Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This T20 World Cup has seen more swing than any T20 World Cup since 2010.

 

In the last 2 years at the Oval, there were 2 ODIs , SL in 2021 and India in 2022. There was more swing in the first 10 overs of these 2 ODIs than any ODI since 2013 at the Oval.

 

Even one of the T20's in England, Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep destroyed England with record levels of swing. 

 

This is not a one off. 

 

Check Jarrod Kimber's videos on YouTube about the decline in PP batting in the last 2 years and he talks about the new kookaburra having an extra layer of lacquer 

do share that video , love jarrod kimber's work

[Suhaan]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

get backspin on the ball not overspin

Yes,i meant that just chose wrong term,but what you are talking about wrist snap desnt add substantial to swing,it is almost same for regular bowlers all the factors come into picture their as well 

Only peculiar thing it does is extract extra kick from the surface

 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1160615/how-kookaburra-balls-came-to-rule-the-world

 

 

 

 

He says they have reenforced the seam ,than add extra lacquer on the white ball.But kookaburra hasn't officially confirmed anything.Then there is the snehal Pradhan article in 2018 where she hints about it.

 

 

 

This change happened in the 2020/21 season. I believe JK also has a graph showing decline in PP batting numbers as well.  They changed the red kookaburra as well. I believe the BG Trophy we played was the first series with the new kookaburra red ball. 

 

 

There was an article which pretty much confirmed that the red ball had been modified . 

 

Nothing about the white ball though it is pretty clear it's significantly different from what it used to be. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Nikhil_cric

[the don]

Most balls bowled at 140+ in 2022

1-Pakistan 43%
2-Srilanka 18%
3-England 17%
4-Australia 14%
5-Newzealand 11%

 

 

india have a serviceable medium pace attack but gets the job done for them albeit not very exciting.
 

[Suhaan]

34 minutes ago, the don said:

Most balls bowled at 140+ in 2022

1-Pakistan 43%
2-Srilanka 18%
3-England 17%
4-Australia 14%
5-Newzealand 11%

 

 

india have a serviceable medium pace attack but gets the job done for them albeit not very exciting.
 

No SA?

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, the don said:

Most balls bowled at 140+ in 2022

1-Pakistan 43%
2-Srilanka 18%
3-England 17%
4-Australia 14%
5-Newzealand 11%

 

 

india have a serviceable medium pace attack but gets the job done for them albeit not very exciting.
 

 

 

Do you feel like boasting about your pace after losing to Zimbabwe and getting bounced out by our supposed medium pacers  in 2 recent matches  !!!!

 

The purpose of 140 k+ bowling is to win big series and tournaments. When Indians started bowling 140 k+ In tests we Won 2 Test Series in Australia and Drew a Test Series in England. And we felt happy.  

 

As a Fast bowling fan, I feel like hiding the above data.

Edited October 28, 2022 by express bowling

[the don]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

No SA?

They are at number 6.

Rabada rarely bowls quick nowadays and parmell and ngidi arent quick. Nortje has pace.

[the don]

55 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Do you feel like boasting about your pace after losing to Zimbabwe and getting bounced out by our supposed medium pacers  in 2 recent matches  !!!!

 

The purpose of 140 k+ bowling is to win big series and tournaments. When Indians started bowling 140 k+ In tests we Won 2 Test Series in Australia and Drew a Test Series in England. And we felt happy.  

 

As a Fast bowling fan, I feel like hiding the above data.

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats. Against india shaheen was trundling and got hit, rauf conceded six of slower deliveries.

Shaheen got hit vs zimb but wasnt bowling 140 plus. 
These bowlers have won us games with their pace. Shaheen bowling over 140 is a beast, wasim was bowling 145 yesterday and got 4 wickets. Learn to dissect the stats. That sort of pace is an asset and keeps us competitive, no team has that arsenel.

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

[rkt.india]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Pace does matter.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Pace does matter.

 

agar sahi length pe daaloge tabhi varna ussi speed ghar wapis jaoge

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

agar sahi length pe daaloge tabhi varna ussi speed ghar wapis jaoge

Why people think we talk about pace with poor length. When we talk about pace, it automatically means expect to be bowling in good areas like people automatically assume trundlers mean accuracy. 

[express bowling]

55 minutes ago, the don said:

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats. Against india shaheen was trundling and got hit, rauf conceded six of slower deliveries.

Shaheen got hit vs zimb but wasnt bowling 140 plus. 
These bowlers have won us games with their pace. Shaheen bowling over 140 is a beast, wasim was bowling 145 yesterday and got 4 wickets. Learn to dissect the stats.

 

 

A quick and good quality pace attack should be able to .....

 

1)   Do better than the trundler attacks regularly.

 

2)   Bowl hostile spells and bounce out good batsmen regularly. 

 

3)  Make up for the failures of batsmen often enough.

 

4)  Blow away minnow batting lineups for really low scores on helpful tracks.

 

Tell me frankly .... are any of the above happening  ??

 

 

55 minutes ago, the don said:

That sort of pace is an asset and keeps us competitive, no team has that arsenel.

 

This sort of pace should definitely be an asset. I too believe so.

 

But not seeing the results. 
 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Why people think we talk about pace with poor length. When we talk about pace, it automatically means expect to be bowling in good areas like people automatically assume trundlers mean accuracy. 

becoz u take names of guys eco are on higher sides and they have lacked performances too  .

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, the don said:

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats.

I guess Zim was 95/7 at one time in 15 overs...still those bowlers allowed Ryan Burl and Brad Evans to add 35 more runs for 8th wkt.
Yeah 130 wasn't a big target...but you can't excuse your bowlers for their incompetence in closing the deal just because they are bowling 140+
 

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

becoz u take names of guys eco are on higher sides and they have lacked performances too  .

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

I don't disregard Chahar, Bhubi. They are decent bowlers, just won't win you big tournaments. Chahar has fitness issues too. You need an attack with combination of pace and swing bowlers.

[singhvivek141]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

becoz u take names of guys eco are on higher sides and they have lacked performances too  .

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

Chahar isn't disregarded, infact his batting ability at no 8 makes him the best candidate, he's injured unfortunately and that's why Thakur is next closest replacement.
Bhuvi's  disregard is due to his overhype....he is credited much more than what he is, a condition dependent powerplay bowler. On top of that he can't bat/slog and a poor fielder.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, the don said:

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats. Against india shaheen was trundling and got hit, rauf conceded six of slower deliveries.

Shaheen got hit vs zimb but wasnt bowling 140 plus. 
These bowlers have won us games with their pace. Shaheen bowling over 140 is a beast, wasim was bowling 145 yesterday and got 4 wickets. Learn to dissect the stats. That sort of pace is an asset and keeps us competitive, no team has that arsenel.

 

• Reason for Pakistan defeat is mostly batting - pak batsman cant play pace n bounce in Aus and its not this generation they havent enjoyed Aussie conditions ever 
• About bowling they did get their lengths wrong in 1st 2 overs vs Zimb - but thats baal ki khaal nikalana . Although this cud have hurted more if they wud have faced better sides like England or Aus in those conditions coz they wont crumble like Zimb 
• Not having a seam bowling all rounder ,subcontinent men Shadab-nawaz are so effective that 6th bowler doesnt get tested much and if it does guys like Itfikhar and khushdil take care of it but tht wont happen in Aus 
• Shaheen is clearly not match fit 

And if u start digging deep in stats ill mention same thing again our bowlers may lack pace but somehow they have ended up performing better then Pak bowler all 3 last games (including last 2 game of asia cup) . Even SL seamers did better then Pakistan in Asia cup. Somehow pakistan has to find where do they end up leaking more runs then opp fast bowlers despite having all pace and skill and on most occasion even falling short on wkts . 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I don't disregard Chahar, Bhubi. They are decent bowlers, just won't win you big tournaments. Chahar has fitness issues too. You need an attack with combination of pace and swing bowlers.

decent ?? Bhuvi numbers are literally outstanding in most areas of t20 . Main uske stats pe bas uska naam badal ke Kuldeep sen rakh du na legend declare ho jayega wo 

 

This is something that people wont accept no matter what, Rabada numbers are so middling in this format again no one will accept , Hazelwood-starc numbers against top sides take a serious hit yet bhuvi will be called minnow basher. Of course its pace bias 

 

So does chahar get disregarded for his lack of fitness ?? No , its coz he lacks pace . 

 

1st thing u need bowlers who understand this format , then u need to create a variety in bowling attack among all . This pace/swing/seam/bounce/slower one all are weapons but at the end execution matters. We keep talking about these young bowlers skill set , i agree they have but jaake ye bhi dekho na ki execution kaisi hai . 

Im all of having variety in attack and having bowlers for condition but if you dont know how to bowl in this format conditions wont turn bad bowling into good .

 

 

Pakistan bowlers with all skillset yet when they lacked in execution in 2 overs vs Zimb , Zimb was off to fiery start. Infact in most of their recent games its opp bowlers with less pace who have done better then their seamers and im talking about India-SL 

Starc has everything but has been a struggle in t20 coz he doesnt play this format much be it domestic , league or much international . Hence the format has evolved so much but he hasnt and has been a struggle for long. 

Cummins have all the skillset but again hasnt cracked the format 

 

U need bowlers 1st who understand how to bowl in this format. This format has evolved a lot now so its just not limited to pace anymore . 

I wud have loved if we had someone with pace who can bowl hard length but unfortunately we dont and the ones who can do that role are either below avg in the format or very very very raw.  If and when ready ill have kuldeep sen name 1st but till then its just not realistic ,neither do i endorse having bowlers who are below avg in the format. Rather get beaten with your best then someone struggling 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Everyone likes a high quality finished product. 

 

But, in most cases, high quality quicks are not created overnight.

 

One has to accept the pain of some indifferent performances before a high quality finished product is created. 

 

In India, we usually want low ceiling and high floor players .... who basically will rarely be very poor but will not have a stellar career either.

 

Basically safe bowlers. 

 

Bumrah is one of those rare pacers who had the accuracy of a line and length medium pacer and the pace and bounce of a fiery fast bowler, right from the start of his career. 

 

So, he progressed through the ranks. Won't happen in case of most other fast bowlers. 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

 

Yes, Bhuvi gets the job done ... but I strongly believe that a Quick pacer with T20 skills will do the job much better and be a much more proficient wicket taker. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by express bowling