Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[tapandrun]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:57 AM, Rightarmfast said:

I am guessing our legendary coach ' D(arwin)rabid has a major say. Heard him say ample times that Indians are not meant for bowling fast. Could be his words and his mariyal attitude that Bumrah is bowling so thakela.

Never thought I would say this, but I miss piyakkad Shastri. We need him

There has been structural disliking towards genuine quicks in Ind cricketing circles.

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

There has been structural disliking towards genuine quicks in Ind cricketing circles.

I have said that many a times, and I will say that again... The whole hierarchy doesnt support genuine quickies because once you start taking in genuine quickies, the sifareeshi bowlers cant get in. Sifareeshi players can pay money or have contacts, but they cant get pace. So, the best option is not to promote genuine quicks so such a situation doesnt arrive that it becomes danger for sifareeshi bowlers. 

Anybody who thinks otherwise is naive. Or believes in flat earth theory! 

[Rightarmfast]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck! 

No other way to justify military medium sifareeshi bowlers.

[tapandrun]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:55 PM, express bowling said:

 

 

Bumrah's USP, till his 2nd back injury in mid 2022, was how hard he hit the bat. We don't really get a proper impression of that on TV. If one saw him.practicing before the match on those practice pitches, it felt scary. Much much more so than the other pacers practicing with him. 

 

While I haven't had the opportunity to see him in a stadium after his comeback, it is quite apparent that he is not hitting the bat as hard as he used to on a consistent basis. Only doing so maybe with 30% of his deliveries as opposed to say 90% earlier.

 

His release speeds are still good but that is only part of the story.

 

He is likely to be less scary and more condition dependant if he continues in the same vein from now on. 

 

He has reduced his speeds since the first back injury, he was able to slip in few 150 kmph bowls when needed and some in high 140s.

 

Since then he has never bowled in the bracket, and once he developed the bowl coming back into the LH batters he has relied upon swing more than seam.

Would not read much into the first test he is coming back from injury may want into ease into the test cricket. Also Ind bowler were unable to figure the lengths and the speeds to bowl at on this wkt plus SA batters did edge the ball too, they are use to of playing on such wkts.

 

But the question is has Bhumrah lost the sting , is he using swing more  - Answer is yes and this had started after his first injury and when he developed that out swinger to rh batter.

 

The problem has been the selection and bowling composition, you can not have a bowler doing multiple jobs if he is no longer an enforcer/hit the wkt kind of bowler Ind need to bring in that kind of a bowler. Can not have same bowler bowling longer spells, bowl fast and hold on the run-rate.

 

Ishant was your man for bowling longer and economical spells , Bhumra was you impact and Shami was consistently tight at decent pace. 

 

Ind needs to relook in-to the composition, is Thakur your no. 3/4 bowler ? Krishna needs to bowl in 140s kmph consistently else he is just bowling rightarm nothing kind of bowling.   

 

[tapandrun]

Nz's Ben Sears seems to be quick bowled some balls over 145 kmph and touched 149, 148 kmph against Bd.

 

 

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Nz's Ben Sears seems to be quick bowled some balls over 145 kmph and touched 149, 148 kmph against Bd.

 

 

Yes he is quick

At times falls like Wood in his follow through

Edited December 31, 2023 by Suhaan

[Need4Speed]

Let all the teams in the world 145+ pace pace and let Indian team build 125k pace attack..bcci snd tm are visionaries

Edited December 31, 2023 by Need4Speed

[tapandrun]

52 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Let all the teams in the world 145+ pace pace and let Indian team build 125k pace attack..bcci snd tm are visionaries

What could be the rational behind this ??

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

What could be the rational behind this ??

Indian Cricket needs a reboot. The old system of being conservative isn't working for us anymore.

 

Fast bowlers are expected to deliver results immediately while the line length trundlers are protected even after multiple failures. 

 

A country like India which doesn't have a very strong fast bowling setup, bowlers will take time to develop, and if a fast bowler doesn't develop as intended, he should be replaced by a fast bowler only instead of a lazy 125kph trundler.

[AKane]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:03 PM, express bowling said:

Pollock was pointing out repeatedly how LHB Elgar has been dismissed regularly in the last 18 months by short ball at the ribs from over the wicket for right arm pacers.

 

Jansen is not comfortable against short stuff either.

 

But we hardly tried any short stuff against them till they reached 150+ and 60+ respectively.

 

So why doesn't the great Bumrah do it? Esp with the new red cherry he takes as the Indian avatar of Malcolm Marshall.....

 

The bakra for the short pitched stuff was poor innocuous Thakur and occasionally nervous debutante Prasidh. Without any short leg as usual.

 

These are short balls at the body - no innocuous bouncers  outside off or high over head which do nothing to any batsman.

 

Thakur to Coetzee, no run

That's a rip roaring bouncer that has Cotzee ducking for cover! He takes his eyes off, hangs his gloves out as the ball lobs up in the air. No one at short leg to gobble that up.

 

Thakur to Jansen, SIX runs

He has blasted that one over the fine leg boundary, deep into the stands. Jansen was prepared for the short ball and when it arrived, he simply got inside the line and walloped that away.

 

Thakur to Elgar, FOUR runs

Gloves the pull but it flies wide of Rahul down leg for four! Not where Elgar intended it to go but he'll take them. Could Rahul have put in a dive? Perhaps.

 

Thakur to Elgar, (no ball) FOUR runs

There's the hundred and he brings it up with an imperious pull in front of square. Elgar's 14th in Tests, his second against India. Centuries are special, even more so if it happens to come in front of your home crowd. Elgar is pleased as punch. Centurion stands up to applaud a super knock.

 

Thakur to Bedingham, SIX runs

More agony for Shardul and India! Bedingham has pulled him for six. Short and angling in, he swivelled back and simply helped it along as the ball sails over the fine leg boundary.

 

Prasidh to Bedingham, SIX runs

Wow! Short of length from Prasidh, at the batter. Bedingham moved slightly towards the off side and pulled it nonchalantly over deep square leg. Had so much time to play that shot

 

 

Thakur cannot bowl bouncers effectively to main batsmen ( not Coetzee types ) ...... and the main heroes  don't want to bowl frequent bouncers ..... so there we have it. 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by AKane

[Need4Speed]

5 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Indian Cricket needs a reboot. The old system of being conservative isn't working for us anymore.

 

Fast bowlers are expected to deliver results immediately while the line length trundlers are protected even after multiple failures. 

 

A country like India which doesn't have a very strong fast bowling setup, bowlers will take time to develop, and if a fast bowler doesn't develop as intended, he should be replaced by a fast bowler only instead of a lazy 125kph trundler.

Haan jaise trundler kebabs are taking world by the storm and winning us finals and SENA test series..

[Need4Speed]

6 hours ago, tapandrun said:

What could be the rational behind this ??

When a road is poorly built with inferior material and shitty contractors and doesnt last one season of rain…

why its repaired every season with same kind of shoddy material and work…instead of better quality…

simply its corruption and keep the flow of money going on..

[harpicP]

5 hours ago, AKane said:

 

So why doesn't the great Bumrah do it? Esp with the new red cherry he takes as the Indian avatar of Malcolm Marshall.....

 

The bakra for the short pitched stuff was poor innocuous Thakur and occasionally nervous debutante Prasidh. Without any short leg as usual.

 

These are short balls at the body - no innocuous bouncers  outside off or high over head which do nothing to any batsman.

 

Thakur to Coetzee, no run

That's a rip roaring bouncer that has Cotzee ducking for cover! He takes his eyes off, hangs his gloves out as the ball lobs up in the air. No one at short leg to gobble that up.

 

Thakur to Jansen, SIX runs

He has blasted that one over the fine leg boundary, deep into the stands. Jansen was prepared for the short ball and when it arrived, he simply got inside the line and walloped that away.

 

Thakur to Elgar, FOUR runs

Gloves the pull but it flies wide of Rahul down leg for four! Not where Elgar intended it to go but he'll take them. Could Rahul have put in a dive? Perhaps.

 

Thakur to Elgar, (no ball) FOUR runs

There's the hundred and he brings it up with an imperious pull in front of square. Elgar's 14th in Tests, his second against India. Centuries are special, even more so if it happens to come in front of your home crowd. Elgar is pleased as punch. Centurion stands up to applaud a super knock.

 

Thakur to Bedingham, SIX runs

More agony for Shardul and India! Bedingham has pulled him for six. Short and angling in, he swivelled back and simply helped it along as the ball sails over the fine leg boundary.

 

Prasidh to Bedingham, SIX runs

Wow! Short of length from Prasidh, at the batter. Bedingham moved slightly towards the off side and pulled it nonchalantly over deep square leg. Had so much time to play that shot

 

 

Thakur cannot bowl bouncers effectively to main batsmen ( not Coetzee types ) ...... and the main heroes  don't want to bowl frequent bouncers ..... so there we have it. 

 

Exactly. Great bumrah dint bowl a single bouncer at Elgar’s ribs. Not one. He used to till 2021. Not anymore.

 

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, harpicP said:

Exactly. Great bumrah dint bowl a single bouncer at Elgar’s ribs. Not one. He used to till 2021. Not anymore.

 

He doesn't want to injure himself and miss IPL at this juncture

IPL money is huge

IPL has its advantages with disadvantages

[tapandrun]

Harshit, Mayank, Mohsin not in Ranji team??

Edited January 1, 2024 by tapandrun

[singhvivek141]

10 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Harshit, Mayank, Mohsin not in Ranji team??

Harshit has injury issues.

Mohsin tbh isn't seen as a red ball bowler, he is used only as a T20 specialist..plus has fitness issues as well.

 

Mayank's absence is surprising. Kuldeep Sen is also not present in any of the squads. So only Kartik Tyagi is the flag bearer of "fast bowling" in Ranji Trophy.

Edited January 1, 2024 by singhvivek141

[tapandrun]

Waseem Bashir and Umran Malik both in Ranji team

[tapandrun]

no kuldeep sen in ranji

[Mosher]

Beauty by Bumrah. Inswinging yorker at 142 to Elgar. 

[Mosher]

Bumrah strikes! Great start by Bumrah and Siraj.