Dhoni's away batting average in the last 3 years

[velu]

You know the same thing about basic psychology as you do about posting Even defending, hating, anything, people have the courtesy to make their points instead of smart one liners each and every time. Even the worst lover or hater, if he is eloquent and puts his point properly can be a very good addition to a forum as a forum needs both kinds of debate. However, what is sure to kill a forum is trolling posts after trolling posts, never sticking to the topic at hand, always making only one liners and smiley face and wanting to only rile up other posters and actually considering it a victory when that is achieved This is nothing to do with moderation or getting banned at all, this forum is very lenient compared to others. But intentionally baiting others (which you proudly proclaim - "it is easy to troll so and so fans, etc"), is a completely bannable offense on most forums

i can say that when you were defending you were not doing it properly.. can you disagree with me that, when you were defending sachin in multiple forums you were asked to cut short , or many told they hate sachin because of the guys like you.. even in ICF i had seen a poster quoting you that he posts bad about sachin bcz of you .. i do fear some one will ban me for defending dhoni

[vijay50]

Statistically no matter how you put it, Dhoni will turn out to be one of the top WK batsmen in the world. If I am not wrong, Sanga when was a WK batsman averaged 26 outside SC. See these are stats. Matt Prior averages around 39-40 odd while Dhoni averages 38 odd. Anyone who has seen them play would say Matt Prior is ATLEAST TWICE the test batsman. Younis Khan averages 31 in ODIS (7000 runs, 75 SR) and Jayawardene averages 32 (11K runs 78 SR). Younis Khan is considered as one of the most hopeless ODI batsman by Pak fans leave alone the rest of the world while Jaya is considered one of the best in the world in ODIS (not ATG but still a very very good batsman). You see, this is the issue with stats. They don't present context. They don't present MATCH DEFINING innings. They don't present the fight a player gives. For example, Zaheer Khan's best Test knock was 0 (20 odd balls) in the third test 2001 against Aus which enabled us to win the match and a historic series. Stats would say it was a useless knock (he even got out) but the value of it for those who saw it would be more than even a 100 on a flat track. In that knock, he played out the balls allowed batsman on the other end to score. So point is that if you want to analyze stuff, the best way to do it is by stats + visual appearance. And in that aspect, Dhoni flops and flops big time. When you see Dhoni play, you would know that if the going gets tough, he is HARDLY going to step up. He may have some good knocks but many a times when you need him to stay and play a gritty knock in a tough situation, he would be the first one to get out.

I see the context, but 10 years on nobody remembers these context, unless it is critically defining as Laxman's 281 or so. I definitely wont remember Zaheers 0, but I can point Dhonis 36 average and Show he is better than Kamran Akmal, eventhough Akmal had scored centuries against India. So can you say Akmal is better.15 years on nobody remembers Akmals centuries , but his numbers.For great players it might be different. But for the rest only numbers matter.

[maniac]

]i can say that when you were defending you were not doing it properly.. can you disagree with me that, when you were defending sachin in multiple forums you were asked to cut short , or many told they hate sachin because of the guys like you.. even in ICF i had seen a poster quoting you that he posts bad about sachin bcz of you .. i do fear some one will ban me for defending dhoni

You tend to ignore the more sensible points and pick on something totally irelevant :icflove: Proud of you :two_thumbs_up:

[velu]

WRT Kohli' date=' we are not talking about just one series, are we? Kohli did ok in SA and NZ[/quote'] dhoni also did ok for a number 7 batsmen .. ranks #1 among all the wicket keeper batsmen .. in addition he is taking care of captaincy too there are batsmen scuked more than dhoni .. but why do dhoni always gets the stick ?? :hmmm:

[sensible-indian]

I see the context, but 10 years on nobody remembers these context, unless it is critically defining as Laxman's 281 or so. I definitely wont remember Zaheers 0, but I can point Dhonis 36 average and Show he is better than Kamran Akmal, eventhough Akmal had scored centuries against India. So can you say Akmal is better.15 years on nobody remembers Akmals centuries , but his numbers.For great players it might be different. But for the rest only numbers matter.

The Zaheer Khan example was an extreme case I used to make a point. Nobody would remember that knock. But if Zaheer time and again played such knocks, he would be remembered as a guy who helped India win. That's the point. Prior will be remembered as a very good WK batsman who helped England win/draw many games. Anderson will be remembered as a GREAT GREAT bowler even if he won't be regarded as an ATG. Just an eg - He will be remembered by all as being far better than Siddle even if the latter had a better average. Dhoni will be remembered for a lot of things but when it comes to test batting, he won't be remembered for it. Context works with enough sample size.

[sensible-indian]

Of course, none of the context would be remembered once the current generation passes away. But that doesn't mean people who perform for the team in crunch situations are any less than those who are just statistically good. Whether an act is appreciated or not does not in any way diminish its value.

[maniac]

Kamran akmal has an average of 30 with 6 100's and over 200 dismissals which means statistically he will be in the Top 10 WK-Batsmen of all time but we all know how useful he is. Stop bringing up Dhoni's stats as I said his keeping has cost us a lot of games overseas and he is not good enough to solely be part of the test side as a batsman. In ODI's hell yes because he is one of the best ODI batsman and he can be a decent keeper.

[FischerTal]

Statistically no matter how you put it, Dhoni will turn out to be one of the top WK batsmen in the world. If I am not wrong, Sanga when was a WK batsman averaged 26 outside SC. See these are stats. Matt Prior averages around 39-40 odd while Dhoni averages 38 odd. Anyone who has seen them play would say Matt Prior is ATLEAST TWICE the test batsman. Younis Khan averages 31 in ODIS (7000 runs, 75 SR) and Jayawardene averages 32 (11K runs 78 SR). Younis Khan is considered as one of the most hopeless ODI batsman by Pak fans leave alone the rest of the world while Jaya is considered one of the best in the world in ODIS (not ATG but still a very very good batsman). You see, this is the issue with stats. They don't present context. They don't present MATCH DEFINING innings. They don't present the fight a player gives. For example, Zaheer Khan's best Test knock was 0 (20 odd balls) in the third test 2001 against Aus which enabled us to win the match and a historic series. Stats would say it was a useless knock (he even got out) but the value of it for those who saw it would be more than even a 100 on a flat track. In that knock, he played out the balls allowed batsman on the other end to score. So point is that if you want to analyze stuff, the best way to do it is by stats + visual appearance. And in that aspect, Dhoni flops and flops big time. When you see Dhoni play, you would know that if the going gets tough, he is HARDLY going to step up. He may have some good knocks but many a times when you need him to stay and play a gritty knock in a tough situation, he would be the first one to get out.

welcome to ICF. have seen your posts on another forum :--D

[vijay50]

Kamran akmal has an average of 30 with 6 100's and over 200 dismissals which means statistically he will be in the Top 10 WK-Batsmen of all time but we all know how useful he is. Stop bringing up Dhoni's stats as I said his keeping has cost us a lot of games overseas and he is not good enough to solely be part of the test side as a batsman. In ODI's hell yes because he is one of the best ODI batsman and he can be a decent keeper.

Kamran's average outside asia must be <20 ( I didnt look at stats). He was shoddy keeper even in Asia. So no point talking about him.His inflated average of 30 is due to India bashing. Dhonis captaincy is poor in tests and specifically this series he has been poor keepingwise.But that doesnt warrant him from being removed as player in tests.Tell me how many wicket keeper had made 200 in tests at their home. I recall Kuruppu , Gilchrist , Dhoni, McCullum and may be Sangakkara.

[jf1gp_1]

Dhoni the test player (putting aside captaincy issues) is a fine wicketkeeper in all formats. Yes he has had his oops moment but i see absolutely no issues as far as his keeping goes. No point talking about his limited over batting cause he is a match winner doubt even his strongest critics on this forum want anyone to touch him as far as ODIs go. Test cricket he has his limitation outside subcontinent but again i see no problem with him batting at 7 considering he is our keeper. Kartik is a better batsman but Dhoni is a better keeper, whatever limited i have seen of saha i cant see how anyone would want saha over dhoni, ojha also isnt as good a keeper as dhoni. i have sky high hopes from samson, i think he will be our next virat but again samson as a keeper needs to improve; given he is just 19 couple of years he will be ready to take over from Dhoni.

[Raghav_12]

dhoni also did ok for a number 7 batsmen .. ranks #1 among all the wicket keeper batsmen .. in addition he is taking care of captaincy too there are batsmen scuked more than dhoni .. but why do dhoni always gets the stick ?? :hmmm:

I feel captaincy would be better off without such care. :giggle:

[sensible-indian]

welcome to ICF. have seen your posts on another forum :--D

Thanks bud.

[Texy]

Thanks bud.

How abt doing an intro in the chit chat section "bud?"

[sensible-indian]

How abt doing an intro in the chit chat section "bud?"

Yeah I will see, bud. :) To be honest, not very keen about it (as of now).

[jusarrived]

Yes. Even this 25 is with some of the meaningless fifties like in Birmingham test last English tour. http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/engine/match/474474.html

Tendulkar fan complaining about meaningless runs ?:hysterical:

[Raghav_12]

Tendulkar fan complaining about meaningless runs ?:hysterical:

Thanks fr your this meaningful and insight-ful post. It adds so much to the discussion. :hatsoff:

[CSK Fan]

Tendulkar fan complaining about meaningless runs ?:hysterical:

Didn't YOU cry and complain using the same term when Sachin was there and now he is gone? Why not follow the same logic for Dhoni instead of being a hypocrite? Or is meaningless runs only to be used to crucify one single player you have always disliked?

[CSK Fan]

Thanks bud.

Wait, aren't you Rett? I was pretty sure Sensible_indian_fan was always Rett, some of his initial stats post were the same?

[jusarrived]

Thanks fr your this meaningful and insight-ful post. It adds so much to the discussion. :hatsoff:

Ohhh you dint understand? Where di you get such high standards from to call those two 50s as meaningless ? Surely not from following Tendulkar's career , cos by your own very high standards i doubt even one of his overseas knocks would qualify as meaningful?

[jusarrived]

Didn't YOU cry and complain using the same term when Sachin was there and now he is gone? Why not follow the same logic for Dhoni instead of being a hypocrite? Or is meaningless runs only to be used to crucify one single player you have always disliked?

I have never called Dhoni a test match winner . Guess who's the hypocrite here