Seamers have pace now but still shyte!!

[Straight Drive]

Dhoni himself took credit for that :haha: It was shyte English batting getting out to the same delivery that got us the win... A man with few ideas, he tried the same thing with Johnson and got fecked in Brisbane, and now against Haddin in Melbourne

Dhoni himself took credit rather than others giving him :hysterical: The pace bowlers never picked enough wickets even when Pataudi, Ajit Wadekar, Sunnny, Bedi, Srikanth,Azhar, Kapil, Saurav, Rahul, Sachin and Dhoni were captains. You may be correct . None of these Indian captains know how to set fields for pace bowlers. It's the problem with captains that most of our pace bowlers have flopped in last 5 decades.

[Temujin Khaghan]

we need zak as coach.

[ZeroBlack]

Young, forever young, Indians must have found the magic formula for Eternally young.

[JaFanatic]

Lack of control, no proper guidance and poor fielding. BTW Umesh is the joint highest wicket taker(one less match) among pacers along with one trick pony

[Lord]

:haha: lol :hysterical: dhoni himself took all the credit for lords poor ishu .headline was dhonis tatics

BS.He was specifically asked about that tactic and he just said it was his but credited Ishant for execution

"That last over before lunch, Ishant didn't really want to bowl short, I was like, 'you have to bowl it,' I turned the other way round. He got his wicket and then it gave him the confidence to keep bowling short, keep attacking the batsman. I think it was a fantastic performance."

and heres what poor Ishu had to say about credit stealer

"The way batsmen played in the first innings, Ajinkya played really well in the first innings, that gave us the momentum. Also the way Vijay played, Jaddu and Bhuvi also. Cricket is a great leveller, the way MS bhai handled the team, the way he keeps on motivating the guys. I think all these wickets are not for me, it is for the captain. He told me, 'you are tall enough, you have to bowl the bouncer,' that's what I did and it worked for me."

[Lord]

The bowlers are bowling very badly , so the pace is not going to matter. Shaun Tait.. very fast. Only played 5 tests because of bad line and length. It's like cannon fodder at that pace with erratic line and length. Blame Dhoni. No. Ishant took few 5 fers this year under field set by Dhoni. Bhuvi too took 5 fers with Dhoni's field setting. Did anyone give Dhoni credit then. No. Then why are you blaming him for each and every below par pace bowler that India produces. Dhoni also did not play the first test, so why bowlers did not perform under Virat. The main reason si the quality not which captain is taking charge of field placements. After Kapil Dev and ZAK india has not produced a quality test pace bowler. Dhoni was not even playing cricket for many of those decades. But yes lets blame him. for lack of pace bowlers in last 3 whole decades. As i he is coaching each and every bowler in Indian cricket. having said that Dhoni must be dropped as captain from test team as he has failed to get results and accountability is to be considered.

++

[CG]

BS.He was specifically asked about that tactic and he just said it was his but credited Ishant for execution and heres what poor Ishu had to say about credit stealer

How many times he has said out bowlers were mindless and took blame like today or last test when his tatic failed poor bowlers are taken to sword by people like u.There is no defence :giggle: When he can take credit for tactics we will blame him when it backfires too its works that way man. and ishant did say if things would not have worked he would have been blamed by people like u. Off course its captains tactic everything is if it works you say i made him and if he does we do not bowl line and length

[Crookbond]

BS.He was specifically asked about that tactic and he just said it was his but credited Ishant for execution and heres what poor Ishu had to say about credit stealer

I wanted to comment on this but avoided with the Dhoni circle jerk. The point was Dhoni actually credited the team for the performance in the presentation ceremony or press conference. A fact conveniently ignored because it doesn't suit the set F*** Dhoni narrative. I am all for Dhoni to be removed from the Test captaincy (even ODIs, T20s if you ask me) but we don't need to twist facts to make that case.

[CG]

'No praise for effort had plan failed' - Ishant Ishant Sharma, who has often been criticised for not taking enough wickets despite his experience, has said his labours go unappreciated outside the dressing room. Ishant took 7 for 74 with a bouncer barrage to win the Lord's Test for India, but said that had the wickets not come, people would not have noticed the effort that went into bowling all the short deliveries. "No one has given me as much in life as cricket has. When I go out on the cricket field, I give all that I have, every time," Ishant told bcci.tv. "Sometimes, I feel like my efforts are never appreciated by people other than my team-mates. Because I got all these wickets, people are praising me. But had I gone for runs, had the plan failed, no one would have appreciated the fact that I was continuously bowling bouncers with an 80-plus overs old ball. "It has always been like that with me and now I am pretty used to it. I am experienced enough to ensure that I don't get affected by what XYZ is saying about me. I know that my mates have the belief in me and they appreciate what I do for the team. That's enough for me to carry on. I will continue to give myself fully each time I step on the field to play for my country." Ishant had Moeen Ali fending the last ball before lunch to short leg. After the break, he had Matt Prior, Ben Stokes and Joe Root falling to pull shots, before having Stuart Broad gloving a short ball to the wicketkeeper. Ishant said that coach Duncan Fletcher felt he should bowl more bouncers, and that he had done so under instructions from captain MS Dhoni. "In my first spell of five overs, the batsmen go beaten quite a few times and the ball moved as well. So I thought the ball would still be reversing, which didn't happen. That's when MS bhai told me that since the ball has become really soft, let's try something new. "He said let's open up the whole field and bowl only bouncers. This is the last over (before lunch) and you never know what could happen. The plan worked and we decided to continue with it after lunch. We persisted with the old ball because with the new ball the batsman can judge the bounce with ease, while with the old one he cannot gauge the bounce as some might take off and an odd one will keep low. I feel all the wickets I got today should go to MS bhai because he planned them and set the field for them. "Duncan keeps telling me, 'bowl more bouncers, bowl more bouncers'. But when you go in with a plan, sometimes it works and at times it doesn't. Things happen suddenly. Today I got to learn that if you keep trying persistently with the short-ball ploy on a flat wicket with nothing in it for you, you can get rewards you never expected." England kept pulling themselves out of the contest but Ishant said with the variable bounce in the surface, they had few options. "The wicket had slowed down considerably over the five days and because of the footmarks there was a lot of variable bounce. It was very difficult for the batsmen to leave the bouncers; they had to play it and they had to go for the pull or hook." In the 2011 Test at Lord's between the two sides, Ishant had gone wicketless in the first innings before taking four in the second. He said he knew from the experience that wickets could come in a bunch on the ground. "Last time when I picked four wickets at Lord's, I remember I was bowling very well in the first session but didn't get any wickets. When I came back on, I got four wickets in no time. It was on my mind today. I knew that on this ground the wickets come in bulk. So I knew that if I stuck to my ploy patiently, I will get the rewards. I told the same to (Mohammed) Shami and Bhuvi (Bhuvneshwar Kumar) as well, so that they keep the belief and don't give up." Shami and Bhuvneshwar have played eight Tests each compared to Ishant's 57, and he said that he shared his experiences with them on the ground. "When I am on the field, I talk to the other pacers and mainly share my experience in a similar situation. If you want to pick 20 wickets as a team, it is of paramount importance that the bowlers communicate with each other constantly. I just tell them things like how the wicket generally plays and what the particular batsman generally does. I do try to be the leader on the field because I have played more matches than them. But once we're off it, I am not a senior player because we all are almost of the same age. So, there is a dual aspect to that role." © ESPN Sports Media Ltd. Ishant does speak some sense look now the plan failed how bowlers are blamed.:hatsoff:

[Lord]

How many times he has said out bowlers were mindless and took blame like today or last test when his tatic failed poor bowlers are taken to sword by people like u.There is no defence :giggle: When he can take credit for tactics we will blame him when it backfires too its works that way man. and ishant did say if things would not have worked he would have been blamed by people like u. Off course its captains tactic everything is if it works you say i made him and if he does we do not bowl line and length

WTH?The topic was Dhoni taking credit for tactic,not what you or me discuss.Has he ever said that a tactic that failed wasnt his or was told by someone else?One single instance will do. If a tactic works hes crediting bowler for execution,so if it doesnt he can say opposite too.Execution is more important than tactic imo. About last test,we took out Haddin and Warner with same short ball tactic.I didn't see you credit ing tactic there,but when it failed it became a bad tactic. Ishant himself said it was Dhoni's plan.not sure what the problem is then

[Lord]

I wanted to comment on this but avoided with the Dhoni circle jerk. The point was Dhoni actually credited the team for the performance in the presentation ceremony or press conference. A fact conveniently ignored because it doesn't suit the set F*** Dhoni narrative. I am all for Dhoni to be removed from the Test captaincy (even ODIs, T20s if you ask me) but we don't need to twist facts to make that case.

true

[rkt.india]

Bouncer plan is shut from the outset.

[Straight Drive]

But why the hell pace bowlers did not take lot of wickets under other captains like Ajit Wadekar, Sunnny, Bedi, Srikanth,Azhar, Kapil, Saurav, Rahul, Sachin also. Did they also not knew how to set fields for pace bowlers. The fact is that we have a much better quality of spin bowlers over the years than the pace bowlers. In pace the only standouts are Kapil and ZAK. Remember ZAK had best career under Dhoni's captaincy as well. So the issue is not that captains could not set field for pacers. Kapil and ZAK were quality and they picked lot of wickets. Similarly current pacers are failing due to lack of world class quality rather than field placements. And most of the field Dhoni keeps is similar to what other captains have been giving to Wasim,Steyn,McGrath,Ambrose,Walsh,Waqar. Keeper,slips,covers,point,long leg,third man, gully,mid off, mid on, long off,long on etc. Dhoni has invented new fielding positions or what that you are saying his field is different :giggle: Please name if you know any new fielding position Dhoni has invented apart from keeper standing mid way for Jaddu during some test match. Nobody is talking about the high ratio of catches dropped by Virat and other slip fielders or Dhoni as keeped and elsewhere in other fielding positions. The problem to me is lack of excellent pace bowling resources who can generate lot of chances plus the many catches dropped by fielders from the very few chances that pace bowlers manage to generate. However, fielders also dropped catches generated by Kapil and ZAK. The difference though is that both of them generated more bowled,leg befores,more catches chances than other bowlers we have had and have now.

[bulbul]

BS.He was specifically asked about that tactic and he just said it was his but credited Ishant for execution and heres what poor Ishu had to say about credit stealer

Obviously "poor" Ishu will say like that when he got 50 test matches :haha:

[express bowling]

We either have pacers with accuracy OR pacers with pace. Unless we have pacers who have both decent accuracy and decent pace or/and bounce, we won't be able to bowl out oppositions cheaply outside the subcontinent. In addition to the incomplete bowlers .... we have a captain in tests who does not really think on his feet and takes too long to change a strategy that his not working or to plug a loophole that is hurting us bad ... like the no-thirdman policy in England. Combination of bad bowlers and not too sharp + obstinate captaincy is costing us dear.

[CG]

WTH?The topic was Dhoni taking credit for tactic,not what you or me discuss.Has he ever said that a tactic that failed wasnt his or was told by someone else?One single instance will do. If a tactic works hes crediting bowler for execution,so if it doesnt he can say opposite too.Execution is more important than tactic imo. About last test,we took out Haddin and Warner with same short ball tactic.I didn't see you credit ing tactic there,but when it failed it became a bad tactic. Ishant himself said it was Dhoni's plan.not sure what the problem is then

No topic is not dhoni credit for tactic.Its was straight drive opinion that dhoni did not take credit where as in the media the lords test victory was attributed to dhoni tactics and thats the fact . A tactic becomes bad when u do not learn we had aaron who had extra pace even then johnshon left his bouncers and hammered others now if you act like an idiot and do not learn and again try the same thing with bowlers of lesser pace off course you will be criticised

[Lord]

No topic is not dhoni credit for tactic.Its was straight drive opinion that dhoni did not take credit where as in the media the lords test victory was attributed to dhoni tactics and thats the fact .

The point is that Dhoni didnt take credit himself as you and some others seem to imply This is headline after the Test,mentioning Ishant rightly http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/762777.html

A tactic becomes bad when u do not learn we had aaron who had extra pace even then johnshon left his bouncers and hammered others now if you act like an idiot and do not learn and again try the same thing with bowlers of lesser pace off course you will be criticised

Umesh has pace too.And Ishant and Shami arent trundlers too by any means. And just because the plan is to bowl short doesnt mean you bowl short all the time.A good bowler will execute the same tactic much better on Aus wickets.Bowlers gotta have a clue too.

[CG]

The point is that Dhoni didnt take credit himself as you and some others seem to imply This is headline after the Test,mentioning Ishant rightly http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/762777.html Umesh has pace too.And Ishant and Shami arent trundlers too by any means. And just because the plan is to bowl short doesnt mean you bowl short all the time.A good bowler will execute the same tactic much better on Aus wickets.Bowlers gotta have a clue too.

Forget cricinfo everywhere the headlines where about dhonis tactics in media where as they were nothing new or innovative.Dhonis does not go take the blame for bowling tactics which fail so no way he should get any credit. Shami are not suited to bowling short like aaron can aaron is one of the quickest in the world and can maintain pace.yadav can but he is not effective like that why the hell would you try a tactic when bowling line and length got us wickets yesterday ,even if you do change when it does not work.These are young bowlers they hardly have guts to call out the captain they need a place first.

[ExpressPace]

Brainless bowling and captaincy. The art of setting up a batsmen is just not there.

[mancalledsting]

1. Managed by a captain who has no idea about seam bowling 2. Umesh and Shami still in experienced 3. Only 3 Seamers in one match- they are fatigue to quickly 4. Poor fielding