Karn Sharma

[bharat297]

You are comparing Perth to Adelaide. At Perth' date=' you can get away with bad balls, but at Adelaide, there is no margin for error. It has been a graveyard for bowlers historically no matter how good a bowler you are. Steyn got 1 wicket last time he bowled first here.[/quote'] You completely missed my point. My point was regarding how building up pressure in T20 vs building up pressure in Tests. Your response was ... Dale Steyn bowled badly here so everything is ok. Btw ... Adelaide is a batting paradise but this is how Australia have bowled in Adelaide since 2012. vs. India 2012 - 272, 271 vs. RSA 2012 - 388, 8/248 vs. Eng 2013 - 172, 312

[Lord]

Agree. But that is why it is important to choose the correct type of player in the first place.... so that he can be stuck with for a long time. Spinner with spin and accuracy Spinner with flipper and high accuracy Pacer with pace and decent accuracy Pacer with movement and accuracy Batsman with good technique and decent strokeplay Batsmen with tremendous strokeplay. Etc, etc.

Yes,but you can only chose from what you've got.Ashwin might not be accurate overseas but he does get spin and bounce.Karn was chosen coz leggies do well in Aus and Mishra has failed previously,though I'd have gone for him Its what you want from a spinner in these conditions in the meanwhile.Personally I'd use a spinner defensively as a 5th bowler so I'll chose one which can keep the runs down and build pressure for other quicks to exploit. If that is not done then a spinner in 4 bowler attack has to be attacking and leggie is best option

[rkt.india]

You completely missed my point. My point was regarding how building up pressure in T20 vs building up pressure in Tests. Your response was ... Dale Steyn bowled badly here so everything is ok. Btw ... Adelaide is a batting paradise but this is how Australia have bowled in Adelaide since 2012. vs. India 2012 - 272, 271 vs. RSA 2012 - 388, 8/248 vs. Eng 2013 - 172, 312

Styen didnt get many does not mean, he bowled badly. It is not like that. You fight conditions more than the team you are playing. Cricket is a highly condition dependent sport. Conditions in BD ODI series made Binny, Hussein made look like great bowlers which they are not. Other than that, genuine pace bowlers like Aaron are not going to be highly accurate or will be bowling with great accuracy. They might improve but with time will learn. They will have some inconsistencies. Regarding those stats, India were poor throughout 2012, so, dont bring that. We scored 500 plus in 2003 and 2008. Aus had scored 550 plus in 2012 too and SA scored 388 in reply chasing under pressure which is a good score and batted 148 overs to draw the match in 4th innings which tells you how flat it was. Regarding last year, it was Mitch how blew England away. They were just nowhere in the whole series. They had mentally lost it. Pitch had nothing to do with it.

[express bowling]

My point was regarding how building up pressure in T20 vs building up pressure in Tests.

This is one area that is worrying me. The T20 era Indian cricketers don't have the mindset to mentally prepare for tests or the patience to execute longer term plans or apply themselves for a 4 or 5 test series. Whether batsmen or bowler. This aspect won't come back in a hurry. Maybe some other factors would be required if this is to be overcome.

[bharat297]

India were poor throughout 2012' date=' so, dont bring that. We scored 500 plus in 2003 and 2008. Aus had scored 550 plus in 2012 too and SA scored 388 in reply chasing under pressure which is a good score and batted 148 overs to draw the match in 4th innings which tells you how flat it was. Regarding last year, it was Mitch how blew England away. They were just nowhere in the whole series. They had mentally lost it. Pitch had nothing to do with it.[/quote'] Do you hear yourself? This is why India will never be a dominant Test side. We constantly make excuses. The pitch is flat, but the last six times that Australia bowled here, they managed to keep sides to either a low score or avoid a blowout score. The year before that England bowled well and kept Australia to 245 and 304. That's the last 8 Test innings on this pitch. Instead of looking at that and going right ... Ok this is what our bowlers need to take out of that and learn from, we make excuses. Oh that series we were poor so Australia's bowling doesn't count (as if they are somehow mutually exclusive) ... that series was Mitchell Johnson (because he's not a bowler)... Australia play badly in India too ... Even Dale Steyn struggles here ... We batted well 11 years ago here! What kind of crap is that? We should set high standards for ourselves. If teams can bowl well here in the last 4 years, then we should too. It's not like we were bowling good balls and getting smashed. We were bowling rubbish balls and getting smashed.

[rkt.india]

What kind of crap is that? We should set high standards for ourselves. If teams can bowl well here in the last 4 years, then we should too. It's not like we were bowling good balls and getting smashed. We were bowling rubbish balls and getting smashed.

Because good balls were getting smashed too. When you are hit on the up, it means those were good bowls. Other than that, every series is different. Teams are different. 2010 Aussie team was going through a bad form especially in batting. They lost the Ashes. They had the same bowlers who they have now. What changed, their batting is doing well now.

[bharat297]

Because good balls were getting smashed too. When you are hit on the up' date=' it means those were good bowls.[/quote'] When you bowl 1 good ball every six balls it might get smashed. That's why you have to bowl six good balls, and constantly build up pressure. What do you think Test cricket is? You bowl a couple of good balls and if they get hit, you just throw your hands up in the air and yell "Flat wicket!" and wait for the opposition to declare?

[-Robin-]

Do you hear yourself? This is why India will never be a dominant Test side. We constantly make excuses. The pitch is flat, but the last six times that Australia bowled here, they managed to keep sides to either a low score or avoid a blowout score. The year before that England bowled well and kept Australia to 245 and 304. That's the last 8 Test innings on this pitch. Instead of looking at that and going right ... Ok this is what our bowlers need to take out of that and learn from, we make excuses. Oh that series we were poor so Australia's bowling doesn't count (as if they are somehow mutually exclusive) ... that series was Mitchell Johnson (because he's not a bowler)... Australia play badly in India too ... Even Dale Steyn struggles here ... We batted well 11 years ago here! What kind of crap is that? We should set high standards for ourselves. If teams can bowl well here in the last 4 years, then we should too. It's not like we were bowling good balls and getting smashed. We were bowling rubbish balls and getting smashed.

+1 And in that SA match it was Tahir who gave away 180 runs in just 23 overs. Theirs pacers did not bowled badly. And our bowlers bowling thrash and people defending them by saying its flat pitch, SA got destroyed here LOL

[rkt.india]

When you bowl 1 good ball every six balls it might get smashed. That's why you have to bowl six good balls, and constantly build up pressure. What do you think Test cricket is? You bowl a couple of good balls and if they get hit, you just throw your hands up in the air and yell "Flat wicket!" and wait for the opposition to declare?

No, but when good balls are hit, they try to do different things and then they lose the plot. People say bowling full is good, but most of the boundaries first morning were of full deliveries trying to get swing.

[bharat297]

No' date=' but when good balls are hit, they try to do different things and then they lose the plot. [b']People say bowling full is good, but most of the boundaries first morning were of full deliveries trying to get swing.

Bowling full in and of it's self is not good. Bowling full is better than bowling short because you bring bowled and lbw in to play. But generally you have to bowl a good length (5-7m), hit the deck hard, swing the ball and land it there all day. The bouncer is good as a change up if the batsmen get too comfortable coming forward. You don't just toss the ball up there and hope it swings. India were bowling wide half volleys, then ones down leg, then trying a bouncer, then a short of a length ball. You can't bowl six different balls an over and expect to get wickets in Test matches.

[bharat297]

+1 And in that SA match it was Tahir who gave away 180 runs in just 23 overs. Theirs pacers did not bowled badly. And our bowlers bowling thrash and people defending them by saying its flat pitch, SA got destroyed here LOL

Exactly! I don't even understand how it's an argument. We were bowling absolutely pathetically and people point to the pitch and how South Africa bowled 2 years ago and make excuses. Here's the brutal truth ... The way we bowled in this Test match will never get us wickets on any pitch around the world! It doesn't matter if its an absolute green top. You can't bowl six different balls of rubbish and expect wickets.

[Gollum]

Ashwin is our best bet, genuine Indian great in the making. Should be given a long rope he can be the Richie Benaud of the modern era.

[CG]

Bowling full in and of it's self is not good. Bowling full is better than bowling short because you bring bowled and lbw in to play. But generally you have to bowl a good length (5-7m), hit the deck hard, swing the ball and land it there all day. The bouncer is good as a change up if the batsmen get too comfortable coming forward. You don't just toss the ball up there and hope it swings. India were bowling wide half volleys, then ones down leg, then trying a bouncer, then a short of a length ball. You can't bowl six different balls an over and expect to get wickets in Test matches.

Bowling full is good when there is help but here there was no help in air or off the pitch they tried it early and got driven ,matter of fact they were too full and attacking.Each bowler has diff length which they have to find on these pitches.

[bharat297]

Bowling full is good when there is help but here there was no help in air or off the pitch they tried it early and got driven ' date='matter of fact they were too full and attacking.Each bowler has diff length which they have to find on these pitches.[/quote'] Shami was getting swing with the new ball. He just wasted it with some ordinary bowling. There was definitely movement in the air.

[rkt.india]

Shami was getting swing with the new ball. He just wasted it with some ordinary bowling. There was definitely movement in the air.

That lasted just one over. Otherwise, why did not he get swing after that despite bowling full? Warner was hitting on the up and hitting boundaries. Thing is I dont blame bowlers because they did not make strategy of bowling round the stumps. You cannot bowl round the stumps with new ball straightaway. They are no Anderson. Warner too could have got out like Rogers but they kept bowling round to Warner. I was cringing from over one seeing that.

[bharat297]

That lasted just one over. Otherwise' date=' why did not he get swing after that despite bowling full? Warner was hitting on the up and hitting boundaries.[/quote'] You don't just bowl full and expect swing. It has to do with wrist position, the angle of the delivery, the line. The ball was swinging with the new ball. Watch the Aussies with the new ball. See if Ryan Harris only gets it to swing for 1 over.

[bharat297]

That lasted just one over. Otherwise' date=' why did not he get swing after that despite bowling full? Warner was hitting on the up and hitting boundaries. Thing is I dont blame bowlers because they did not make strategy of bowling round the stumps. You cannot bowl round the stumps with new ball straightaway. They are no Anderson. Warner too could have got out like Rogers but they kept bowling round to Warner. I was cringing from over one seeing that.[/quote'] Yeah the around the wicket strategy was silly. I found that dumb too. Shami was getting it to tail in sharply to the left hander but because he was bowling around the wicket, it was just going down leg. If he bowled over the wicket, then he could have given himself a chance for lbw. The commentators didnt understand that either.

[rkt.india]

You don't just bowl full and expect swing. It has to do with wrist position, the angle of the delivery, the line. The ball was swinging with the new ball. Watch the Aussies with the new ball. See if Ryan Harris only gets it to swing for 1 over.

They have both good seam positions to get swing. Aaron got swing in England even by bowling round the stumps. He cleaned up Moen Ali in one of the test by swing the ball from that angle, but more than swing, you need to your length consistently in Australia because pitches are too good to bat, ball comes on to the bat with nice bounce, bit short, bit full will be taken for runs, need to hit that 7 meter mark consistently.

[G_B_]

he was never test material IMO but I don't want to blame him too much. Not a spinners deck. Having said that wont be surprised if we treat Lyon like Warne.

[BlueBee]

Yes, hitting that 7m length and around the off stump. That's the basic thing. Bowl 5 of them in that area and the other a Bouncer. Aaron and Shami needs to be much consistent and bowl majority of their balls around that area. Yadav was wayward too but recently has adjusted the Line and length very well. Wait for the Aussies to bowl especially Ryan Harris and Siddle.