Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Lord]

1 minute ago, cowboysfan said:

He was commenting on Siraj  using the crease to bowl out swingers but creating different angles for the batsmen.

 

If true, got to commend Mhambrey too.

[Lord]

12 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

good observation from Wasim Bhai,hope siraj replicates this form in the WC and the aussie series.

not sure about playing fast bowlers in that series so close to the WC. Can't afford even minor injury.

[MediumPacer]

13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah's primary delivery is the big nip backer. 

No,he doesn't, primary ball is outswing

[MediumPacer]

Roshan abeysinghe is asking everyone about the importance of the toss but the pitch was made for spinners.

[Mosher]

40 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

No,he doesn't, primary ball is outswing

Bumrah stock ball has always been the big inswinger. He started bowling the outswinger later in his career.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Mosher

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

No,he doesn't, primary ball is outswing

 

 

No !

 

Bumrah wasn't a swing bowler to start with. 

 

He used to seam the ball both ways and his stock ball was the one which he tried to seam in with bounce. It hit the bat very hard and high. What they call the heavy ball. 

 

He learnt to swing the ball on our England tour of 2018 and he swung it well in the WI 2019.  But it was primarily inswing.

 

And all the while his basic bowling remained fast seam bowling with some bounce in most conditions. 

 

He started using outswing liberally only from our England tour of 2021. 

 

But his stock ball still remains the seaming in / angling in indipper with pace and some bounce. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Lord said:

 

I gave my reasons. He's too similar to Bumrah. Might cost vs better teams.

 

 

Siraj is very different from Bumrah in bowling style. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

not sure about playing fast bowlers in that series so close to the WC. Can't afford even minor injury.

 

 

Agree.

 

Bumrah needs to play one game as he has been out for long. Needs to hone his death bowling. He has bowled only with the new ball. 

 

Rest Hardik.

 

Maybe one game to Siraj where he practices death bowling. 

 

Prasidh can be given all 3 games. 

[MediumPacer]

1 hour ago, Mosher said:

Bumrah stock ball has always been the big inswinger. He started bowling the outswinger later in his career.

 

Agree

 

 

23 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

No !

 

Bumrah wasn't a swing bowler to start with. 

 

He used to seam the ball both ways and his stock ball was the one which he tried to seam in with bounce. It hit the bat very hard and high. What they call the heavy ball. 

 

He learnt to swing the ball on our England tour of 2018 and he swung it well in the WI 2019.  But it was primarily inswing.

 

And all the while his basic bowling remained fast seam bowling with some bounce in most conditions. 

 

He started using outswing liberally only from our England tour of 2021. 

 

But his stock ball still remains the seaming in / angling in indipper with pace and some bounce. 

check here ,clear swing away from the left hander,it's not seam

 

 

 

 

his release has always been either straight or tilted for swing ,never seam. Doesnt have a nipbacker. 

[Lord]

24 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj is very different from Bumrah in bowling style. 

 

They both swing it away to left handers mainly an occasionally away to RHB.Bowl similar lengths.

[Lord]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Agree.

 

Bumrah needs to play one game as he has been out for long. Needs to hone his death bowling. He has bowled only with the new ball. 

 

Rest Hardik.

 

Maybe one game to Siraj where he practices death bowling. 

 

Prasidh can be given all 3 games. 

 

Yes, Shami,Prasidh and Thakur can be given all 3 games to chose 2 among them

[prudent_kreeda]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Arshdeep has shown enough ability to swing the new ball both ways and was good in Aus.When In form he was accurate and swung the ball in which is crucial for left armer.

 

Everyone can have form issues,but you back the ability especially when it offers an extra dimension.

 

 At current form Arsh does not deserve to be in either T20 OR 50 overs . Not because he does not have the tools to be a good T20 bowler .In fact when  he debuted he was the best death bowler among young bowlers and also could  swing both ways in PP with a very good bouncer.

But right now his bowling is in shambles .

Let him sort out his issues first and come to back to the levels he was in T20 when debuted . 

ODI still far away - Need to increase pace and add good length /back of length as stock ball for middle overs and add cutters instead of slower lolly pops he is serving now . 

If he can be above 136+  with a good stock ball and re discovers death over bowling he will make it to  50 Overs too as i see he can easily bowl 5 overs at death, 3-4 overs in PP once he re establishes in T20.

[Need4Speed]

Arshdeep rose to prominence with his death bowling skills and then later with early inswing..He also bowls good targeted short balls..I hoped he will inprove further and can become more challanging bowler to face..spot was his to grab being a left hander..

at this point he seems to have degraded..needs to get back to his best again even to get place in T20 setup..his domestic performances doesnt justify place in ODIs..

As of now,he dont have legs to bowls 10 overs with great intensity and focus..

Edited September 17, 2023 by Need4Speed

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

 

Agree

 

 

check here ,clear swing away from the left hander,it's not seam

 

 

 

 

his release has always been either straight or tilted for swing ,never seam. Doesnt have a nipbacker. 

 

 

If you heard Siraj's interview today, it was a great day for swing bowling for the first 8 overs or so.  Infact the whole tournament was conducive to swing bowling upfront  probably due to cloud cover.

 

What Bumrah tried today was primarily swing bowling as a result. 

 

The current day Bumrah can do everything, seam and swing both ways. 

 

But he started off as a fast seam bowler.

 

And even now, when he tries to swing, it is either big inswing or small outswing and not the other way round. 

 

 

[randomGuy]

When I see a bowler in his run up and action I can tell that he is going to be not great...arshdeep is like that...a Nuwan zoysa an Allen mullaly type bowler... people here were defending him some years back in T20s against Pakistan....I was unimpressed with posters here , I stopped posting on cricket forum and anyways, watched only this Asia Cup after those arshdeep T20s ,no cricket inbetween....

[MediumPacer]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

If you heard Siraj's interview today, it was a great day for swing bowling for the first 8 overs or so.  Infact the whole tournament was conducive to swing bowling upfront  probably due to cloud cover.

 

What Bumrah tried today was primarily swing bowling as a result. 

 

The current day Bumrah can do everything, seam and swing both ways. 

 

But he started off as a fast seam bowler.

 

And even now, when he tries to swing, it is either big inswing or small outswing and not the other way round. 

 

 

Siraj also said pitch was damp so maybe he meant it seamed ,and siraj can bowl the nipbacker. These guys dont always use these terms precisely ,like bangar the other day.

 

 

Bumrah always bowls with the  same release.

 

 

and seam bowlers arent always quicker than swing,Shami is more of a seam bowler and both have been of similar pace .

[express bowling]

50 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Siraj also said pitch was damp so maybe he meant it seamed ,and siraj can bowl the nipbacker. These guys dont always use these terms precisely ,like bangar the other day.

Bumrah always bowls with the  same release.

 

I am not talking about bowling cutters here. But pounding the deck with the seam for bounce and deviation off the deck ... as opposed to releasing the ball for swing like it was happening yesterday. 

 

Nowadays, many pacers, with great ability to maintain good seam position, often bowl with angled seam even when they try to get seam movement off the deck. 

 

 

50 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

and seam bowlers arent always quicker than swing,Shami is more of a seam bowler and both have been of similar pace .

 

Bumrah is quicker than Shami

[MediumPacer]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I am not talking about bowling cutters here. But pounding the deck with the seam for bounce and deviation off the deck ... as opposed to releasing the ball for swing like it was happening yesterday. 

 

I never assumed that,you said he was a seamer.

 

 

15 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Nowadays, many pacers, with great ability to maintain good seam position, often bowl with angled seam even when they try to get seam movement off the deck. 

 

dont know what you mean by good seam position ? are you implying seam?

 

and angled seam as in how bumrah bowled to perera? 

 

 

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bumrah is quicker than Shami

You were implying swing bowlers are slower.Steyn was a swing bowler  but was quicker than philander who was a seamer.

[express bowling]

55 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

I never assumed that,you said he was a seamer.

 

 

Seamers don't bowl cutters necessarily.  It may or may not be an additional tool.

 

Seamers grip the ball tighter and seam up and pound the good length area while trying to hit the seam for seam movement and some bounce.

 

While swing bowlers grip the ball looser and release the ball and try to land it in the full length area for swing in the air. 

 

In international cricket, most top pacers try to do both at different phases of the game. But they are termed seam bowlers or swing bowlers based on which suit is stronger for them or which suit they prefer to use with more confidence and efficiency.

 

 

55 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

dont know what you mean by good seam position ? are you implying seam?

 

Pacers whose seam.position throughout the trajectory of the delivery, from release from the hand to the ball pitching, remain more or less similar similar to the seam position at the time of release.

 

55 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

You were implying swing bowlers are slower.Steyn was a swing bowler  but was quicker than philander who was a seamer.

 

I did not imply that swing bowlers are slower than every seam bowler.

 

But it  usually seen that, when trying to swing the new ball conventionally, pacers end up bowling slower than when they themselves are trying to seam the ball and hit thd deck hard. ( They bowl quicker when they go for reverse swing )

 

Same happened with Steyn. He bowled 135 to 142 k when he tried to swing conventionally and cranked it up to 140 to 147 k or beyond when the ball stopped swinging and he hit the deck hard. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by express bowling

[MediumPacer]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Seamers don't bowl cutters necessarily.  It may or may not be an additional tool.

 

Seamers grip the ball tighter and seam up and pound the good length area while trying to hit the seam for seam movement and some bounce.

 

While swing bowlers grip the ball looser and release the ball and try to land it in the full length area for swing in the air. 

 

In international cricket, most top pacers try to do both at different phases of the game. But they are termed seam bowlers or swing bowlers based on which suit is stronger for them or which suit they prefer to use with more confidence and efficiency.

 

 

 

Pacers whose seam.position throughout the trajectory of the delivery, from release from the hand to the ball pitching, remain more or less similar similar to the seam position at the time of release.

 

 

I did not imply that swing bowlers are slower than every seam bowler.

 

But it  usually seen that, when trying to swing the new ball conventionally, pacers end up bowling slower than when they themselves are trying to seam the ball and hit thd deck hard. ( They bowl quicker when they go for reverse swing )

 

Same happened with Steyn. He bowled 135 to 142 k when he tried to swing conventionally and cranked it up to 140 to 147 k or beyond when the ball stopped swinging and he hit the deck hard. 

Swing bowlers are among the quickest in the world,likes of lee,akhtar,steyn,donald,bond were all swing bowlers.

 

Workload and age reduces pace,it will ultimately happen to everyone.Steyn initially used to bowl quick throughout ,later he compromised on speed,he could have bowled quickly in his initial spell and then slow down progressively but he chose to begin slowly and later increase it,sa conditions also helped.