Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Rightarmfast]

40 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

That's what I said,people here are saying 130-140k is innocuous trundling but it isn't ,greats like McGrath bowled at that pace

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mcgrath is a legend of the game. You cant give his example to say we need medium pacers. Other bowlers are not like Mcgrath, hence they need pace. The logic presented here is absolutely wrong.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

In indian conditions pacers aren't needed,and outside asia those guys are good enough,that leaves us with ban,sl since we don't tour pak.

 

England and NZ have never been dominant test teams because they have these medium paced swing bowlers 

 

In the last 50 yeaes, Test cricket has been dominated by WI, Australia and SA and recently India, who all have or had multiple pacers bowling 140 k+ with bounce and skills.

[MediumPacer]

10 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Mcgrath is a legend of the game. You cant give his example to say we need medium pacers. Other bowlers are not like Mcgrath, hence they need pace. The logic presented here is absolutely wrong.

My point is 130-140 ain't slow,I don't know why people don't want to accept it,< 130 you can call it slow.

[MediumPacer]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

England and NZ have never been dominant test teams because they have these medium paced swing bowlers 

 

In the last 50 yeaes, Test cricket has been dominated by WI, Australia and SA and recently India, who all have or had multiple pacers bowling 140 k+ with bounce and skills.

We aren't 140k+ in tests,top speed is around 145.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, MediumPacer said:

We aren't 140k+ in tests,top speed is around 145.

 

Top speeds of 143 k to 147 k .. a significant % of deliveries above 140 k .... that is 140 k+ bowling. 

 

 

[MediumPacer]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Top speeds of 143 k to 147 k .. a significant % of deliveries above 140 k .... that is 140 k+ bowling. 

 

 

140 would be 140-150,we are a bit short of that.

[express bowling]

Just now, MediumPacer said:

140 would be 140-150,we are a bit short of that.

 

140 to 150 k pacers are called 145 k+ pacers.

[MediumPacer]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

140 to 150 k pacers are called 145 k+ pacers.

145+ is confusing ,call them 90mph, ie 90-100mph,genuine fast.

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

145+ is confusing ,call them 90mph, ie 90-100mph,genuine fast.

See, in all the discussions we do here on this thread..the bare minimum pace is always mentioned as 135k...that's the pace range which bowler must hit atleast if he is auditioning for a pure bowler..if he is less than that..he must have some exceptional skills (banana swing, tall hit the deck) or a secondary skill...McGrath, Pollock, Philander, Hadlee, Kapil etc all come under this criteria.

 

Now mathematically 130-140 does mean average of 135k, but bowlers who oscillate at this range their average pace is generally 132 or 133k. We have seen this example with likes of Arshdeep, Harshal who does clock 141-142 at times...but their average pace always is under 135...they are medium fast or borderline trundler.

 

While when we talk of pacers who are 135-145k, their average pace comes somewhere around 138-139k..above the acceptable limited of 135k...fast medium category which most of our tier 1 quicks are.

 

Bowlers who are 140-150k usually have their average pace in 143/144k...they are fast. Now you can create a subcategory here with fast & express but usually bowlers with 145+ average pace are very rare.

 

Ofcourse any bowler whose average pace is under 130 is trundler for me...but some consider under 125k as trundler.

Edited November 24, 2023 by singhvivek141

[express bowling]

34 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

145+ is confusing ,call them 90mph, ie 90-100mph,genuine fast.

 

A bowler is usually termed by the mid point of his usual speed range, rounded off to the nearest 5s or 0s.

 

There are no 90 mph to 100 mph pacers except Lee or Shoaib in their quickest 2 years. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

My point is 130-140 ain't slow,I don't know why people don't want to accept it,< 130 you can call it slow.

Anything below 136/137 is not going to have much effect. Unless the bowler is mixing it with 140+ balls, 135ish will be cannon fodder. When the batsman is under no pressure, they will murder the bowler. 

 

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

 

 

Here is bumrah under 140k at his quickest

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check Lockie 145k

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F55ar3cfhzr271.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D40c0c0767481303b4e46eabd1af089013b4a55f9

 

 

 

 

 

135-140 is quick enough pace. Someone like Steyn mostly bowled this pace in test but he had 5th gear where he could bowl a whole spell of 140-150. He knew when bowl line length with swing and when quick. It's important to have that 5th gear.

[express bowling]

24 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

135-140 is quick enough pace. 

 

Someone averaging 137 k to 139 k range invariably bowls a good % of deliveries in the 140 to 145 k range or higher. 

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

 

 

Here is bumrah under 140k at his quickest

 

 

 

 

Check Lockie 145k

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F55ar3cfhzr271.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D40c0c0767481303b4e46eabd1af089013b4a55f9

Trent Boult is faster than Umesh and almost toe to toe with Rabada, who would have though that ? I have not seen Hadlee live & Bond played very little...I can surely say he is the best fast bowler from NZ after Sir Richard Hadlee, criminally underrated.

 

Hazelwood as quick as Shami is surprising tbh. This shows that though Hazelwood don't bowl 145+ but is able to sustain his pace day in & day out. 

Bumrah averaging almost 140k in Tests is fast stuff 

 

Umesh to Lahiru are in fast medium category...from Cummins to Start are in fast category (rounding off the speeds).

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Trent Boult is faster than Umesh and almost toe to toe with Rabada, who would have though that ? I have not seen Hadlee live & Bond played very little...I can surely say he is the best fast bowler from NZ after Sir Richard Hadlee, criminally underrated.

 

Hazelwood as quick as Shami is surprising tbh. This shows that though Hazelwood don't bowl 145+ but is able to sustain his pace day in & day out. 

Bumrah averaging almost 140k in Tests is fast stuff 

 

Umesh to Lahiru are in fast medium category...from Cummins to Start are in fast category (rounding off the speeds).

 

Umesh cut down pace in late 2017.

 

He averaged 138 k to 144 k in different innings from 2011 to mid 2017

[Suhaan]

38 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Trent Boult is faster than Umesh and almost toe to toe with Rabada, who would have though that ? I have not seen Hadlee live & Bond played very little...I can surely say he is the best fast bowler from NZ after Sir Richard Hadlee, criminally underrated.

 

Hazelwood as quick as Shami is surprising tbh. This shows that though Hazelwood don't bowl 145+ but is able to sustain his pace day in & day out. 

Bumrah averaging almost 140k in Tests is fast stuff 

 

Umesh to Lahiru are in fast medium category...from Cummins to Start are in fast category (rounding off the speeds).

Umesh slowed down 2017 onwards

Till 2017 he was very quick,faster than Cummins I would say in that period

[Lone Wolf]

@express bowling @Mosher @singhvivek141

What is the pace attack you like to see in these Three 4 day games. 

My pick is Tyagi Harshit Mayank & a Fast bowling A/R Raj Bawa. 

 

[Need4Speed]

18 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

Yorkers don't last that long,we have seen likes of kaul, nattu,arshdeep before

Yorkers shudnt be only speciality..it needs to be variety..block hole yorkers..wide yorkers..slower bowls..wide slower balls…dipping full tosses...bouncers…slower bouncers etc..

one needs to have all the varieties to be a successful T20 pacer..

[Need4Speed]

18 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

He is not a 138-140kph pacer...even Bhuvi has bowled 144k in T20's but that's not his natural pace.

 

Last year everyone here (including me) was going ga ga over Arshdeep's yorkers and pin point accuracy in death while hitting 140k..one year down the line & Arshdeep is just spraying the ball everywhere.

 

Mukesh in SMAT was going for 30 runs in 2 overs, 32 runs in 3 overs...so it's not like he has magically found a mojo. He got his yorkers right and the full tosses Tim David missed to strike...but based on one game we can't decide if he can partner Bumrah as main bowler. Tyagi has defended 4 runs in an IPL by hitting pin point yorkers...everyday isn't the same. You have to see in multiple situations & scenarios.

I agree but we have to give credit where its due..he bowled well..it needs to be seen how he bowls in next 4 matches..

This is going to high scoring series..with Maxie..Head to feature as well.. if he bowks well overall..you cant just leave him out of the squad..

his stocks are rising as Arshdeep’s stocks are coming down..

[Need4Speed]

18 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

In India, once a player becomes a part of the inner coterie, he plays all or multiple formats unless he is a gross LOI misfit like Pujara. 

 

Mukesh was chosen for all formats earlier this year. 

Thats stupidity on selectors part..

we need to find a bowler who can partner Bumrah in T20s..

Shami has yorkers and wkt taking capability upfront but under the pump he can be taken for plenty..same with Siraj..

peak Bhuvi was a good partber for Boom but he is far away from it..

Arshdeep shiwed intitial promise but currently losing track..

I would like Tyagis..Umrans Rana’s and Mayank to be groomed but practically they are not near to the wcup squad..

unless they or someone has blockbuster IPL..we all know..they wont be selected..

 

If Mukesh Kr dont perform well in remaining T20s..I will criticize him too..