Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[tapandrun]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Gillespie, Ntini and Best were not rapid. They were mostly in the 135 to 145 k pace bracket and sometimes even slower. 

 

Bichel was mostly 135 to 140. 

Flintoff bowled 140 to 148 for a very short period.

Which Watson is this who bowled 145 to 150 ?

 

 

Bichel (~145) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fltBJKPLx4&ab_channel=MayankSharma-TheCricketLover

 

Ntini (~150) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFtxuNWrIeY&ab_channel=CricketZaheer

 

Best (~150)-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw2vxXVkp8E&ab_channel=robelinda2

 

Watson ( Shane Watson ) - Before injuries and taking batting more seriously he was capable and was bowling ~145 same with Kallis capable of cranking upto 145 at time when needed

Edited January 11, 2023 by tapandrun

[Rightarmfast]

6 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Bichel (~145) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fltBJKPLx4&ab_channel=MayankSharma-TheCricketLover

 

Ntini (~150) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFtxuNWrIeY&ab_channel=CricketZaheer

 

Best (~150)-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw2vxXVkp8E&ab_channel=robelinda2

 

Watson ( Shane Watson ) - Before injuries and taking batting more seriously he was capable and was bowling ~145 same with Kallis capable of cranking upto 145 at time when needed

Bichel was very deceptive. Never looked like he could bowl quick, looked military medium but every now and then could slip a ball around 145ish. Shane Watson was sharp.. Didnt get enough chance. But Ntini wasnt in their bracket.

[MK55]

Ntini operated consistently in the 137-143 bracket. Rarely above that.

in fact If I were to bet, I’d say he must have bowled over 145, in less than 5 (more like 2-5) percent of his matches. 
 

Morkel was a different beast altogether. Was consistently 90 mph and above. Very rarely in the 150s but consistently in the 145-149 bracket.

 

Lol Watson was 130-140 for 99 percent of his games. In fact I’m willing to get, he might have hit 145 or above in single digit matches in his entire international career. 
 

haven’t watched Bichel in his early years. Saw him after 2003 where he was mostly fast medium. Slower than the current Cummins.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by MK55

[Rightarmfast]

6 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Remember Silverwood, the sl coach, he too was sharp when fit.

Silverwood was very quick. Quicker than Gough.. Was a 145+ bowler.

[Rightarmfast]

11 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Remember Silverwood, the sl coach, he too was sharp when fit.

There was Natie Haywards from South Africa. He was almost in the same bracket as Akhtar and Lee. But South Africa spoilt his career, never gave him chance.

[tapandrun]

2 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

There was Natie Haywards from South Africa. He was almost in the same bracket as Akhtar and Lee. But South Africa spoilt his career, never gave him chance.

He was v.quick and with awkward action.

[Suhaan]

7 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Yes,Hayward as well,they used to call him wayward Hayward but was quick.

There was a bowler who burst onto the scene in early 2001called Mnefku Ngam,was very much hyped in SA circuits for his 150 k pace,but injuries never let him begin in the first place

[Suhaan]

18 minutes ago, MK55 said:

Ntini operated consistently in the 137-143 bracket. Rarely above that.

in fact If I were to bet, I’d say he must have bowled over 145, in less than 5 (more like 2-5) percent of his matches. 
 

Morkel was a different beast altogether. Was consistently 90 mph and above. Very rarely in the 150s but consistently in the 145-149 bracket.

 

Lol Watson was 130-140 for 99 percent of his games. In fact I’m willing to get, he might have hit 145 or above in single digit matches in his entire international career. 
 

haven’t watched Bichel in his early years. Saw him after 2003 where he was mostly fast medium. Slower than the current Cummins.

 

Ntini was insanely quick in India's tour to SA in September/Oct 2001

 

Even Kallis was hitting 145ks in between

[Suhaan]

5 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Watson was very injury prone,bit like hardik .

Watson was very sharp when he started,had the ability to bowl in excess of 145,seen him many times very early on,back injuries forced him bowl within himself

[tapandrun]

Yes the point was there were many who were capable and bowling v.raid pace.

 

Which sometime makes me think were those speeds accurate?   

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes till the day these 3 retire they were express and even after retiring from the Intl cricket they were able to crank it upto 150s.

That particular era had some serious speed demons, though you can doubt the speed guns a bit which you can do for current ones as well, but at that time there were atleast 2 v.rapid bowlers in each team baring Ind.

 

WI - Best, Edwards, Tylor

Aus- Tait, Lee, Gillespie

Pak- Akthar, Sami

SA- Morkel, Styen, Ntini

NZ- Bond

 

And lost of those who can bowl 145-150 - Malinga, Flintof, Watson, Bichel

 

 

Tino best and jerome taylor were fast but never saw them more than 151 152. Fidele edwards waa capable of 155. 

 

Tait and Lee ofcourse. Gillespie was 145 there abouts. 

 

Akthar and sami yes capable of 155

 

Morkel around 150, steyn capable of 155, nitini around 145.

 

Bond was capable of 155.

 

So basically bond akthar sami lee tait edwards ( steyn later). Still far more than current rauf woods umran ferguson ( starc has dimnished now ) who else at 155.. with no one really to match akthar lee tait in 160 club.

 

[Vilander]

12 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Which sometime makes me think were those speeds accurate? 

 

Speed measurement and fitness of atheletes have improved.  

 

2003 wc was definitely an outliyer, zak dilhara fernando and nehra did 148 and 149.5 , while their regular speeds were topping at around 142 before. Similarly akthar went from around 154 effort ball to 161.  So inwould imagine a faster speed gun that took favorable readings at around 5ks quicker.

[Vilander]

Oh i forgot nortje. So 7 to 5 155 pacers in earleir era and current era. Current era is not that bad actually. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

 

Bichel (~145) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fltBJKPLx4&ab_channel=MayankSharma-TheCricketLover

 

Ntini (~150) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFtxuNWrIeY&ab_channel=CricketZaheer

 

Best (~150)-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw2vxXVkp8E&ab_channel=robelinda2

 

Watson ( Shane Watson ) - Before injuries and taking batting more seriously he was capable and was bowling ~145 same with Kallis capable of cranking upto 145 at time when needed

 

 

Most pacers bowl some spells which are quicker than usual. 

 

Shami was bowling 147 k / 148 k in the IPL.final.  I have seen Peter Siddle clock 150 +. 

 

We have to consider usually speeds. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by express bowling

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, MultiB48 said:

Gillespie I have seen 150.he was like starc but starc is fitter.

Yeah he used to hit 150 in certain spells but operated at 142 to 145 there abouts mostly. Totally unclear why and how mgrath was a better bowler when gillespie was bowling from other end. May be due

to the fact.

[tapandrun]

23 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

Tino best and jerome taylor were fast but never saw them more than 151 152. Fidele edwards waa capable of 155. 

 

Tait and Lee ofcourse. Gillespie was 145 there abouts. 

 

Akthar and sami yes capable of 155

 

Morkel around 150, steyn capable of 155, nitini around 145.

 

Bond was capable of 155.

 

So basically bond akthar sami lee tait edwards ( steyn later). Still far more than current rauf woods umran ferguson ( starc has dimnished now ) who else at 155.. with no one really to match akthar lee tait in 160 club.

 

Have high hopes on Umran to clock 160, in his v.first season guy is clocking 155 while looking like bowling well with in himself and mostly express pacer achieve their top speeds by  the age of 25-26.  He looks full of energy even after over's completion v.uncommon to Akthar. But Ind TM and mind-set won't let him be that top-shelf unicorn bowler.

 

But do not think he will be as dangerous as Akthar, tait and Lee, as these were no where near to the Thomson's, Roberts and Holding era as batters are now more protected , seeing these type of speeds too often and proper spherical ball manufacturing and no underprepared pitches and no intentions to injure a batter  

Edited January 12, 2023 by tapandrun

[Vilander]

2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

McGrath used to have a cracking offcutter much like siraj, Gillespie didn't get that type of nip off the pitch.

 

For sure Mcgrath was a great. My point was more around how formidable gillespie would be when seen from other end guy would do almost everything mcgrath does at 135 but at 145. There was no respite. Mcgrath gillespie then lee warne with the occasional kasprowicz or bichel

[tapandrun]

7 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

McGrath used to have a cracking offcutter much like siraj, Gillespie didn't get that type of nip off the pitch.

He found the length from where a batter can neither drive nor cut, they were caught in 2 minds and just poked at the balls and he had decent bounce and movement to carry edges to the wk.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by tapandrun

[Need4Speed]

8 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

But do not think he will be as dangerous as Akthar, tait and Lee, as these were no where near the Thomson's, Roberts and Holding era as batters are now more protected seeing these type of speeds to often and proper spherical ball manufacturing and no underprepared pitches and no intentions to injure a batter  

If he can come and bowl in middle overs with express pace causing batsmen to mistime and pick up wkts..bowl accurate short balls and yorkers..as and when required..

also finishing up the tails..he will be a great value addition to team..

bonus if he reverses the ball esp in Tests..

[tapandrun]

2 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

If he can come and bowl in middle overs with express pace causing batsmen to mistime and pick up wkts..bowl accurate short balls and yorkers..as and when required..

also finishing up the tails..he will be a great value addition to team..

bonus if he reverses the ball esp in Tests..

I meant physically intimidating, also wont fancy him in Test.

 

Mentioned this on this or some other thread that his approach towards bowling is not energy efficient, his speeds are the results of the v.fast run-ups , loads and v.fast release.

For test bowler (with rapid pace) you will need a bowler with more economical run-up and able to generate pace with angular momentum and shoulders.

 

If tried in Test, fears are that he will/may lose significant pace to get an economical/smooth run-ups.