Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[deepdynamo]

Indian selectors don't go with potential or vision. They just go with queue or pecking order. 

Right now apart from the main attack ( Bumrah-Shami-Siraj),  Mukesh, Avesh, Prasidh, Chahar, Arshdeep are in mix.

Next in line are Kaverrapa, Harshit, Deshpande and Akashdeep ( based on their selection in India A squad)

Kartik Tyagi, Mayank Yadav, Kuldeep Sen, Umran Malik, Yudhvir etc. are nowhere in contention. They need to to have a breakout IPL season to jump the queue. 
 

[tapandrun]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:45 AM, Mesky99 said:

This lad minad manjrekar has barely played for mumbai, season after season he gets ignored by the chutiya mumbai selectors, strong, tall, genarates good bounce, pace.  Great talent 

 

Saw him in Ranji last year, v.unlike to other Mumbai bowlers. 

 

Mumbai generally have skiddy pacers. not sure of pace but had good inwards movement fr rh batters with red-ball. 

 

[tapandrun]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:56 PM, harpicP said:

Gaurav yadav? He was rapid as in ranji a few years back. 

Nathu Singh another one that was real quick.

Raj. team selection is and has been off, they have 2 U-19 bowlers (nagarkoti, akash)unable to make it to the team. Think Bishnoi moved to some other state. 

There are few others capable of 140+kmph bowlers who can not even make it to their T20 side. Which is same in other state team where proper pacer donot make into playing 11 regularly.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

Here Waqar endorsing Shaheen needs to bowl fast. Though Shaheen has never been that quick in Tests.

Same bowler same skill but lack of pace making him look like club level, he does not even look like the best bowler in his side where 2 were making their debut.

 

Aus and Pak understands what extra pace means, they donot beat around the bush. Had it been Ind experts they would have been telling control, line length etc. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by tapandrun

[express bowling]

Prasidh makes his test debut.

 

Too late at age 27 ..  but better late than never. 

 

 

[express bowling]

This pitch has uneven bounce and is dangerous for batters as many balls are rearing up unnaturally from length.

 

But no one says it is a doctored pitch. 

[express bowling]

Rabada has bowled 129 k to 137 k most of the time.

 

Coetzee 132 k to 140 k mostly. Saw one at 143 k. 

 

Nandre Burger was the fastest among the Saffers, bowling 134 k to 143 k mostly. One ball was mentioned to be at 149 k.

Edited December 26, 2023 by express bowling

[harpicP]

59 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Rabada has bowled 129 k to 137 k most of the time.

 

Coetzee 132 k to 140 k mostly. Saw one at 143 k. 

 

Nandre Burger the fastest among the Saffers, bowling 134 k to 143 k mostly. One ball was mentioned to be at 149 k.

You forgot hansen. He bowled 130 to 141

[tapandrun]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Rabada has bowled 129 k to 137 k most of the time.

 

Coetzee 132 k to 140 k mostly. Saw one at 143 k. 

 

Nandre Burger was the fastest among the Saffers, bowling 134 k to 143 k mostly. One ball was mentioned to be at 149 k.

Rabada has slowed down since 2019, bowls mostly under 140 kmph in test, even in T20 he has been bowling sub 145 kmph and effort ball touching 144 kmph.

This could be because they already have a high pace bowler in Nortje.

 

 

[tapandrun]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Prasidh makes his test debut.

 

Too late at age 27 ..  but better late than never. 

 

 

He got injured plus this TM and selectors does not seem to have any plan to bring in new fast bowling stock. If Shami would have been fit then there was no debut for Krishna.

 

3/4 years back Ind had  multiple high quality pace bowlers on the bench and ready to play any test match when needed, now they lack even a single replacement. This is not due to lack of resources but lack of planning.

 

[Rightarmfast]

Tbh, its only Indian fast bowlers who are picked and humiliated at reducing pace. Fact is, most fast bowlers reduce pace. Rabada is the latest. All the Pakistani bowlers have reduced pace. Rabada at that pace in the subcontinent will be easy picking. 

Having said that, it is South African conditions and Rabada is used to playing there. And the pitch being as dangerous as it is, he is still being effective. Otherwise, I didnt feel the Saffers bowled well. None of them. Another day, another pitch and they could have been taken to the cleaners.

[tapandrun]

51 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Tbh, its only Indian fast bowlers who are picked and humiliated at reducing pace. Fact is, most fast bowlers reduce pace. Rabada is the latest. All the Pakistani bowlers have reduced pace. Rabada at that pace in the subcontinent will be easy picking. 

Having said that, it is South African conditions and Rabada is used to playing there. And the pitch being as dangerous as it is, he is still being effective. Otherwise, I didnt feel the Saffers bowled well. None of them. Another day, another pitch and they could have been taken to the cleaners.

Pak team is not a good usecase here, they have been focusing on white-ball for a v.long time and T20 in-particular, one could imagine a 140/145kmph bowler  in t20 would atleast go 135+kmph regularly and go at top speeds in 1/2 spell in test, but this never happened to their entire bowling unit.

 

Rabada has a serious drop in pace and v.suddenly, SA has this way of structuring their bowling unit to have all kind of bowlers and once they get a guy faster than previous guy then the previous guy reduces their speeds a bit and bowl longer spells.

 

Aus has been lacking the back-ups and these 3 guys have been bowling for a long time. so reduction in pace is understandable, this is for the first time that Aus does not have an express bowler and not in the back-ups as well. Saw BBL highlights Moris didnt seem to go higher than 145kmph in t20s.

 

On other hand Ind has serious problems on selections.

Edited December 26, 2023 by tapandrun

[Rightarmfast]

6 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Pak team is not a good usecase here, they have been focusing on white-ball for a v.long time and T20 in-particular, one could imagine a 140/145kmph bowler  in t20 would atleast go 135+kmph regularly and go at top speeds in 1/2 spell in test, but this never happened to their entire bowling unit.

 

Rabada has a serious drop in pace and v.suddenly, SA has this way of structuring their bowling unit to have all kind of bowlers and once they get a guy faster than previous guy then the previous guy reduces their speeds a bit and bowl longer spells.

 

Aus has been lacking the back-ups and these 3 guys have been bowling for a long time. so reduction in pace is understandable, this is for the first time that Aus does not have an express bowler and not in the back-ups as well. Saw BBL highlights Moris didnt seem to go higher than 145kmph in t20s.

 

On other hand Ind has serious problems on selections.

Agreed, Pak is not a great example. But their whole USP being pace, cant help but quote. As far as Aussies are concerned, its no excuse that they have been playing long. Starc has reduced pace drastically, so has Cummins.

I spoke overall infact. Even a Waqar was quick only for the first 3 yrs of his career. After that was all hype. 

As against Bumrah, Shami, Umesh Yadav who have maintained their pace for a much longer time. Hell, even Aaron Varun bowls in excess of 145 even till now in domestic cricket.

[tapandrun]

20 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Agreed, Pak is not a great example. But their whole USP being pace, cant help but quote. As far as Aussies are concerned, its no excuse that they have been playing long. Starc has reduced pace drastically, so has Cummins.

I spoke overall infact. Even a Waqar was quick only for the first 3 yrs of his career. After that was all hype. 

As against Bumrah, Shami, Umesh Yadav who have maintained their pace for a much longer time. Hell, even Aaron Varun bowls in excess of 145 even till now in domestic cricket.

 

Aaron was a potential 145+ kmph test bowler for Ind, didnt get the support he deserved plus he had back injury.  Think he was a yard or two faster than Umesh.

Could have been a serious duo, nice repeatable action able to bowl quick in Tests and was quite skiddy he too could have been useful in Ind conditions if he could develop some yorkers.

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Tbh, its only Indian fast bowlers who are picked and humiliated at reducing pace. Fact is, most fast bowlers reduce pace. Rabada is the latest. All the Pakistani bowlers have reduced pace. .

 

 

Exactly !

 

Nowadays, we are seeing the opposite. Indian quicks are the only ones maintaining pace and sometimes even increasing it.

 

Both Bumrah and Prasidh have crossed 147 kph multiple times after return from serious and prolinged back injuries. Siraj has become quicker. Shami, probably in his late 30s now in reality, still crossing 144 k.

 

But broadcasters and commentators keep mum about this. Star is promoting the "Fire" of the Proteas and showing Indians getting hit by short balls while we are just "defending". The vicious deliveries by the Indian quicks are not marketed. 

 

Can't understand this meek mentality !!

 

Coetzee has,already reduced pace after a couple of months of international cricket. Burger is much slower in the long format too. But no one says anything. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by express bowling

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, tapandrun said:

He got injured plus this TM and selectors does not seem to have any plan to bring in new fast bowling stock. If Shami would have been fit then there was no debut for Krishna.

 

3/4 years back Ind had  multiple high quality pace bowlers on the bench and ready to play any test match when needed, now they lack even a single replacement. This is not due to lack of resources but lack of planning.

 

 

 

I don't understand why our TMs and selectors, of the last 15 years, don't understand the need for tall, hit the deck quicks for tests and ODIs Outside Asia.  There was a time when we used Srinath, Prasad, Ankola, Kuruvilla etc.

 

The need is obvious in Australia and SA. But even in tests in England and NZ, in the 2nd innings, the pitches usually flatten out and bounce bowlers are needed.

 

I don't understand why the Indian TMs and selectors, in the last 20 years, have always wanted a completely swing dependant pace attack and never wanted to use bounce as a weapon. !! 

 

On our 2022 tour of SA, Prasidh was fit and played the ODIs. But why was he not played in tests is beyond me. Did not play even after Siraj got injured. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Aussie pace attack looking tired.

 

Starc spraying the ball at 135 k to 140 k now. 

[Suhaan]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Aussie pace attack looking tired.

 

Starc spraying the ball at 135 k to 140 k now. 

Australia don't have backup beyond these 3,playing every time the same pacers says it all

Obviously they will get tired and opposition will beneyfrom it

They have noone to enforce things after Starc is nowhere near his absolute pacy best

[tapandrun]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Aussie pace attack looking tired.

 

Starc spraying the ball at 135 k to 140 k now. 

They are seriously lacking a 145+ kmph bowler, last test 1st pak innings  was good for sometime till take starting playing loose.

They are certainly v.good at consistently bowling at good line and length and if batter is not playing it tight, they will get them. Thats what happened to Pak. batting.

 

But to break in to a batter ready to play tight is getting hard for them. Need a 145+ kmph bowler to soften the better make them play out of their comfort zone, hit them few.  

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I don't understand why our TMs and selectors, of the last 15 years, don't understand the need for tall, hit the deck quicks for tests and ODIs Outside Asia.  There was a time when we used Srinath, Prasad, Ankola, Kuruvilla etc.

 

The need is obvious in Australia and SA. But even in tests in England and NZ, in the 2nd innings, the pitches usually flatten out and bounce bowlers are needed.

 

I don't understand why the Indian TMs and selectors, in the last 20 years, have always wanted a completely swing dependant pace attack and never wanted to use bounce as a weapon. !! 

 

On our 2022 tour of SA, Prasidh was fit and played the ODIs. But why was he not played in tests is beyond me. Did not play even after Siraj got injured. 

 

Do not think there are many seam bowlers in Domestic cricket, there are multiple bowler bowling at nibbly-dibbly pace and batter getting out to them by poking at the ball.

 

Not sure why Ind TM and selectors do not pick high potential pace bowlers, they sent Saini with Ind -A what is the point of it now could have sent Mayank Yadav/Tiyagi. 

Have  no hopes with the TM they do not promote genuine quicks. Mayank, Tiyagi, Umran, Sen  you have three 145 kmph  bowlers invest in them even if 1 makes it big you can build a bowling attack around them or have a proper bench strength.

 

There must be something stopping these genuine quicks(not just above three but there are few other who are into 140s) from making into the team, why such a strong liking towards sub 140 kmph bowlers. An express bowlers who can win you few matches will reduce the star-status of the batters which imo is stopping TM/ captains from picking good pacers, treatment sen got in Bd was not that good- First captain showed he was un-happy then dropped him from the team next game.

 

Following the Ind TM state teams are also not picking 140+ kmph bowlers.

 Punjab didnt give too many matches to Gurnoor 

Raj team didnt pick Ashok - he was the best bowler by far in their T20 league

Jkd- Dint even pick Sakeeb for many games

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by tapandrun