICF (ofcourse, none would have cared). But still though he was unable to do that directly, he did bully out the hacks. And struggling captain? WTF then Ganguly is? He struggled like a gell in Tests & ODIs at home and away. After taking up the captaincy his over all success as a captain is far more lesser than that of Dhoni. Remember Dhoni just a WK-Bat.

He is the captain he could have but his own performances were as bad . Yes ganguly struggled in tests and that was the reason he was dropped as captain and form the team ,expect same with dhoni nothing more or less.Wicket keeper batsman in modern times have been teams best player like abdv even prior in few series.Pror was dropped even though he is averaging over 41.