Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Lone Wolf]

@Suhaan @express bowling Ashok Malhotra under fire for some below the belt comments against Assam. 

 

 

The issue

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

Looks like Parag responded to him 

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

Mukesh can bowl 130-140,he is hardly innocuous.He isn't quick but ain't that slow either.

Harshal can also bowl 140+ when he really put his best foot forward. He has bowled upto 142-143 as well, will you consider him as "Fast bowler" ?

 

Mukesh's speed is 128-134 (just like Bhuvi)...he can hit 138-139 when he really tries to but he can't do it consistently.

 

India needs bowlers who can bowl 135+ on consistent basis, bowlers who can bowl 140+ consistently and are tall have distinct advantages. Mukesh falls in neither of the categories. Only has a utility when the ball is hard & new...post that just a baggage on the remaining bowlers.

 

Add to that he is atrociously poor fielder and even poorer with bat. Why would anyone want to waste time by selecting such limited skillset bowlers ? Deepak Chahar provides much more advantages than Mukesh can ever do so in his entire career.

Edited November 1, 2023 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

@Suhaan @express bowling Ashok Malhotra under fire for some below the belt comments against Assam. 

 

 

 

The issue

 

 

 

 

One can expect such low IQ statements from Ashok Malhotra, somethings are not meant to be said "on air"..what used to be discussed in dressing room or between the match should stay there.

[Suhaan]

14 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Looks like Parag responded to him 

 

These are dihati ex cricketers, should be responded accordingly Ike MC,BC

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

People calling mukesh innocuous ,he isn't 90mph but isn't a venkatesh prasad either.

Bhaiya kaun duniya me rehte ho? This is not 1980 or 1990 that we keep promoting trundlers because we do not have options. Wake up and smell the coffee. These mostly ' 128-130ish' bowlers and at times '134-137' bowlers are innocuous. When you lack in pace, then you got to have the skills of Wasim Akram or Glen Mcgrath, day in day out to keep batsmen on their toes. If you think Mr Mukesh is a reincarnation of Wasim and Mcgrath, then I have no complaints. But he isn't that, then tbh, you wouldnt be able to trust him in pressure situation.

 

Quick bowlers induce fear. Wasim, Waqar, Brett, and the ilk aren't noobs to keep suggesting India gives chances to the quicker bowlers. 

 

[singhvivek141]

38 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Horses for courses at best

Bhai koi course nahi hai uska.

Simple rule, if you are a trundler, you must have a strong secondary skill to justify your selection. Thakur & Chahar has that utility.

 

Even then they're not safe, if someone like Harshit, Yudhvir or Gurnoor offers same skillset with some distinct advantages (high pace, bounce etc) they should be prioritized first.

 

Indian Cricket has promoted such limited skill lazy bowlers for ages.

[prudent_kreeda]

3 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

He keeps things tight and bowls all day.

 

Our quick bowlers struggle to get lbws and bowleds,so likes of mukesh gets noticed.

 

Maybe tyagi,umran etc can band together and hire likes of lee or steyn as their personal coach and see if they can improve.

This should be the job of BCCI.

1.First find root causes of so many injuries to them even without playing matches & address those issues  

 2.Have specialist coaching set up at NCA for periodic training under a very good former pacer for young quickies .

They should get the basics right to get wickets in longer version - pace, line & length , setting up batsmen, Seam movement , release  etc. 

3. Do not mess selection of pacers for different formats - Identify your Test match contenders , who can also do well in 50 overs .

4.For T20 a separate set of pacers should be identified and they should have separate training more on T20 bowling skills .

I think not playing first class games - which improves line & length and wicket taking skills and trying to fit into T20 bowling - which messes up consistency by trying to do too many things within an over leads them with no mastery neither in longer format nor shorter format. 

NA ghar ka ghat ka situation !

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

Mukesh can bowl 130-140,he is hardly innocuous.He isn't quick but ain't that slow either.

 

Need quick skilful bowlers, especially if the pacers are from.Asia 

 

No 130 k to 140 k pacer has ever been a top notch pacer ( low average pacer across formats )  for any Asian team ( who play 60% of their games on slow surfaces )

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

He keeps things tight and bowls all day.

 

Our quick bowlers struggle to get lbws and bowleds,so likes of mukesh gets noticed.

 

Maybe tyagi,umran etc can band togather and hire likes of lee or steyn as their personal coach and see if they can improve.

Umran has outperformed Mukesh in T20's.

Tyagi outperforms Mukesh in List A.

Sen has better stats than Mukesh in List A.

 

Akashdeep, Kaverappa & Mayank Yadav has better stats than Mukesh in all 3 domestic formats.

 

How did Mukesh leapfrogged them ?

[express bowling]

38 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

He keeps things tight and bowls all day.

 

 

 

When we have or had pacers like Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Prasidh, Ishant 2.0 who all can or could do the same at 5 kph to 7 kph higher speeds, more zip off the deck and much more bounce and hostility .. then why do we want to go back to 128 k to 138 k pacers like Mukesh and Unadkat  !!

 

We should look for the next Bumrah and Shami

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Umran has outperformed Mukesh in T20's.

Tyagi outperforms Mukesh in List A.

Sen has better stats than Mukesh in List A.

 

Akashdeep, Kaverappa & Mayank Yadav has better stats than Mukesh in all 3 domestic formats.

 

How did Mukesh leapfrogged them ?

 

Harshit Rana has good stats in FC Cricket. Can bowl 145 k+ .. Is 6'3" or 6'2" .. Can bat .. keeps bowling with intensity in 4 day cricket.

 

After Prasidh, it's Harshit who has to be groomed for Test cricket. And Kuldeep Sen.

 

For ODIs there is Mayank Yadav and Kuldeep Sen who are performing. And surely Tyagi should be tried as he is bowling at 152 k and has a good yorker. Then there is Umran.

 

It's a travesty that Mukesh, Unadkat, Mavi etc. are coming in despite seeing Bumrah, Siraj, Shami and Prasidh bowling well with pace and fire. 

 

 

[Adamant]

22 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Tyagi is a pretty skilful bowler.

 

.. Can swing the ball both ways

.. Can seam the ball in

.. Good yorker

.. Nasty bouncer / good rising short ball from a high release point.

.. Has bowled well in crunch moments.

 

If he can / when he can get his lines right, Tyagi will be a very good bowler too apart from being very fast.

 

If I were his coach / mentor, I would work on his bowling lines .. shorten his steps a bit .. tell him to bowl close to the stumps and stump to stump at full pace. 

 

.. 

 

For me he is the best upcoming talent and has the ability to be our beat ever pacer behind Bumrah.

I know he has everything, just needs to play some more domestic, work on his lengths and control and that’s it, he will be ready to rock

[Suhaan]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

And surely Tyagi should be tried as he is bowling at 152 k and has a good yorker. Then there is Umran.

Noone is endorsing that,good that SM has a buzz now

But the men responsible are Saap sungh gaya kind of,no mention

He was bowling hostile overs yesterday 6-7 deliveries at 150-150+ and many in 145-148

No mentioning about it

I have seen SENA domestic commentators create such a beautiful PR about their pacers spontaneously,not even the native language speakers do that

 

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, Adamant said:

For me he is the best upcoming talent and has the ability to be our beat ever pacer behind Bumrah.

I know he has everything, just needs to play some more domestic, work on his lengths and control and that’s it, he will be ready to rock

 

Tyagi needs to play this full Ranji season. 

 

If he doesn't then he is has only himself to blame for his career unless injury interferes. 

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Noone is endorsing that,good that SM has a buzz now

But the men responsible are Saap sungh gaya kind of,no mention

He was bowling hostile overs yesterday 6-7 deliveries at 150-150+ and many in 145-148

No mentioning about it

I have seen SENA domestic commentators create such a beautiful PR about their pacers spontaneously,not even the native language speakers do that

 

 

Hope Agarkar has noticed Tyagi's pace and hostility.

Edited November 1, 2023 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Harshal can also bowl 140+ when he really put his best foot forward. He has bowled upto 142-143 as well, will you consider him as "Fast bowler" ?

 

Mukesh's speed is 128-134 (just like Bhuvi)...he can hit 138-139 when he really tries to but he can't do it consistently.

 

India needs bowlers who can bowl 135+ on consistent basis, bowlers who can bowl 140+ consistently and are tall have distinct advantages. Mukesh falls in neither of the categories. Only has a utility when the ball is hard & new...post that just a baggage on the remaining bowlers.

 

Add to that he is atrociously poor fielder and even poorer with bat. Why would anyone want to waste time by selecting such limited skillset bowlers ? Deepak Chahar provides much more advantages than Mukesh can ever do so in his entire career.

Mukesh is someone you may have as 3rd -4th pacer when your first choice is injured in tests overseas

He's surely disciplined to be played that way

But no way he should be playing ahead of Tyagi,Sen,Harshit,Mayank,Yudhvir,Prasidh

Ideally he should be coming much later in the pecking order

[MK55]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Hope Agarkar hax noticed Tyagi's pace and hostility.

This Agarkar hasn’t got the balls to take bold decisions. Gives me that impression.

[Suhaan]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Harshit Rana has good stats in FC Cricket. Can bowl 145 k+ .. Is 6'3" or 6'2" .. Can bat .. keeps bowling with intensity in 4 day cricket.

 

After Prasidh, it's Harshit who has to be groomed for Test cricket. And Kuldeep Sen.

 

For ODIs there is Mayank Yadav and Kuldeep Sen who are performing. And surely Tyagi should be tried as he is bowling at 152 k and has a good yorker. Then there is Umran.

 

It's a travesty that Mukesh, Unadkat, Mavi etc. are coming in despite seeing Bumrah, Siraj, Shami and Prasidh bowling well with pace and fire. 

 

 

Kuldeep Sen is not too young either,he has to play now onwards

[MK55]

I think Tyagi leap frogs every bowler out there. I don’t care, think of it as bias or whatever but he needs to be given priority over others.  It’s good in the long term for the team especially if we are looking to perform overseas. Also makes it entertaining for the viewers. 

We haven’t got a single genuine quick right now in the side. With the way Siraj has downgraded, it will be trouble once we move out of the subcontinent. Can’t expect Bumrah to do it every f time especially with the chronic injuries he’s had.