Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[tapandrun]

Since the speedometer came in , there has been only 3 bowler who are consistency over 150 kmph - Akthar, Lee and Tait.

There have been many who were able to achieve those speeds in patches and or during some season. Wood only started bowling into 150s this consistently after the comeback from injury.

 

The fastest over ever bowled (not 100%) would be the 1over bowled by Akthar where he touched 161 kmph and 1 over from  Lee where he also touched 160s in same 2003 WC. There could be 1 more from Tait.

 

Today if you really ask there are only 2 150+ bowlers - Wood and Nortje.

 

If we assume in a day of a test match an express bowler bowls 10 overs, its hard to think they are going to bowl all 60 balls over 150 kmph and have a day average speed of 150 kmph.

 

The term express is relatively new, commentators only started using when Akthar and Lee started bowling over 150 kmph consistently. 

 

Fast, express, fast medium are all relative terms - In the days of Lee and Akthar no body would be calling Rauf/Ferguson an express bowler, there were multiple bowlers who were able to slip a quicker one. But these days Wood, Nortje, Rauf and Furguson are the fastest.

 

 

In terms of Krishna - he didnt bowl the kind of bowling was required of him on a bowling friendly wkt. And he is no where express.

 

Had there been no speedometers, looking at current state and speeds of the bowlers, no one would believe that Lee, Akthar, Tait were able to bowl 160 kmph

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2024 by tapandrun

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

 

 

Since thats's your excuse about medium fast then do you know about scoop shot  or reverse sweep or powerplays?

 

 

You are making a conceptual error. Fast-medium, medium-fast etc. are classifications of bowlers. The classifications are relatively new and not the bowling speeds and styles themselves. 

 

While Scoops, ramp shots etc. are new shots invented later on. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

 

Yeah right ,you have filled up this thread with speeds ,and you say it's not about release speed lol

 

I did not say it's not about release speeds. 

 

I said classification of a pacer as Fast or Medium is not just about releaee speeds but about the style of bowling too.

 

Release speeds are pretty important for short or medium height pacers that we mostly have as they lack natural bounce. 

 

Release speeds are also very important on the slow Asian pitches which do not respond to pounding the deck hard and need skiddy quick.pacers preferably reversing the ball. 

 

 

4 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

 

If fast bowling is not about release speeds  then dont oppose guys who have low release speeds ,lets's see.

 

 

I don't necessarily oppose pacers with lower release speeds ( although higher release speeds are needed by shorter pacers and pacers bowling in Asia, as I explained above )

 

A good example was Siraj bowling 130 k to 138 k mostly in the 2nd test but I loved his bowling. 

 

I oppose pacers who don't have the Fast bowling style and are either innocuous or floaty and have to depend on swing to succeed. Incidentally, most such pacers have low release speeds too. 

[MediumPacer]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

You are making a conceptual error. Fast-medium, medium-fast etc. are classifications of bowlers. The classifications are relatively new and not the bowling speeds and styles themselves. 

 

While Scoops, ramp shots etc. are new shots invented later on. 

 

 

 

 

I did not say it's not about release speeds. 

 

I said classification of a pacer as Fast or Medium is not just about releaee speeds but about the style of bowling too.

 

Release speeds are pretty important for short or medium height pacers that we mostly have as they lack natural bounce. 

 

Release speeds are also very important on the slow Asian pitches which do not respond to pounding the deck hard and need skiddy quick.pacers preferably reversing the ball. 

 

 

 

I don't necessarily oppose pacers with lower release speeds ( although higher release speeds are needed by shorter pacers and pacers bowling in Asia, as I explained above )

 

A good example was Siraj bowling 130 k to 138 k mostly in the 2nd test but I loved his bowling. 

 

I oppose pacers who don't have the Fast bowling style and are either innocuous or floaty and have to depend on swing to succeed. Incidentally, most such pacers have low release speeds too. 

 

 

The terms medium fast ,fast medium existed before as well ,it's not something relatively new.In any case, they are all classifications ,some are of shots and others of bowlers . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And dont tell me it's not just about speeds when it's mostly what you post ,but seem to lack the honesty to own up .You hype guys based mostly on speeds,but then they cant generate that either. 

[singhvivek141]

15 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

 

The terms medium fast ,fast medium existed before as well ,it's not something relatively new.In any case, they are all classifications ,some are of shots and others of bowlers . 

 

And dont tell me it's not just about speeds when it's mostly what you post ,but seem to lack the honesty to own up .You hype guys based mostly on speeds,but then they cant generate that either. 

Speed is the first skill which we see immediately and that gets us excited about to start the talks, but it's not the only metrics which makes a bowler exciting. 

 

Consider it as a movie having superb trailer which can pull the crowd to theatres, but if the movie has a poor plot & story line, the crowd will avoid to the theatres.

 

KM Asif & Tushar Deshpande has clocked 140-148kph consistently on speed guns, they are way less hyped than Rajvardhan Hangargerkar who is slower in pace than the two.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

 

And dont tell me it's not just about speeds when it's mostly what you post ,but seem to lack the honesty to own up .You hype guys based mostly on speeds,but then they cant generate that either. 

 

My personal likes and what interests me ... and my assessment of who an effective international pacer is, may or may not be the same. I enjoy high speed bowling more than anything else. But would pick a Cummins / Rabada of 2024 bowling 135 k any day over a Mark Wood of 2024 bowling 145 k if I am picking a team. 

 

You take this forum and it's posts a bit too seriously. While most regulars on this thread are just having a fun time discussing and enjoying what their passion is, that is skilful quick bowling. 

 

[harpicP]

Bumrah 135 to 145

Cummins 132 to 144

Rabada 130 to 141

 

Vs

Mark wood 142 to 155

Nortje 140 to 155

Haris rauf 139 to 154

 

I know which batch I am backing.

 

The former group will always defecate the latter group. It's not just about speed. 

 

What I find more exciting to watch is definitely bowlers who hit the pitch hard and bowl hard length bowls at good speeds between 135 to 145 which is the sweet spot. 

 

But guys like akthar, bond were more exciting for me as they had skills along with pace. 

 

Sure Cummins bumrah and rabada are better but those guys like akthar and bond were just uber exciting to watch. 

 

They are just a tuss under as philander would say. Actually bond was truly special. I would put him on par with modern day greats. 

Edited January 9, 2024 by harpicP

[singhvivek141]

45 minutes ago, harpicP said:

Bumrah 135 to 145

Cummins 132 to 144

Rabada 130 to 141

 

Vs

Mark wood 142 to 155

Nortje 140 to 155

Haris rauf 139 to 154

 

I know which batch I am backing.

 

The former group will always defecate the latter group. It's not just about speed. 

 

What I find more exciting to watch is definitely bowlers who hit the pitch hard and bowl hard length bowls at good speeds between 135 to 145 which is the sweet spot. 

 

But guys like akthar, bond were more exciting for me as they had skills along with pace. 

 

Sure Cummins bumrah and rabada are better but those guys like akthar and bond were just uber exciting to watch. 

 

They are just a tuss under as philander would say. Actually bond was truly special. I would put him on par with modern day greats. 

Pace plus skill is a deadly combo which is more likely to succeed in any condition of the world.

Majority of the world class fast bowlers have operated in this 135-145kph category, very less outside of this bracket. Bumrah, Cummins, Hazelwood, Ambrose, Anderson, McGrath, Gillespie, Akram, Lilee, Holding, Ambrose, Waqar, Srinath, Rabada, Boult, Shami and many more are in this range.

 

Likes of Philander, Pollock, Walsh, Hadlee, Kapil, Southee are the only ones I can recall who were in 125-135 pace range and were successful. Out of which Pollock, Hadlee & Kapil were allrounders.

 

Similarly in 145+ pace range I think Bond, Marshall, Thomson, Akhtar, Starc, Donald are the only ones who were regarded as the successful fast bowlers. Johnson was another one who found his success when he started bowling at his brute speed albeit only for a brief period.

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Pace plus skill is a deadly combo which is more likely to succeed in any condition of the world.

Majority of the world class fast bowlers have operated in this 135-145kph category, very less outside of this bracket. Bumrah, Cummins, Hazelwood, Ambrose, Anderson, McGrath, Gillespie, Akram, Lilee, Holding, Ambrose, Waqar, Srinath, Rabada, Boult, Shami and many more are in this range.

 

Likes of Philander, Pollock, Walsh, Hadlee, Kapil, Southee are the only ones I can recall who were in 125-135 pace range and were successful. Out of which Pollock, Hadlee & Kapil were allrounders.

 

Similarly in 145+ pace range I think Bond, Marshall, Thomson, Akhtar, Starc, Donald are the only ones who were regarded as the successful fast bowlers. Johnson was another one who found his success when he started bowling at his brute speed albeit only for a brief period.

 

Yes, 135 k to 145 k with deck hitting ability and bounce, is the effective pace range which top pacers can sustain for long while maintaining accuracy, fitness and regular movement.

 

We want pacers to start off above this range as almost everyone loses 3 kph to 5kph speed after niggles and miles under their belt. 

[harpicP]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Pace plus skill is a deadly combo which is more likely to succeed in any condition of the world.

Majority of the world class fast bowlers have operated in this 135-145kph category, very less outside of this bracket. Bumrah, Cummins, Hazelwood, Ambrose, Anderson, McGrath, Gillespie, Akram, Lilee, Holding, Ambrose, Waqar, Srinath, Rabada, Boult, Shami and many more are in this range.

 

Likes of Philander, Pollock, Walsh, Hadlee, Kapil, Southee are the only ones I can recall who were in 125-135 pace range and were successful. Out of which Pollock, Hadlee & Kapil were allrounders.

 

Similarly in 145+ pace range I think Bond, Marshall, Thomson, Akhtar, Starc, Donald are the only ones who were regarded as the successful fast bowlers. Johnson was another one who found his success when he started bowling at his brute speed albeit only for a brief period.

Agreed with everything except donald being 145 plus part. He was 135 to 145 mostly. Some spells of 145 plus thats it. 

Wouldn't say starc was ever a top bowler in tests. Good support bowler that's it. 

 

His record is subpar in almost every place except Australia and nz I think. 

 

Great LOI player but LOI don't make you legends. Tests do.

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, harpicP said:

Agreed with everything except donald being 145 plus part. He was 135 to 145 mostly. Some spells of 145 plus thats it. 

Wouldn't say starc was ever a top bowler in tests. Good support bowler that's it. 

 

His record is subpar in almost every place except Australia and nz I think. 

 

Great LOI player but LOI don't make you legends. Tests do.

Bhai, South Africa se koi special dushmani hai kya teri? 

At one point of time, he was supposed to be faster than Waqar. Waise, his 150+ days were pre 96/97.  But he was fast till 94/95 atleast.

[harpicP]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Bhai, South Africa se koi special dushmani hai kya teri? 

At one point of time, he was supposed to be faster than Waqar. Waise, his 150+ days were pre 96/97.  But he was fast till 94/95 atleast.

From what I have seen, he appeared to be 135 to 145. I dint see much pre 97 98 of him. 

 

Still find it had to believe he is a 150 + bowler

 

Nantie Hayward was much quicker than him. There was another guy as well who dint play much. Those 2 were much quicker than prime donald. 

 

As for steyn. I am 100% sure he was never a 150 plus bowler. Maybe for 2 years or so max. Just like bumrah pre injury where he was bowling 140 to 150. 

 

He occasionally bowled spells of 145 to 150 but on average his speed was never in that range. It's 138 to 139 ans this was in 2008 to 2011 period. His peak. 

 

Morkel was quicker than steyn and I am damn sure he was. 

 

Morkel was 140 to 150 bowler. 

[MediumPacer]

5 hours ago, harpicP said:

Agreed with everything except donald being 145 plus part. He was 135 to 145 mostly. Some spells of 145 plus thats it. 

Wouldn't say starc was ever a top bowler in tests. Good support bowler that's it. 

 

His record is subpar in almost every place except Australia and nz I think. 

 

Great LOI player but LOI don't make you legends. Tests do.

dont know if it's quickened up or not but donald looks quick.

 

Lawry calls him a magnificent athlete ,express and 100mph,certainly looks quick here.

 

 

Nice runup .

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, harpicP said:

Agreed with everything except donald being 145 plus part. He was 135 to 145 mostly. Some spells of 145 plus thats it. 

Wouldn't say starc was ever a top bowler in tests. Good support bowler that's it. 

 

His record is subpar in almost every place except Australia and nz I think. 

 

Great LOI player but LOI don't make you legends. Tests do.

Allan Donald clocked 152.9 & 149 in 1998-1999. He was 33-34 years old by then.

From 1992-1995 he was lightening fast.

 

https://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS.html

 

There is one more article (though unconfirmed) on cricinfo which says Donald was 155kph in 2000.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/bowling-speeds-2-283875

Edited January 9, 2024 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

45 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

dont know if it's quickened up or not but donald looks quick.

 

Lawry calls him a magnificent athlete ,express and 100mph,certainly looks quick here.

 

 

Nice runup .

Donald was devastating in the 1996-97 tour of India to SA.

In the Durban he was literally breathing fire and first time in my life Sachin was literally looking helpless against any fast bowler.

[harpicP]

4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Allan Donald clocked 152.9 & 149 in 1998-1999. He was 33-34 years old by then.

From 1992-1995 he was lightening fast.

 

https://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS.html

 

There is one more article (though unconfirmed) on cricinfo which says Donald was 155kph in 2000.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/bowling-speeds-2-283875

True. Dint realize Donald started late

[harpicP]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Donald was devastating in the 1996-97 tour of India to SA.

In the Durban he was literally breathing fire and first time in my life Sachin was literally looking helpless against any fast bowler.

Yea looks scary good. Nice easy action. 

If he was 33 in 98 ish and bowled quick enough then yea 5 years prior to that, he could easily be 150. 

 

But still he never seemed quicker than Hayward to me

[harpicP]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Donald was devastating in the 1996-97 tour of India to SA.

In the Durban he was literally breathing fire and first time in my life Sachin was literally looking helpless against any fast bowler.

Who would like to see prime donald vs iyer, ks bharat lel

[Suhaan]

5 hours ago, harpicP said:

Yea looks scary good. Nice easy action. 

If he was 33 in 98 ish and bowled quick enough then yea 5 years prior to that, he could easily be 150. 

 

But still he never seemed quicker than Hayward to me

Yes he never looked quicker than claimed

96/97 was known for Kluseners pace,he did look genuinely quick

[harpicP]

18 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Yes he never looked quicker than claimed

96/97 was known for Kluseners pace,he did look genuinely quick

If srinath was 140 to 145 in odi back in 2003. Surely prime Sri in 93 to 97 would have been 145 plus too?

 

Pollock seems to rate him very highly. He reckons he is one of the fastest he has ever played.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, harpicP said:

If srinath was 140 to 145 in odi back in 2003. Surely prime Sri in 93 to 97 would have been 145 plus too?

 

Pollock seems to rate him very highly. He reckons he is one of the fastest he has ever played.

He was indeed..I read somewhere that he outpaced Klusener & Donald in 1999 WC and was second fastest after Shoaib.