Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

[rkt.india]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Pace does matter.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Pace does matter.

 

agar sahi length pe daaloge tabhi varna ussi speed ghar wapis jaoge

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

agar sahi length pe daaloge tabhi varna ussi speed ghar wapis jaoge

Why people think we talk about pace with poor length. When we talk about pace, it automatically means expect to be bowling in good areas like people automatically assume trundlers mean accuracy. 

[express bowling]

55 minutes ago, the don said:

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats. Against india shaheen was trundling and got hit, rauf conceded six of slower deliveries.

Shaheen got hit vs zimb but wasnt bowling 140 plus. 
These bowlers have won us games with their pace. Shaheen bowling over 140 is a beast, wasim was bowling 145 yesterday and got 4 wickets. Learn to dissect the stats.

 

 

A quick and good quality pace attack should be able to .....

 

1)   Do better than the trundler attacks regularly.

 

2)   Bowl hostile spells and bounce out good batsmen regularly. 

 

3)  Make up for the failures of batsmen often enough.

 

4)  Blow away minnow batting lineups for really low scores on helpful tracks.

 

Tell me frankly .... are any of the above happening  ??

 

 

55 minutes ago, the don said:

That sort of pace is an asset and keeps us competitive, no team has that arsenel.

 

This sort of pace should definitely be an asset. I too believe so.

 

But not seeing the results. 
 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Why people think we talk about pace with poor length. When we talk about pace, it automatically means expect to be bowling in good areas like people automatically assume trundlers mean accuracy. 

becoz u take names of guys eco are on higher sides and they have lacked performances too  .

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, the don said:

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats.

I guess Zim was 95/7 at one time in 15 overs...still those bowlers allowed Ryan Burl and Brad Evans to add 35 more runs for 8th wkt.
Yeah 130 wasn't a big target...but you can't excuse your bowlers for their incompetence in closing the deal just because they are bowling 140+
 

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

becoz u take names of guys eco are on higher sides and they have lacked performances too  .

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

I don't disregard Chahar, Bhubi. They are decent bowlers, just won't win you big tournaments. Chahar has fitness issues too. You need an attack with combination of pace and swing bowlers.

[singhvivek141]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

becoz u take names of guys eco are on higher sides and they have lacked performances too  .

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

Chahar isn't disregarded, infact his batting ability at no 8 makes him the best candidate, he's injured unfortunately and that's why Thakur is next closest replacement.
Bhuvi's  disregard is due to his overhype....he is credited much more than what he is, a condition dependent powerplay bowler. On top of that he can't bat/slog and a poor fielder.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, the don said:

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats. Against india shaheen was trundling and got hit, rauf conceded six of slower deliveries.

Shaheen got hit vs zimb but wasnt bowling 140 plus. 
These bowlers have won us games with their pace. Shaheen bowling over 140 is a beast, wasim was bowling 145 yesterday and got 4 wickets. Learn to dissect the stats. That sort of pace is an asset and keeps us competitive, no team has that arsenel.

 

• Reason for Pakistan defeat is mostly batting - pak batsman cant play pace n bounce in Aus and its not this generation they havent enjoyed Aussie conditions ever 
• About bowling they did get their lengths wrong in 1st 2 overs vs Zimb - but thats baal ki khaal nikalana . Although this cud have hurted more if they wud have faced better sides like England or Aus in those conditions coz they wont crumble like Zimb 
• Not having a seam bowling all rounder ,subcontinent men Shadab-nawaz are so effective that 6th bowler doesnt get tested much and if it does guys like Itfikhar and khushdil take care of it but tht wont happen in Aus 
• Shaheen is clearly not match fit 

And if u start digging deep in stats ill mention same thing again our bowlers may lack pace but somehow they have ended up performing better then Pak bowler all 3 last games (including last 2 game of asia cup) . Even SL seamers did better then Pakistan in Asia cup. Somehow pakistan has to find where do they end up leaking more runs then opp fast bowlers despite having all pace and skill and on most occasion even falling short on wkts . 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I don't disregard Chahar, Bhubi. They are decent bowlers, just won't win you big tournaments. Chahar has fitness issues too. You need an attack with combination of pace and swing bowlers.

decent ?? Bhuvi numbers are literally outstanding in most areas of t20 . Main uske stats pe bas uska naam badal ke Kuldeep sen rakh du na legend declare ho jayega wo 

 

This is something that people wont accept no matter what, Rabada numbers are so middling in this format again no one will accept , Hazelwood-starc numbers against top sides take a serious hit yet bhuvi will be called minnow basher. Of course its pace bias 

 

So does chahar get disregarded for his lack of fitness ?? No , its coz he lacks pace . 

 

1st thing u need bowlers who understand this format , then u need to create a variety in bowling attack among all . This pace/swing/seam/bounce/slower one all are weapons but at the end execution matters. We keep talking about these young bowlers skill set , i agree they have but jaake ye bhi dekho na ki execution kaisi hai . 

Im all of having variety in attack and having bowlers for condition but if you dont know how to bowl in this format conditions wont turn bad bowling into good .

 

 

Pakistan bowlers with all skillset yet when they lacked in execution in 2 overs vs Zimb , Zimb was off to fiery start. Infact in most of their recent games its opp bowlers with less pace who have done better then their seamers and im talking about India-SL 

Starc has everything but has been a struggle in t20 coz he doesnt play this format much be it domestic , league or much international . Hence the format has evolved so much but he hasnt and has been a struggle for long. 

Cummins have all the skillset but again hasnt cracked the format 

 

U need bowlers 1st who understand how to bowl in this format. This format has evolved a lot now so its just not limited to pace anymore . 

I wud have loved if we had someone with pace who can bowl hard length but unfortunately we dont and the ones who can do that role are either below avg in the format or very very very raw.  If and when ready ill have kuldeep sen name 1st but till then its just not realistic ,neither do i endorse having bowlers who are below avg in the format. Rather get beaten with your best then someone struggling 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Everyone likes a high quality finished product. 

 

But, in most cases, high quality quicks are not created overnight.

 

One has to accept the pain of some indifferent performances before a high quality finished product is created. 

 

In India, we usually want low ceiling and high floor players .... who basically will rarely be very poor but will not have a stellar career either.

 

Basically safe bowlers. 

 

Bumrah is one of those rare pacers who had the accuracy of a line and length medium pacer and the pace and bounce of a fiery fast bowler, right from the start of his career. 

 

So, he progressed through the ranks. Won't happen in case of most other fast bowlers. 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

 

Yes, Bhuvi gets the job done ... but I strongly believe that a Quick pacer with T20 skills will do the job much better and be a much more proficient wicket taker. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by express bowling

[the don]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

• Reason for Pakistan defeat is mostly batting - pak batsman cant play pace n bounce in Aus and its not this generation they havent enjoyed Aussie conditions ever 
• About bowling they did get their lengths wrong in 1st 2 overs vs Zimb - but thats baal ki khaal nikalana . Although this cud have hurted more if they wud have faced better sides like England or Aus in those conditions coz they wont crumble like Zimb 
• Not having a seam bowling all rounder ,subcontinent men Shadab-nawaz are so effective that 6th bowler doesnt get tested much and if it does guys like Itfikhar and khushdil take care of it but tht wont happen in Aus 
• Shaheen is clearly not match fit 

And if u start digging deep in stats ill mention same thing again our bowlers may lack pace but somehow they have ended up performing better then Pak bowler all 3 last games (including last 2 game of asia cup) . Even SL seamers did better then Pakistan in Asia cup. Somehow pakistan has to find where do they end up leaking more runs then opp fast bowlers despite having all pace and skill and on most occasion even falling short on wkts . 

Pakistani batsmen were always gonna struggle at mcg and perth, but they have choked both the games despite playing an unfit premier bowler i still dont think the team is as bad as it looks on the points table and wont be surprised if they win the next three.

[the don]

Haris Rauf is the best fast bowler in t20s, nobody is ready to have that conversation.

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

decent ?? Bhuvi numbers are literally outstanding in most areas of t20 . Main uske stats pe bas uska naam badal ke Kuldeep sen rakh du na legend declare ho jayega wo 

 

This is something that people wont accept no matter what, Rabada numbers are so middling in this format again no one will accept , Hazelwood-starc numbers against top sides take a serious hit yet bhuvi will be called minnow basher. Of course its pace bias 

 

So does chahar get disregarded for his lack of fitness ?? No , its coz he lacks pace . 

 

1st thing u need bowlers who understand this format , then u need to create a variety in bowling attack among all . This pace/swing/seam/bounce/slower one all are weapons but at the end execution matters. We keep talking about these young bowlers skill set , i agree they have but jaake ye bhi dekho na ki execution kaisi hai . 

Im all of having variety in attack and having bowlers for condition but if you dont know how to bowl in this format conditions wont turn bad bowling into good .

 

 

Pakistan bowlers with all skillset yet when they lacked in execution in 2 overs vs Zimb , Zimb was off to fiery start. Infact in most of their recent games its opp bowlers with less pace who have done better then their seamers and im talking about India-SL 

Starc has everything but has been a struggle in t20 coz he doesnt play this format much be it domestic , league or much international . Hence the format has evolved so much but he hasnt and has been a struggle for long. 

Cummins have all the skillset but again hasnt cracked the format 

 

U need bowlers 1st who understand how to bowl in this format. This format has evolved a lot now so its just not limited to pace anymore . 

I wud have loved if we had someone with pace who can bowl hard length but unfortunately we dont and the ones who can do that role are either below avg in the format or very very very raw.  If and when ready ill have kuldeep sen name 1st but till then its just not realistic ,neither do i endorse having bowlers who are below avg in the format. Rather get beaten with your best then someone struggling 

 

I always considered bhubi one of the best t20 bowlers because of his good ER. He is probably the best defensive bowler going around in T20s. But in T20 cricket, spinners need to be defensive, pacers need to be aggressive at least in first 15 overs.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Everyone likes a high quality finished product. 

 

But, in most cases, high quality quicks are not created overnight.

 

They areprep in domestic not in Wcs

Mark wood has been on scene for years and its now he has been getting continous run in t20 coz before he was struggling. Go check how many games he use to get ???

 

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

One has to accept the pain of some indifferent performances before a high quality finished product is created. 

 

That u have to understand that it takes time so dont hurry, let them get ready and then think of a place like Wc

 

See at the end teams will think of teams good. If RR didnt back kuldeep at a lower level dont expect Indian team wud just 6 mnths prior to wc

 

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

In India, we usually want low ceiling and high floor players .... who basically will rarely be very poor but will not have a stellar career either.

 

Basically safe bowlers. 

 

Bumrah is one of those rare pacers who had the accuracy of a line and length medium pacer and the pace and bounce of a fiery fast bowler, right from the start of his career. 

 

Nobody has a problem with bumrah , get someone with that control ..............i wont even care if he doesnt pick wkts also then. 

 

 

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

So, he progressed through the ranks. Won't happen in case of most other fast bowlers. 

 

 

Yes, Bhuvi gets the job done ... but I strongly believe that a Quick pacer with T20 skills will do the job much better and be a much more proficient wicket taker. 

 

 

 

We have quick bowlers with t20 skills but they lack execution as of now which makes those skills irrelevant . 

All this getting ready will make sense for a WC like next one in 2024 coz u have 2 yrs......................between this IPL to Wc we had just 6 months and u cant make such Raw bowlers ready in 6 months

 

So u need to understand it takes time so dont push 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Starc is a lefty ,margin of error is less,and Cummins has lost pace .

cummins have always been struggling in t20, nothing new ...........happens every year in IPL too . Guys like Shami , cummins , jadeja are not varying their lengths in this format which is why they have struggled and more so towards the death. Cant be predictable in this format 

 

In t20 its lefties actually who have done better. Starc execution of yorkers have gone down big time which ends up slot balls , he is currently struggling even in PP which is why Aus have stopped bowling him in PP too. Lack of playing this format hasnt made him learn defensive bowling to which has become very important in Wcs now 

 

 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

They areprep in domestic not in Wcs

Mark wood has been on scene for years and its now he has been getting continous run in t20 coz before he was struggling. Go check how many games he use to get ???

 

 

That u have to understand that it takes time so dont hurry, let them get ready and then think of a place like Wc

 

See at the end teams will think of teams good. If RR didnt back kuldeep at a lower level dont expect Indian team wud just 6 mnths prior to wc

 

 

Nobody has a problem with bumrah , get someone with that control ..............i wont even care if he doesnt pick wkts also then. 

 

 

 

We have quick bowlers with t20 skills but they lack execution as of now which makes those skills irrelevant . 

All this getting ready will make sense for a WC like next one in 2024 coz u have 2 yrs......................between this IPL to Wc we had just 6 months and u cant make such Raw bowlers ready in 6 months

 

So u need to understand it takes time so dont push 

 

 

When have I wanted a rookie unprepared quick for the World Cup  !!!!

 

 

1)   I talk about trying them out in low key bilateral LOIs. See where they stand.  Mhambrey could have fine tuned their skills by working with them for 4 months.  Pick them only if they look ready after 4 months of hard work before the WC. 

 

 

2)  For the World Cup, I wanted Siraj and Shami in the mix.  

 

In the end they had to take both, which I anyway anticipated, but messed up their preparation by keeping them out of the mix. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I always considered bhubi one of the best t20 bowlers because of his good ER. He is probably the best defensive bowler going around in T20s. But in T20 cricket, spinners need to be defensive, pacers need to be aggressive at least in first 15 overs.

In PP he has the 2nd best S/r in world , first is hazelwood whose sample size is small and his numbers change massively against better sides. 

 

I dont think he is defensive bowlers but just not someone who takes wkts in bulk which chahar does. 

 

But with such high totals defensive bowling is as good as any specially when u have guys like Bumrah-ashwin-axar-arshdeep at other end coz even they dont leak easy. Runs has to come from somewhere which is where teams give wkts in bulk. Unfortunately this attack didnt play together and loosing bumrah created a massive hole 

 

As far as spinner vs pacer for defensive role- whoever can do it .

Bhuvi went at 5.5 last game as compare 8 RR of game, 10 runs was the diff right their. Cud have done better but still difference was made 

 

Even PP can be broken in 2 parts 1-4th overs where u need to take wkts and 5-6th where bowlers need to close PP without giving much runs . 

 

Even if he isnt a guy who runs through sides well as of now their aint any other too. U only pick whatever best u have 

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, the don said:

Haris Rauf is the best fast bowler in t20s, nobody is ready to have that conversation.

 

 

I am ready.

 

Rauf is very good, very impressive and very quick as a T20 bowler. 

 

Credit where it is due. 

 

I don't rate your other pacers highly except Shaheen with the new ball in white ball cricket.