Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Need4Speed]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Gurnoor was clocked at 135 k to 142 k / 143 k in the IPL.

I think have some batting potential too

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, Need4Speed said:

yes..but talent is subjective I think..

comparison between Mayank,Harshit and Umran..not thinking about Kartik as of now since  he is not even a first choice for Ranji team..Please feel free to add or correct..

 

                     Mayank                                            Harshit                                                               Umran

 

Height.         Decent can get good bounce        Tallest of All,extra bounce                               Short,lack of bounce

Pace             Express(?? now)                              Fast                                                                  Express

Accuracy      Good                                                Decent                                                              Average or lower

Movement    not as of now                                   Incoming delivery??                                        not as of now

Variations.    Slow balls,bouncers,bit of yorkers  slow balls,bouncers,occassional yorkers??  bouncers,occasional yorkers

Fitness          Recurring injuries as of now            okay as of now\average,need to lose some  recently seen some back to back 

                                                                                 weight imo                                                        issues                                                                                                                                     

Experience   not much,need more matches         played good number of domestic matches need more doemstic matches   

Batting          not much                                            looks like a lower order prospect                 may be?

 

Based on the above..Even though Express pace excites me..if we remove the express parameter..Harshit can be more reliable  and talented as of now..

The fitness and batting makes Harshit better choice..as compared to Mayank...

 

Even Think about whiteball..

if Bumrah Returns then who can be 3rd bowler after him and Arshdeep..Harshit..due to batting..else we may not have batting after 8..assuming Sunar is our spinner..or Pandya has to be 3rd pacer..???

                                    

 

 

 

Harshit should have been tried long time back, he could have easily replaced thakur. 

 

Malik should be tried/comeback in odi first, it looked his best format gives him time to settle down not underpressure of bowling 1 bad over and costing the match.

Mayank should be given some time now, read that he is not injured as per the reports.

 

Yadav's coach provides insight into his condition

Devendra Sharma, Yadav's personal coach, has given an update on the young player's condition.He said that while Yadav hasn't suffered a new injury, he has been advised against playing at the moment.The goal is to make him available for the England ODIs in January 2025.Sharma revealed this during an interview with Telegraph India.

 

https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/sports/latest-update-on-mayank-yadavs-injuries/story

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2024 by tapandrun

[Need4Speed]

20 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Harshit should have been tried long time back, he could have easily replaced thakur. 

 

Malik should be tried/comeback in odi first, it looked his best format gives him time to settle down not underpressure of bowling 1 bad over and coating the match.

Mayank should be given some time now, read that he is not injured as per the reports.

 

Yadav's coach provides insight into his condition

Devendra Sharma, Yadav's personal coach, has given an update on the young player's condition.He said that while Yadav hasn't suffered a new injury, he has been advised against playing at the moment.The goal is to make him available for the England ODIs in January 2025.Sharma revealed this during an interview with Telegraph India.

 

https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/sports/latest-update-on-mayank-yadavs-injuries/story

 

 

 

 

 

 

so its possible that's why he wasnt bowling 155kph..now he has played some T20s for India..to bowl similar pace like he was doing in previous rehab.. and was impressive in general..they want him to go through extensive rehab and be fully fit..

if that was the case..bit stupid..I think..why to risk him without full recovery..

[express bowling]

We need to find another Harshit Rana type of bowler.

 

21  to 23 years old

Tall, bouncy, hit the deck

Speed  135 k to 147 k

Skilful

Can bat and hit big 

 

150 k+ Express pacers keep getting injured everywhere in the world. 

 

But 140 k+ pacers can play regularly and are often more skilful as bowlers. And bouncy pacers add the extra element of hostility and can pick wickets without movement.

 

Sen and Prasidh are much older and can't bat .. but both are fast, tall and bouncy too. Sen is better temperamentally. 

 

But need another such young pacer. 

 

Edited October 28, 2024 by express bowling

[tapandrun]

27 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We need to find another Harshit Rana type of bowler.

 

21  to 23 years old

Tall, bouncy, hit the deck

Speed  135 k to 147 k

Skilful

Can bat and hit big 

 

150 k+ Express pacers keep getting injured everywhere in the world. 

 

But 140 k+ pacers can play regularly and are often more skilful as bowlers. And bouncy pacers add the extra element of hostility and can pick wickets without movement.

 

Sen and Prasidh are much older and can't bat .. but both are fast, tall and bouncy too. Sen is better temperamentally. 

 

But need another such young pacer. 

 

Hoping mayak  and malik are still 150+kmph , then Ind have 2 express bowlers and if Ind tm and selectors are smart they can make full use of them.

They do not need to play every single game or every single series , identify the series and games you would like them them play and tell them we need you fully fit and bwling full tilt in those games.

 

Try with T20Is for mayank and odis for Malik give them support of Bhumrah and Shami if possible. 

Add 2 more pacer around them (1 allrounder and 1 bowler) so if they go wrong their overs can be bowled by other and from there see their progress  and gradually increase their workload and role as they grow in confidence and strngth. This approach can be tried with any new 145+ kmph bowler.

 

Make a group of say 8 bowler --mayank,Malik, harshit, Simarjeet, rana, Gurnoor,etc... this way they can be fast-tracked and can be monitored for progress, ask them to target 4/5 fc match work with theor domestic teams.

 

This has happened more than once that Ind didnt have the bowling options going into big series, even for BD home series Ind had to call Bhumrah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2024 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

40 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

so its possible that's why he wasnt bowling 155kph..now he has played some T20s for India..to bowl similar pace like he was doing in previous rehab.. and was impressive in general..they want him to go through extensive rehab and be fully fit..

if that was the case..bit stupid..I think..why to risk him without full recovery..

There are contrasting report some quoting bcci source who "thinks" its back injury and other report quoting Mayank's coach who "says"  that mayank is "advised" not to play right now

[vishalvirsingh]

1 hour ago, Need4Speed said:

yes..but talent is subjective I think..

comparison between Mayank,Harshit and Umran..not thinking about Kartik as of now since  he is not even a first choice for Ranji team..Please feel free to add or correct..

 

                     Mayank                                            Harshit                                                               Umran

 

Height.         Decent can get good bounce        Tallest of All,extra bounce                               Short,lack of bounce

Pace             Express(?? now)                              Fast                                                                  Express

Accuracy      Good                                                Decent                                                              Average or lower

Movement    not as of now                                   Incoming delivery??                                        not as of now

Variations.    Slow balls,bouncers,bit of yorkers  slow balls,bouncers,occassional yorkers??  bouncers,occasional yorkers

Fitness          Recurring injuries as of now            okay as of now\average,need to lose some  recently seen some back to back 

                                                                                 weight imo                                                        issues                                                                                                                                     

Experience   not much,need more matches         played good number of domestic matches need more doemstic matches   

Batting          not much                                            looks like a lower order prospect                 may be?

 

Based on the above..Even though Express pace excites me..if we remove the express parameter..Harshit can be more reliable  and talented as of now..

The fitness and batting makes Harshit better choice..as compared to Mayank...

 

Even Think about whiteball..

if Bumrah Returns then who can be 3rd bowler after him and Arshdeep..Harshit..due to batting..else we may not have batting after 8..assuming Sundar is our spinner..or Pandya has to be 3rd pacer..???

                                    

 

 

 

i beg to differ- Mayank is very rare, better than UMraan, more talented than ZAK and Ashish nehra and Umesh Yadav. Seems very talented. his bowling action is very different - one can make out he is super fast.

Harshit may have a career for INDIA but he wont be remembered much. if Mayank gets to play for INDIA ( subject to him becoming fit) , he will be remembered even if he plays 5 tests. he is express /super fast, accurate. 

an optimist in me thinks that he is young , his body will become stronger and he will have a long career for india

the pessimist in me says seems he is too delicate for an International CAREER, as soon as he stretches , he gets hurt. even in t20's he played he survived all 3 t20's because he did not stretch at all- was 5k less than his fastest. i guess he touched 150.5 k only.

[tapandrun]

Any1 watched Bhr vs krnt match -- Sakib was playing took 2 wkts but was expensive per the scorecards.Is he really that fast as kkr sm was hyping him to be??

Mean they already have rana and starc to compare his pace with

Edited October 28, 2024 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

On 10/23/2024 at 2:57 AM, express bowling said:

 

 

List of 140 k+ Indian pacers in October 2024  [ Fastest to slowest ]

 

Mayank

Umran

Tyagi

Sen

Bumrah 

Harshit

Prasidh 

Ashok Sharma 

Simarjeet 

Shami

 

Akashdeep 

Gurnoor

Yudhvir

Siraj

Khaleel

 

[ Names after gap have a low% of 140 k+ balls ]

These should be the bowlers that tm and selectors should work on to get then into Ind team

 

Coregoup -

Bhumrah, Shami, Siraj, Akash deep, Singh, Rana, Umran, Mayank, Simarjeet, Tyagi (rated highly here by some, still to show case a good season in any tournament), Himanshu (need to check his pace),Sen

 

Out side core group-

Mukesh kumar, Mukesh Choudhary, Dayal, Avesh, Khaleel, Arora, Mohsin, Arsad, Yudhvir, Sakib (KKr camp is excited about him at least their SM handles) and then there could be people like Avinash Singh (RCB pick think he was not in IPL auctions last time due to injury),Kaverappa, Pradish 

 

Edited October 28, 2024 by tapandrun

[Need4Speed]

2 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

i beg to differ- Mayank is very rare, better than UMraan, more talented than ZAK and Ashish nehra and Umesh Yadav. Seems very talented. his bowling action is very different - one can make out he is super fast.

Harshit may have a career for INDIA but he wont be remembered much. if Mayank gets to play for INDIA ( subject to him becoming fit) , he will be remembered even if he plays 5 tests. he is express /super fast, accurate. 

an optimist in me thinks that he is young , his body will become stronger and he will have a long career for india

the pessimist in me says seems he is too delicate for an International CAREER, as soon as he stretches , he gets hurt. even in t20's he played he survived all 3 t20's because he did not stretch at all- was 5k less than his fastest. i guess he touched 150.5 k only.

I understand your pov and express pace is exciting to see..I love that too but..I also would like to count it towards serving Indian cricket..if he gets remembered only for himself..his promise will be unfulfilled..I want him to feature in memorable Indian series/tournament wins and not just 1 or 2 matches here and there..

Needless to say it also affects team’s strategy and planning..if there is a lack of continuity and reliability..

 

 

 

[Need4Speed]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Any1 watched Bhr vs krnt match -- Sakib was playing took 2 wkts but was expensive per the scorecards.Is he really that fast as kkr sm was hyping him to be??

Mean they already have rana and starc to compare his pace with

Not this match but I watched KKR internal practice matches..avlbl in youtube..he definitely had the pace..bouncers..yorkers..which troubled Andre Russel..Rinku..more than few times and got their wkts too..

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Any1 watched Bhr vs krnt match -- Sakib was playing took 2 wkts but was expensive per the scorecards.Is he really that fast as kkr sm was hyping him to be??

Mean they already have rana and starc to compare his pace with

He was bowling 142-143 at  17

[singhvivek141]

48 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He was bowling 142-143 at  17

Our younger quicks have shown tendency to slow down after "too much coaching"

Mavi was hitting 146-147 at age of 19, Nagarkoti clocked 149 at age of 18, Akash Singh was clocking 140, heck even the Uber trundler Undakut has clocked 140 during his U19 days.

 

During teenage, the bowlers has the madness and that passion to bowl fast as possible. Once they become adult, then too many "advices" starts flowing from all sides.

Edited October 29, 2024 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, tapandrun said:

These should be the bowlers that tm and selectors should work on to get then into Ind team

 

Coregoup -

Bhumrah, Shami, Siraj, Akash deep, Singh, Rana, Umran, Mayank, Simarjeet, Tyagi (rated highly here by some, still to show case a good season in any tournament), Himanshu (need to check his pace),Sen

 

Out side core group-

Mukesh kumar, Mukesh Choudhary, Dayal, Avesh, Khaleel, Arora, Mohsin, Arsad, Yudhvir, Sakib (KKr camp is excited about him at least their SM handles) and then there could be people like Avinash Singh (RCB pick think he was not in IPL auctions last time due to injury),Kaverappa, Pradish 

 

Himanshu is 132-142 kph...but he can up his pace to 135-145 kph easily. He looks a bit overweight at the moment. 

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, tapandrun said:

These should be the bowlers that tm and selectors should work on to get then into Ind team

 

Coregoup -

Bhumrah, Shami, Siraj, Akash deep, Singh, Rana, Umran, Mayank, Simarjeet, Tyagi (rated highly here by some, still to show case a good season in any tournament), Himanshu (need to check his pace),Sen

 

Out side core group-

Mukesh kumar, Mukesh Choudhary, Dayal, Avesh, Khaleel, Arora, Mohsin, Arsad, Yudhvir, Sakib (KKr camp is excited about him at least their SM handles) and then there could be people like Avinash Singh (RCB pick think he was not in IPL auctions last time due to injury),Kaverappa, Pradish 

 

Kartik had picked 9 wickets in 5 games at 20 with sr of 21 in vijay hazare trophy last year.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Himanshu is 132-142 kph...but he can up his pace to 135-145 kph easily. He looks a bit overweight at the moment. 

 

Did he clock these speeds in Duleep ?

[singhvivek141]

22 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Did he clock these speeds in Duleep ?

In Duleep he was oscillating 130-136, quickest I saw was around 138, but I read somewhere he clocked 140 few balls.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Kartik had picked 9 wickets in 5 games at 20 with sr of 21 in vijay hazare trophy last year.

And of those 5 games..one or two were rain affected or bowled only 2 or 3 overs.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Kartik had picked 9 wickets in 5 games at 20 with sr of 21 in vijay hazare trophy last year.

 

When is Kuldeep Sen expected to play Ranji Trophy ?

[Lone Wolf]

Himanshu has some hit the deck skills but disappointed with his overall pace.  He could have been a backup option to Harshit and selectors definately had an eye on him.

 

Now deal with Vyashak and Avesh types.