Fontaine Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Exactly. We have always won when we were aggressive. 2007 series. Ishant and Jadeja get a lot of stick. But last match both played aggressively and produced results. I have no doubt a lot of defensive approaches of players like Ashwin iand Ishant is entirely due to Dhoni. And then when things do not work out they are the first ones to be blamed That's great. But how does that have anything to do with guys like Shami not being able to bowl even basic consistent line and lengths with the new ball when we do attack and have slips. What does that have anything to do with batsmen getting in, making a start and then throwing it away with poor shot selection or chasing one outside of off stump. What does that have anything to do with retarded slip catching?
ThePhenomenal1 Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 All those players whom you are hailing as saviours right now , you will want them sacked after 3-4 failures and will be calling them useless, piece of sh*t, pathetic. That precisely has been the intent of digging out those posts and show you what you have said during our last test series, not in 2011 or 2012. And all that talk of context is a mere excuse. You (and a few others on this forum) are here just for one thing, that is to abuse the players, the targets keeps changing from time to time. I will keep pointing out those hypocrisies till the time I am around. Who have i hailed as a saviour? I see them as pieces to a puzzle in winning a freaking test match. I dont want kohli sacked yet he's failed since 1st trent bridge innings. I back those that have performed and still show intent and promise. I dont back those that continue to lose matches for india and walk around like they deserve a place. Rohit is useless, a piece of sh*t and pathetic! Its the freaking truth. But you carry on digging and praising him for his tailunt :hysterical: I never praised rohit in tests. That was in t20s, and i must have mistakenly included him as a player for all formats. He his a t20 wonder and thats it. I wont call dhawan or anyone else who has performed previously and worked hard, useless or whatever. Only those that have overstayed their welcome and are cancers to the team. I call it how i see it, say it how it is But you can carry on praising instead of realising the truth. Remain ignorant! Why would I abuse the players for my own pleasure? I have only made comments on those who deserve it, i.e. ishant (perhaps turned a corner and now working hard to keep it up), rohit, dhoni, yuvraj. When a player is out of form and hurting the team, i.e. dhawan and shami, i haven't call them hacks or useless. Yes i have got angry but as a passionate fan thats expected! I still back them but suggest replacements SO THAT THE TEAM BENEFITS. :two_thumbs_up: So keep pointing out "hypocrisies" while you probably remain silent to whats going on out there - test losses and defensive captaincy! :hysterical:
ThePhenomenal1 Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 That's great. But how does that have anything to do with guys like Shami not being able to bowl even basic consistent line and lengths with the new ball when we do attack and have slips. What does that have anything to do with batsmen getting in, making a start and then throwing it away with poor shot selection or chasing one outside of off stump. What does that have anything to do with retarded slip catching? As a captain, you could force the bowler to bowl offstump line by not protecting the legside. Make the bowler realise it instead of cushioning it. But shami should not have played, he has been the weak link in the pacers. Just needs time out to get better and fitter. Practice makes perfect. Poor shot selection and throwing it away isnt on dhoni. Its on the players, you are right. But the captain himself hardly stands up when the team needs it. He could have lasted 100+ balls but gave in. He did so well previous innings in resisting that offstump shot. Slip catching - captain isnt tough enough. They just shrug it off, laugh, they never move forward when catches fall short. They never change. Thats on the captain
Fontaine Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 As a captain, you could force the bowler to bowl offstump line by not protecting the legside. Make the bowler realise it instead of cushioning it. But shami should not have played, he has been the weak link in the pacers. Just needs time out to get better and fitter. Practice makes perfect. Yes, I take your point but even with the new ball with slips and hardly any legside protection Shami kept drifting to middle and leg. I think the only reason Shami played here even though the pitch was more ideally suited to taller bowlers was because of Ishant's injury. Going with two completely inexperienced test bowlers was a big risk but now our hand may be forced. But the captain himself hardly stands up when the team needs it. He could have lasted 100+ balls but gave in. He did so well previous innings in resisting that offstump shot. I agree completely. Dhoni's batting has been very ordinary to poor. He's tried to adjust by being more aggressive at time and batting outside the crease but he's not a reliable lower order batsmen. Slip catching - captain isnt tough enough. They just shrug it off, laugh, they never move forward when catches fall short. They never change. Thats on the captain There are always going to be edges that fall short, it's just the way some batsmen play with softer hands. But yes, in light of the fact that no one in England's top 3 comes out and flashes hard at the ball our slips should move up more.
Straight Drive Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 can play both Ashwin and Jaddu there then. We need to be prepared with enough spin bowling option, especially if we get to bowl last i.e. on day 4 and day 5. It should not happen that we get a wicket like here where rough was apparently available and we had to bowl Shikhar and Rohit on it. They cannot pitch the ball on rough as consistently as a regular spinner can as they hardly bowl and do not have as much control as a specialist spinner has. With all due credit to Moeen for his bagful of wickets in this test series, England too are missing a trick by playing non specialist spinner. Things change when opponents start to read part time spinners. Some day England will realize they need a specialist spinner like Swann or Monty unless Moeen improves a lot or keeps bowling like this. He is far away from a specialist spinner. It's like Bhuv making 3*50's in 4 innings, but would it be wise to rely on Bhuv for runs. England would be better that they rethink their specialist spinners slot over a longer period of time rather than short term strategies.
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Dhoni a shoddy keeper, shoddy captan, to go with stubborn attitude.
FreakazoiD Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 What does that have anything to do with retarded slip catching? Yes our slip catching was poor, but you can't blame such a massive defeat on one dropped catch. Our bowlers simply did not create enough chances on day 1. We had several umpiring decisions going our way right through the game - Ballance given out incorrectly twice, Rahane given not out in the first innings after nicking one and then Dhawan was plumb in the second. But England's batsmen took their chances and scored big whereas Indians just couldn't because their bowlers kept coming at us all the time with no respite. Our bowling on day 1 was just not up to test standard, and even Pankaj after inducing that one edge could not keep up the pressure. Yes, our catching was poor but I would put the blame for this humiliating defeat squarely on the bowlers and on Dhoni for being too defensive from the beginning.
sourab10forever Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Gambhir Vijay Pujara Kohli Rahane Dhoni Ashwin BK Ishant Aaron Pankaj
brendan07 Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Rain will be a factor in this test....and hopefully Jimmy is suspended lol
Fontaine Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Yes our slip catching was poor' date=' but you can't blame such a massive defeat on one dropped catch. Our bowlers simply did not create enough chances on day 1. We had several umpiring decisions going our way right through the game - Ballance given out incorrectly twice, Rahane given not out in the first innings after nicking one and then Dhawan was plumb in the second. But England's batsmen took their chances and scored big whereas Indians just couldn't because their bowlers kept coming at us all the time with no respite. Our bowling on day 1 was just not up to test standard, and even Pankaj after inducing that one edge could not keep up the pressure. Yes, our catching was poor but I would put the blame for this humiliating defeat squarely on the bowlers and on Dhoni for being too defensive from the beginning.[/quote'] There's a big difference between blame and responsibility. Yes Dhoni is responsible and should be held accountable as captain. But to blame him for shoddy catching, poor bowling at times, and batsmen who all get a start but don't convert is just stupid.
CSK Fan Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 There's a big difference between blame and responsibility. Yes Dhoni is responsible and should be held accountable as captain. But to blame him for shoddy catching, poor bowling at times, and batsmen who all get a start but don't convert is just stupid. It all stems from the top. When Dhoni took charge as T20 captain, overnight the team changed 180 degrees. Batting, bowling and fielding had a new energy. Every expert pointed this out. Now this decline is a symptom of a bigger rot, no energy, no positivity and confused players. It again boils from the top and lack of a leader who can energize or motivate his own team members
Fontaine Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 It all stems from the top. When Dhoni took charge as T20 captain' date=' overnight the team changed 180 degrees. Batting, bowling and fielding had a new energy. Every expert pointed this out. Now this decline is a symptom of a bigger rot, no energy, no positivity and confused players. It again boils from the top and lack of a leader who can energize or motivate his own team members[/quote'] And that's fair enough. The captain and senior players are responsible for the team's attitude and since we're lacking senior players the focus is on Dhoni to provide leadership. I think he's done that very well off the pitch for example when handling the Jadeja/Anderson issue and backing his player but there is definitely is a lack of focus and intensity when we're losing sessions.
Fontaine Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 It all stems from the top. When Dhoni took charge as T20 captain' date=' overnight the team changed 180 degrees. Batting, bowling and fielding had a new energy. Every expert pointed this out. Now this decline is a symptom of a bigger rot, no energy, no positivity and confused players. It again boils from the top and lack of a leader who can energize or motivate his own team members[/quote'] Now let me ask you a question. Before the start of the series I said regardless of who the captain is, the biggest problem the team has going abroad is the lack of quality pace bowlers. Now with Ishant out injured we're seeing that we simply don't have the quality or quantity of bowlers that can take 20 wickets. Do you still think that I'm wrong about this?
Lord Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Now let me ask you a question. Before the start of the series I said regardless of who the captain is, the biggest problem the team has going abroad is the lack of quality pace bowlers. Now with Ishant out injured we're seeing that we simply don't have the quality or quantity of bowlers that can take 20 wickets. Do you still think that I'm wrong about this? Thats expected when you don't select a guy like Yadav
SLICKR392 Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Not a big fan predicting probable XIs as it will be washed down the drain by Dhoni's 'We are going in with the same side' Gambhir Vijay Pujara Rahane Kohli Ashwin Dhoni/Ojha Bhuvi Aaron Pankaj Shami/Pandey
Cricket_Hacker Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Ohja for dhawan Aaron for shami Ashwin for rohit
Yoda-esque Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 There's only one scenario that possibly supports an Indian win : Bat first and hope that our batsmen click..It's been the mantra for most overseas Indian wins.
Insidious Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 This is laughable- It is the same dhoni who played with 5 bowlers through out Champions Trophy, where you don't always need to take 10 wickets to win but somehow feels 4 bowlers are enough for test matches and that too in such a long test match series where it is compulsory to take 20 wickets of the opposition to win a match. That is the difference between dhoni as an odi captain and dhoni in test!
kubrickian Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Bhuvi did superbly in the first two tests but get the impression that England batsmen have started to get his measure. He looked very harmless against their batsmen in 3rd test as did Pankaj and Shami. Ishant is also ruled out of fourth test. Some drastic measures are needed. Take some risks like picking Ashwin over Jaddu, Varun Aaron instead of Rohit and play 3 other seamers - B Kumar, Pankaj, Shami/Pandey. Back your batsmen to put runs on the board. At least if we lose, it wouldn't be for a lack of trying something instead of going on the defensive.
kubrickian Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Gambhir is even more of a poker than Dhawan. Batsmen who poke outside off stump have no chance of surviving in England.
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