Ian Chappell: India may not win Tests under another captain, but they have no chance under Dhoni

[rkt.india]

Why are we pushing 0-8 record on him alone, all the heavy weights including the great sachin were there and played atrociously . Dhobi would have been long gone if CT win along 4-0 whitewash were not there. What can he do when the lead spinners of his team could not even buy one fricking wicket when they had other team on ropes.you cant fault dhobi there, his team selections were atrocious, I still have no clue behind some persistent selections. Only reasoning behind those selections i can think of are he fears the new guys turn out to be jaydev unadkats , where he was made to look almost comical .

It is not just about 0-8. It is a team game and team is to blame but his captaincy tactics are moronic. He tries to contain in tests overseas. He just does not understand the game our of his turf. You cannot win overseas test by containing and will also fill the squad with spinners who cannot do zilch on those pitches. His handling of pacers is another issue. A guy like Umesh, after a bright start to his career should have flourished but rather he was warming benches, missed so many tests in last 1 year or so. No one can believe a guy who was our #1 test fast bowler before his injury, did not play last 6 tests we played. While a captain is someone who must identify and form a test attack, they are only getting worse.

[MCcricket]

If test cricket is the real game and he not judged per odi and t20 Dhoni has taken our cricket back 50 years, he has caused damaged to the team , test cricket and India as a test team,he should be kicked out of test side ASAP

[saneindian]

13 tests and counting - Eng, Aus, SA, NZ- the cycle is complete and restarts now :((

[Austin 3:!6]

So u have debates on internet forum expecting bcci hear you?Are u high.

No brother I don't do drugs to get high :icflove: Whatever I said is satyawachan. Criticism of Dhoni sometime goes over board in this forum. It was a collective failure of team India in away tests and to a certain extent criticizing Dhoni is also fair. But to always blame him, even team selection is little too much.

[putrevus]

It is not just about 0-8. It is a team game and team is to blame but his captaincy tactics are moronic. He tries to contain in tests overseas. He just does not understand the game our of his turf. You cannot win overseas test by containing and will also fill the squad with spinners who cannot do zilch on those pitches. His handling of pacers is another issue. A guy like Umesh' date=' after a bright start to his career should have flourished but rather he was warming benches, missed so many tests in last 1 year or so. No one can believe a guy who was our #1 test fast bowler before his injury, did not play last 6 tests we played. While a captain is someone who must identify and form a test attack, they are only getting worse.[/quote'] Why are we putting selection issues on dhoni, i did analyze dhobi after joburg test where he over attacked and lost the test only to be saved by cowardice of south africans but you cannot ask dhoni to take wickets for his bowlers, they are just useless. Let us not make umesh yadav into dale steyn, after his injury he did get chances in odis after he was literally abused by tharanga and co he was dropped. He is not lighting up domestic scene either, . Yes he and pandey should have gotten some chances on last two tours but dhobi did not give them any chances , i have no idea behind those decisions, it still baffles me, What about idiot joker patil yadav is in the test team for SA but even without playing any test he is not in the test squad in nz whom do you blame. Yadav is bowling in nets maybe he is as wayward there as he is in the real matches. Zak was done but if he says i am ok if you were captain also you would play him too given his stand as bowler in indian cricket, it is good thing that dhobi does not have to make that call.

[Unleashed]

Chappell is right. When we go abroad, Dhoni is next to useless with the bat plus his defensive tactics hampers the team far too often. Trouble is I don't see a captain in this indian team. Kohli perhaps?

[rkt.india]

Why are we putting selection issues on dhoni, i did analyze dhobi after joburg test where he over attacked and lost the test only to be saved by cowardice of south africans but you cannot ask dhoni to take wickets for his bowlers, they are just useless. Let us not make umesh yadav into dale steyn, after his injury he did get chances in odis after he was literally abused by tharanga and co he was dropped. He is not lighting up domestic scene either, . Yes he and pandey should have gotten some chances on last two tours but dhobi did not give them any chances , i have no idea behind those decisions, it still baffles me, What about idiot joker patil yadav is in the test team for SA but even without playing any test he is not in the test squad in nz whom do you blame. Yadav is bowling in nets maybe he is as wayward there as he is in the real matches. Zak was done but if he says i am ok if you were captain also you would play him too given his stand as bowler in indian cricket, it is good thing that dhobi does not have to make that call.

Why not to blame Dhoni? He was in the squad of SA and NZ and WI before that. Dhoni did not play him. If captain wishes, he will get whoever he wants. Umesh was never a great ODI bowler to be taken his ODI form for tests.

[putrevus]

Why not to blame Dhoni? He was in the squad of SA and NZ and WI before that. Dhoni did not play him. If captain wishes' date=' he will get whoever he wants. Umesh was never a great ODI bowler to be taken his ODI form for tests.[/quote'] that is a folly if captain selects all the team what are selectors for?? If Yadav is as talented as you all think why was he out performed in domestic cricket by trundlers, Is he just made for test cricket only??? he is no spring chicken either he is 26. While I agree he should have been in the team for England but let us not make him something he is not, his Eco rate in odi is over 6 which is so hard to do it even if you are trying to stink. in tests his eco rate is over 4.0 he is kind of guy who will lose u a test in a session and he is no MJ either who can scare people to put up with his erratic bowling. At what point we shift the blame from captain and selectors and put it on players, umesh yadav has so many other avenues to show his talent and be reckoned. Bhuvi was dropped but he made selectors and dhobi notice his improvement in his death bowling, I did not see any such improvement in Yadav. To me more I look at Yadav the more he reminds me of Malcolm Sami, I hope I am wrong in that assessment.

[rkt.india]

that is a folly if captain selects all the team what are selectors for?? If Yadav is as talented as you all think why was he out performed in domestic cricket by trundlers, Is he just made for test cricket only??? he is no spring chicken either he is 26. While I agree he should have been in the team for England but let us not make him something he is not, his Eco rate in odi is over 6 which is so hard to do it even if you are trying to stink. in tests his eco rate is over 4.0 he is kind of guy who will lose u a test in a session and he is no MJ either who can scare people to put up with his erratic bowling. At what point we shift the blame from captain and selectors and put it on players, umesh yadav has so many other avenues to show his talent and be reckoned. Bhuvi was dropped but he made selectors and dhobi notice his improvement in his death bowling, I did not see any such improvement in Yadav. To me more I look at Yadav the more he reminds me of Malcolm Sami, I hope I am wrong in that assessment.

He has played only 9 tests with 32 wickets at 32 with an SR of 46. We do not have Marshalls sitting out so that we left a guy out who has an SR of 46. He is a wicket taker which he has shown in little test cricket he has played. We will never be able to create fast bowlers with this mentality. We will never get them readymade. Regarding BK, he did it in ODIs. Umesh isn't suited for ODIs as of now. Why don't we judge him based on what he has done in tests at the start rather than ODIs. He will suck but he is the one who will bring you wickets in tests whether India or overseas. Even bad in LOIs, Umesh has 2 MOMs in IPL this year.

[keith]

Here's Graeme Smith's thoughts on Ian Chappell's article:

I do find Ian chappels views on leadership boring' date='archaic and biased. [/quote']

[putrevus]

He has played only 9 tests with 32 wickets at 32 with an SR of 46. We do not have Marshalls sitting out so that we left a guy out who has an SR of 46. He is a wicket taker which he has shown in little test cricket he has played. We will never be able to create fast bowlers with this mentality. We will never get them readymade. Regarding BK, he did it in ODIs. Umesh isn't suited for ODIs as of now. Why don't we judge him based on what he has done in tests at the start rather than ODIs. He will suck but he is the one who will bring you wickets in tests whether India or overseas. Even bad in LOIs, Umesh has 2 MOMs in IPL this year.

but look at his performances getting odd wicket here and there in India when spinners were doing major damage , I dont call it a feather in his cap, he played 4 tests overseas except one test he was ordinary in other three. Let us judge him based in FC stats , is anything stopping him to pick up wickets there. who is stopping him to do well in FC, if he that good and better why is he not topping the list there. While I agree we need fast bowlers and put up with their waywardness , but Yadav is not Akram or Waqar he is just not that fast.He is fast by Indian standards that's all and he is too hittable who cannot create any pressure. That fellow Wahab who took five wickets in world cup semis against us is not a part of their team, he is just no consistent and leaks too many runs and he is easily 10 to 15 k faster than Yadav, we all agree those guys know something about fast bowling. If MJ was wayward he would not have created this monster and Yadav's speed is great by Indian standards but not for other teams. I still would have him in the squad though and play him in first test over ishant.

[Gollum]

Don't mind Dhoni the batsmen, even in tests. But it is Dhoni the corrupt, malicious, scheming,moronic captain that makes me hate him.

[rkt.india]

but look at his performances getting odd wicket here and there in India when spinners were doing major damage , I dont call it a feather in his cap, he played 4 tests overseas except one test he was ordinary in other three. Let us judge him based in FC stats , is anything stopping him to pick up wickets there. who is stopping him to do well in FC, if he that good and better why is he not topping the list there. While I agree we need fast bowlers and put up with their waywardness , but Yadav is not Akram or Waqar he is just not that fast.He is fast by Indian standards that's all and he is too hittable who cannot create any pressure. That fellow Wahab who took five wickets in world cup semis against us is not a part of their team, he is just no consistent and leaks too many runs and he is easily 10 to 15 k faster than Yadav, we all agree those guys know something about fast bowling. If MJ was wayward he would not have created this monster and Yadav's speed is great by Indian standards but not for other teams. I still would have him in the squad though and play him in first test over ishant.

That was just a fluke by Wahab and Yadav isn't 10-15kph slower than Wahab. Even in this IPl when he was concentrating on accuracy than pace, he clocked 149kph and Wahab must clock 160 to be 10k faster. Dont think Akram and Waqar were faster than him. He played 4 tests in Australia and he was good in 2 of them MCG and Perth. He averages 27 in India and his injury was a big reason we lost against England at home. Yes, he didn't bowl well in FC this season but captain and selector didn't do any good to his confidence.

[Cricket_Hacker]

Yea let's look at domestic performances,let's pick sandep dharma and vinay in tests

[putrevus]

That was just a fluke by Wahab and Yadav isn't 10-15kph slower than Wahab. Even in this IPl when he was concentrating on accuracy than pace, he clocked 149kph and Wahab must clock 160 to be 10k faster. Dont think Akram and Waqar were faster than him. He played 4 tests in Australia and he was good in 2 of them MCG and Perth. He averages 27 in India and his injury was a big reason we lost against England at home. Yes, he didn't bowl well in FC this season but captain and selector didn't do any good to his confidence.

clocking one ball at 149 does not make you pace bowler, bowling consistently over 90 is fast , he is medium fast and not fast. Waqar was faster and Akram could amp it up anytime he wanted. He was first choice in tests b4 his injury but after injury it has been slow for him.He has not played any tests since that injury and he has not done well in FC either. He can be india's dale steyn as he has an outswinger and pace to keep batsmen in the crease. Somebody was saying let us take vinay and sandeep since they took wickets , what is point in having FC if you are not rewarding the performers there.Nobody is saying pick them. but you have reward the performers there. Indian batsmen are picked on basis of FC cricket and those FC stats show that these batsmen have ability and temperament to bat long which is the most important aspect of test cricket batting. Indian fast bowlers are picked in team just based on potential without having to go thru the grind and learning the art of picking up wickets, which most of them never learn and start stinking the test team Either we get guys like Ishant sharma who has never learnt how to pick wickets, he was drafted on potential or become RP singhs who become lazy and fat once they get some money. Zak was a bust until he was kicked out of team and went and learnt the art of picking up wickets. 2007 tour to England. India had a very good fast bowling attack and was better than England but Broad and Anderson became world class and Indian bowlers went nowhere the main reason I feel is other than Zak ,never learnt how to take wickets in both innings match after match. Heck Ishant was hailed a some kind of hero based on one fricking spell ,next test he took zero wickets. You may not want to pick up trundlers who are doing well in FC but you want to pick fast bowlers who know how to take wickets otherwise india is not winning many tests. Guy like Varun Aaron is there in the squad but even if he is selected I highly doubt he will be any good, he no clue on how to take wickets consistently as he never had to learn. Frcking BCCI is not helping matters either they have to let these youngsters play in county cricket where they learn how to set up batsmen and learn finer aspects of the fast bowlers.

[Austin 3:!6]

Dhoni still our best test batsman for overseas tests. Here is a small video for you guys to enjoy. Cold blistery 1st day pitch in Edgbaston and Dhoni is the lone fighter :hatsoff: Hope he plays some more special innings this series. Go Mahi :cheer: jCIFdE7o9fU

[rkt.india]

clocking one ball at 149 does not make you pace bowler, bowling consistently over 90 is fast , he is medium fast and not fast. Waqar was faster and Akram could amp it up anytime he wanted. He was first choice in tests b4 his injury but after injury it has been slow for him.He has not played any tests since that injury and he has not done well in FC either. He can be india's dale steyn as he has an outswinger and pace to keep batsmen in the crease. Somebody was saying let us take vinay and sandeep since they took wickets , what is point in having FC if you are not rewarding the performers there.Nobody is saying pick them. but you have reward the performers there. Indian batsmen are picked on basis of FC cricket and those FC stats show that these batsmen have ability and temperament to bat long which is the most important aspect of test cricket batting. Indian fast bowlers are picked in team just based on potential without having to go thru the grind and learning the art of picking up wickets, which most of them never learn and start stinking the test team Either we get guys like Ishant sharma who has never learnt how to pick wickets, he was drafted on potential or become RP singhs who become lazy and fat once they get some money. Zak was a bust until he was kicked out of team and went and learnt the art of picking up wickets. 2007 tour to England. India had a very good fast bowling attack and was better than England but Broad and Anderson became world class and Indian bowlers went nowhere the main reason I feel is other than Zak ,never learnt how to take wickets in both innings match after match. Heck Ishant was hailed a some kind of hero based on one fricking spell ,next test he took zero wickets. You may not want to pick up trundlers who are doing well in FC but you want to pick fast bowlers who know how to take wickets otherwise india is not winning many tests. Guy like Varun Aaron is there in the squad but even if he is selected I highly doubt he will be any good, he no clue on how to take wickets consistently as he never had to learn. Frcking BCCI is not helping matters either they have to let these youngsters play in county cricket where they learn how to set up batsmen and learn finer aspects of the fast bowlers.

He did not bowl just one ball at 149. He bowled over 145 whenever he wanted. He was trying to swing the ball upfront bowling within himself and bowled quicker in the slog when he was going for yorkers and also concentrated on mixing his pace up in this IPL, not just bowling fast all the time. The reason he got success in this IPL and first time got MOMs in IPL, that too 2. By no means, he is medium fast. With this logic, even Steyn is medium fast because he too bowls within himself a lot of times. One does not need to bowl at the fastest all the time but must have the ability to crank it up when needed. Going all out all the time is what leads to injuries. Yadav had one off season this year where he was out form, otherwise he has always taken wickets despite playing on one of the flattest tracks of Nagpur most of the times, still has pretty acceptable average and SR in FC. Likes of Vinay Kumar and Sandeep bowl at seaming tracks of Mohali and Bangalore which are made to help their seamers and are not flat like usually in IPL or international matches. Yadav hardly gets to bowl on pitches like those. Once he bowled on a helpful pitch at Lahli, he bundled them out for 55. Regarding learning to take wickets, this is an art. Our bowlers do not keep things simple. Most of them try to do too much every ball and bowl different deliveries. Whether someone is bowling at 145 or 130, basics are same. A 145K bowler should not try to do different things than when a 130 bowler does, but what 145K bowler had is advantage of extra pace which he can use wisely by bowling bouncers. Otherwise, bowling in right areas is important, a 145K bowler has a bit more lee way in that regard but not much. This is what our bowlers need to learn likes of Shami, Umesh, and Aaron. They think if they are quick they can do anything, but they forget they only need to do what a BK does, try to hit right areas rather than bowling 6 different balls, especially in test cricket. This is where a bowling coach comes into play. I think Umesh did pretty well under Akram in IPL this season. He bowled lesser useless short balls that he used to bowl before and concentrated on swinging the ball at decent pace.

[CG]

Anybody who watched yadav play those tests would not write the rubbish as putrevus is.He looked the best fast bowler of both teams against england on a dead track.Actually he played a decisive role in england 2nd innings when cook was going great.Regarding Fc he played 3 matches and he did badly only against mumbai and after that he was picked for india team and warming the benches ,he should have got a chance now but he is dropped.Nobody is 145+ in a spell in tests.Its how much u can crank it up guys like steyn can crank it up when required and yadav can too.We are a poor bowling unit and we make it even worse by not selecting a wicket taker like yadav.I do not remember a indian bowler hitting aus batsman and destroying them like yadav did.

[CSK Fan]

Dhoni fans - We lost because entire team sucked. Why blame Dhoni? Others - So when it comes to the world cup at home, etc, it is because of Dhoni's captaincy? Dhoni can take credit for the form of Yuvraj, Raina at home? Dhoni fans - we lose overseas because our bowling sucks Others - So why not identify, select and groom fast bowlers? This problem has been around for too long now and we should stop using this as an excuse as Dhoni has been on the helm long enough to think of a strategy for this weakness. If you know something is a weakness, you should have a long term plan for it, not go back to trundlers and try to restrict I would take this excuse if Dhoni just became captain or it was one or two series. If you have a long term problem but have no plan, it is your own fault. Once or twice is an excuse, A decade isn't Dhoni fans - But we do not have any fast bowling talent even in domestics. Dhoni has to survive with whatever he has got and he tries to utilize it to the fullest Others- What plan does Dhoni and the selectors have to groom and utilize fast bowling resources? There is a reason even the CSK team under Dhoni is now full of trundlers and does not use fast bowlers. There is a reason why our fast bowlers fall along the way. Dhoni doesn't know how to utilize them as attacking options. His strategy is very simple, starve the opposition and then let them implode. However, this will never work with attacking bowlers who will either take wickets or go for runs. Dhoni's plans simply do not cover this aspect and that is why he is unsure how to utilize them. He asks them to bowl one side of the wicket or uses them very sporadically. Never going to work Dhoni fans - Selecting is the job of the selectors. Why blame Dhoni? Others - Are you kidding me? You really want me to believe that after so many years at the helm, he does not have the power to over-rule selectors and get whom he wants? He is definitely more powerful than anyone in BCCI except Srini. Heck, the entire selection panel once wanted him dropped and they were the ones who got removed, not Dhoni. If you are able to convince anyone that Umesh got dropped without consulting Dhoni, you have a good chance as a snake oil salesman. Each and every member of the squad is exactly whom Dhoni wants Dhoni fans - But our bowling is weak, what can Dhoni do? Others -??????

[putrevus]

He did not bowl just one ball at 149. He bowled over 145 whenever he wanted. He was trying to swing the ball upfront bowling within himself and bowled quicker in the slog when he was going for yorkers and also concentrated on mixing his pace up in this IPL, not just bowling fast all the time. The reason he got success in this IPL and first time got MOMs in IPL, that too 2. By no means, he is medium fast. With this logic, even Steyn is medium fast because he too bowls within himself a lot of times. One does not need to bowl at the fastest all the time but must have the ability to crank it up when needed. Going all out all the time is what leads to injuries. Yadav had one off season this year where he was out form, otherwise he has always taken wickets despite playing on one of the flattest tracks of Nagpur most of the times, still has pretty acceptable average and SR in FC. Likes of Vinay Kumar and Sandeep bowl at seaming tracks of Mohali and Bangalore which are made to help their seamers and are not flat like usually in IPL or international matches. Yadav hardly gets to bowl on pitches like those. Once he bowled on a helpful pitch at Lahli, he bundled them out for 55. Regarding learning to take wickets, this is an art. Our bowlers do not keep things simple. Most of them try to do too much every ball and bowl different deliveries. Whether someone is bowling at 145 or 130, basics are same. A 145K bowler should not try to do different things than when a 130 bowler does, but what 145K bowler had is advantage of extra pace which he can use wisely by bowling bouncers. Otherwise, bowling in right areas is important, a 145K bowler has a bit more lee way in that regard but not much. This is what our bowlers need to learn likes of Shami, Umesh, and Aaron. They think if they are quick they can do anything, but they forget they only need to do what a BK does, try to hit right areas rather than bowling 6 different balls, especially in test cricket. This is where a bowling coach comes into play. I think Umesh did pretty well under Akram in IPL this season. He bowled lesser useless short balls that he used to bowl before and concentrated on swinging the ball at decent pace.

I hope he does well in odi series in Bangladesh, five test series is long series which our bowlers have no idea how to deal with them. All I am saying about him after his comeback from injury he has found it tough going, it does not mean he cannot improve. Of the six fast bowlers selected it was between him and Varun Aaron, I would have gone with Yadav he has the outswing which will get wickets in tests. Wrong selection. My first test bowlers ideallly would be Shami, Yadav and BK. but it will be Ishant, Shami and Bhuvi. I would drop Nohit and add Pandey then play Ashwin if pitch is green track.