BeautifulGame Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Everytime we struggle overseas under Dhoni the myth of how we performed greatly overseas under Ganguly is bought up here in ICF and everyone keeps on harping up about Ganguly grooming great fast bowlers. Yet these the averages of fast bowlers under Ganguly away from subcontinent(Zim not included) Zak averages 36+ Nehra ave 48 (Played 13 tests) Agarkar 48 and Irfan Pathan 50. The only bowler with decent stats Srinath (31 + ave ) was already well established before Ganguly became captain http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;captain_involve=2024;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;orderby=bowling_average;template=results;type=bowling Great captain for fast bowlers based on exactly what? And before everyone starts harping on results Ganguly won 3 tests out of 17 away from sub continent. We couldnt even beat WI or NZL or England (who were below ave at that time) in test series And our 2 of that test wins were achieved mainly with batting (Scored 550 and 600 in 1st innings) .Heck played both Bhajji and Kumble in headingly so much for fast bowling exploits. Ganguly's main achievements were due to the draws he achieved and that were mainly due to the incredible batting line up we had.And we suffered white washes under Dhoni becoz that great lineup were in their last legs.Now we will again strat drawing tests(winning occasional ones) becoz we have again found an excellent batting line up. But the harsh truth is our fast bowling sucked under Ganguly and continues to such under Dhoni. Not much different and unless it improves we will struggle to win tests overseas.Atleast Ganguly was lucky to have had Kumble(Our greatest spinner in history) in his attack . And we still managed to draw vs NZL and Pak at home.Dont remember whitewashing anyone at home either .
fineleg Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 statistics does not convey everything. Hands down, the worst (mis)handling of fast bowlers (forget results, just mishandling) - no one can compete with the Mule Singh Dhobi on this.
GautiMaan Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Nothing can justify his continued selection of Ishant
gattaca Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Nothing can justify his continued selection of Ishant http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html Can you believe it Ishant played 17 matches and still sucks. He is only next to zak iin terms of experience. I Sharma 2009-2013 17 29 634.5 115 2224 54 6/55 10/108 41.18
saneindian Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Ishant under Dhoni - 40 tests, 115 wickets@39 Zaheer under Ganguly - 36 tests, 102 wickets@36 Ishant please have a 2nd part of the career as good as Zak was from 2007-2010
GautiMaan Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html Can you believe it Ishant played 17 matches and still sucks. He is only next to zak iin terms of experience. I Sharma 2009-2013 17 29 634.5 115 2224 54 6/55 10/108 41.18 Part of the blame must go to the moronic selectors too,one good game for Delhi in the Ranji trophy and he was back,and Dhoni will always give preference to his favourites if they're in the squad
Number Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 A team which hasn't won a single test in 15 years out of SC, few test wins and series draws are considered a step in the right direction. You can't become a world beater within a span of one tour. A team which has previously won in England, has challenged Aus/SA, has won in WI goes on to lose 2.5 days by innings, goes on to lose 8-0 without any intent, it is considered a step in the wrong direction. Hence Dhoni gets so much stick.
G_B_ Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 agree with fineleg on this one. I am sick and tired of Dhoni's negative tactics. Constant in out fields. Whats with the fear of losing all the time? Take a chance and if you lose you lose. Statistically Ganguly might be inferior but atleast he played a sexy brand of cricket. There comes a point whereby as a fan you want to be entertained even while bowling.
b555 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 statistics does not convey everything. Hands down, the worst (mis)handling of fast bowlers (forget results, just mishandling) - no one can compete with the Mule Singh Dhobi on this. haha, itna gussa accha nahi hai
Sidhoni Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Ganguly is way too overrated here. People go on about how he backed 'fast' bowlers but a fair share of trundlers played under him as well.
BeautifulGame Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 A team which hasn't won a single test in 15 years out of SC, few test wins and series draws are considered a step in the right direction. You can't become a world beater within a span of one tour. This isnt about world beater but about our fast bowling resources under Ganguly for which Dhoni is getting the stick alot. So the simple fact is our fast bowlers struggled just as much under Ganguly (if not more) than they have under Dhoni. Our overseas improvement under Ganguly has mainly to do with the batting line up we had and not to forget Kumble.Thats why we started drawing many tests and ofcourse having a mighty effective spinner overseas helped. The point is that Ganguly didnt groom any great seam attack and this improving our performances outside sub continent unlike some like to believe.We improved and competed overseas mainly becoz our batting and Kumble improved greatly. A team which has previously won in England, has challenged Aus/SA, has won in WI goes on to lose 2.5 days by innings, goes on to lose 8-0 without any intent, it is considered a step in the wrong direction. Hence Dhoni gets so much stick. We also won in NZL WI and drew in SA under Dhoni.That deosnt mean he was a great captain then just like he wasnt poor when we were white washed.The fact our fortunes depend on batting and hence did greatly in SA WI and NZL under Dhoni. And our batting were on their last legs and hence we were white washed under Dhoni in Aus and Eng. Now that we have really strong batting unit again we will compete against stronger teams and probably win against weaker teams. We never won a test series overseas under Ganguly not becoz he was poor but becoz our pace attack was rubbish.Same with Dhoni Regardless of how some want believe in fancy stories of Ganguly grooming great fast bowling units and improving our performances overseas the truth our pace attack was just as poor under him.
vvvslaxman Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Gangu was also bad with tactic. I wrote blog after blog criticizing his weird field set. One thing he was different though he would push his bowlers hard on the field to an extent he would pick a fight with them like Srinath/Ganguly spat in West Indies.
SLICKR392 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Ganguly and his overseas record is a ****ing myth.
Sachin=GOD Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Ganguly may not have had a great overseas record but he was a way better Captain than Dhoni.
ThePhenomenal1 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Dhoni has good times and bad times like any captain. But dhoni backs the worst players when there are men in form ready to win matches for india. Maybe 1-2 of his backings end up becoming match winners, e.g jadeja (bowling) and rohit (odis). Dhoni has backed vinay, ishant, chawla, ashwin at times, and raina (played him in tests, never dropped him), csk bias is also evident. Ganguly also backed a few bad players but he backed some great ones like yuvraj, zaheer, bhaji, sehwag (intrumental to our wc win), and still has a great eye for talent. His idealogy is at least in the right direction: pick fast bowlers, back them, groom them. need to win overseas etc. Execution may not have been perfect but it helped india become competitive overseas. Dhoni and fletcher are 0-9. That's appaling. We drew a test we should have won and lost a test we were almost guaranteed not to lose. That's dhoni for you. We say he finds a way to win in ODIs, but in tests he always finds a way NOT to win. Picks poor pacers and benches good talent. Defensive attitude where he is scared of losing. Rubbish tactics when he uses his pacers. Overall point: We need a ganguly mentality more than a dhoni one, in tests.
Lord Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Dravid was our best overseas captain.bit under rated in that regard.handled fast bowlers very well
vvvslaxman Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Ganguly backed Parthiv, Yuvraj (in Tests), Kaif (in Tests), himself :cantstop:, . Don't think Gangu actaully had a great rapport with his fellow players. Remember his much publicized argument with Dravid. Then his comments about Dravid declaring when Tendu was on 194. Why would Tendu say "Dhoni is the best captain he played under". Gangu had lot of ego. But on the field he was not really that enterprising. Doesn't mean Dhoni is good. Both are bad in their own way. But Dhoni should increase his expectation from his bowlers 10 times more than what he expects now. he is setting a low expectation level, and whenever they meet them, he says bowlers bowled well. Backing is one thing, not toally expecting something else. If he had done that guys like Ishant would not be part of his scheme.
vvvslaxman Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Dravid was our best overseas captain.bit under rated in that regard.handled fast bowlers very well +1 He was good. Kumble also had lot of respect from his fellow players. On that score Dhoni also commands respect. But he just doesn't make use of it.
G_B_ Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 the only issue i have with MSD is his negative tactics. Whatching Sir bowl (ie the way he bowled) was depressing in the second test. Reminded me of Giles under Naseer (as slickr would say)
div Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Ganguly may not have had a great overseas record but he was a way better Captain than Dhoni. ur GOD :winky: "He [Dhoni] is the best captain I have played under," Tendulkar said in Mumbai. http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/story/509507.html
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