rkt.india Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 drs is here to eliminate only the howlers and not the 50-50 calls.50-50 calls can go either way and has been for years' date='u cant complain on that,basically its a gamble taken by the fielding or the batting team.u take the review if u think its a howler,if u think its close or 50-50 then be ready to be on the wrong side of the decision most of the times[/quote'] howlers can be corrected by third umpire itself. You dont need to give it to players then. Also, what is the definition of howler. Ball missing the stumps by a centimeter is a howler too and no batsman would know how much ball hitting the stumps or missing the stumps. It just all plain guess.
putrevus Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 If you want to question umpire's integrity then let's not have umpires at all. There are wides, no balls and 100s of things umpires decide which can change the course of the game. If you have zero trust in umpires, remove umpires completely, even third umpires because how do we know they are not evil Nazis in disguise favoring only Aryans? Secondly, I think you have still not grasped what people are trying to explain. Umpire's call is just H/E way of saying, boss, I CANNOT take this decision. So in such a scenario how do you want to make a decision. Please come up with an alternative? Toss a coin? Do the cha cha? Let Sreesanth make the decision? Please provide an alternative No there are not 100s of things umpires can change because replay is there they would be caught if they do anything blatantly. Umpire's call is the only thing they cannot be caught . Why did neutral umpires come into existence, for one reason alone visiting teams did not trust home umpires, with this umpire's call you are pushing the game back and giving umpire more power to influence the outcome of game and still not punished if doing nefarious/wrong things. You still are not getting it, i know what umpire's call in theory is , what you are not getting is that ambiguity from technology is causing trust issues and knowingly or unknowingly these umpires are favoring one team over another. Do I need to remind you Steve Bucknor or Bruce oxenford and the reasons why DRS came into existence. When players can see on replay the same thing having two different outcomes then we have serious issues.It is easy to criticize Indian team for not trusting DRS but they got burnt lot of times, Ian Bell in last world cup, even he thought he was out but he umpire's call saved him. Simple solution is leave some calls of on field umpires alone and teams cannot refer it.Predictive path aspect of LBW should be left alone to on field umpire's decision. Overtime these umpires can evaluated and graded.
CSK Fan Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Why did neutral umpires come into existence, for one reason alone visiting teams did not trust home umpires, with this umpire's call you are pushing the game back and giving umpire more power to influence the outcome of game and still not punished if doing nefarious/wrong things. Do remember, we are talking about marginal, marginal calls here. +-4.5 cm. You seem to constantly think we are talking about howlers Do I need to remind you Steve Bucknor or Bruce oxenford and the reasons why DRS came into existence. To avoid obvious howlers yes. Not to make assumptions when the manufacturers themselves have agreed to the error rate. If technology has not reached that state yet, you cannot assume things. When players can see on replay the same thing having two different outcomes then we have serious issues.It is easy to criticize Indian team for not trusting DRS but they got burnt lot of times' date=' Ian Bell in last world cup, even he thought he was out but he umpire's call saved him.[/quote'] That is because the same ball CAN have two different outcomes as error rate is both plus and minus. Just because you and I or the players do not understand how probabilities work, does not mean we go the dumb route. I do not understand how flight instruments work, even pilots might not understand. But they leave it to the engineers to create them. Leave it to the experts In that case even howlers will not be over-turned when ball is completely missing the stumps
CSK Fan Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Sri Lanka almost lost a review because snicko was not available. Then match referee reinstated the review
putrevus Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Do remember, we are talking about marginal, marginal calls here. +-4.5 cm. You seem to constantly think we are talking about howlers To avoid obvious howlers yes. Not to make assumptions when the manufacturers themselves have agreed to the error rate. If technology has not reached that state yet, you cannot assume things. That is because the same ball CAN have two different outcomes as error rate is both plus and minus. Just because you and I or the players do not understand how probabilities work, does not mean we go the dumb route. I do not understand how flight instruments work, even pilots might not understand. But they leave it to the engineers to create them. Leave it to the experts In that case even howlers will not be over-turned when ball is completely missing the stumps Why have all this mumbo jumbo just have third umpire intervene if there are any howlers if the objective of DRS is to only eliminate howlers and tell teams and fans about it. No one is saying not to use technology but use it for things where there is no room for ambiguity.Errors can still happen but they are errors which can be rectified or improved upon. Umpire's call is not an error it is a limitation of technology so ambiguity comes into equation which opens whole pandora's box again.
Crookbond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 If you want to question umpire's integrity then let's not have umpires at all. There are wides, no balls and 100s of things umpires decide which can change the course of the game. If you have zero trust in umpires, remove umpires completely, even third umpires because how do we know they are not evil Nazis in disguise favoring only Aryans? Secondly, I think you have still not grasped what people are trying to explain. Umpire's call is just H/E way of saying, boss, I CANNOT take this decision. So in such a scenario how do you want to make a decision. Please come up with an alternative? Toss a coin? Do the cha cha? Let Sreesanth make the decision? Please provide an alternative I don't understand HOW anyone can not get this simple point. There are two zones - DRS error free zone and DRS non error free confidence zone. In the latter, we fall back to humans. B*****, what else should be done?!
Crookbond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Why have all this mumbo jumbo just have third umpire intervene if there are any howlers if the objective of DRS is to only eliminate howlers and tell teams and fans about it. There should be technology too for that too. Real time snicko was just introduced in November 2013. Increasingly, that is where it will all head too. No one is saying not to use technology but use it for things where there is no room for ambiguity.Errors can still happen but they are errors which can be rectified or improved upon. That is exactly what umpire's call does - uses technology when there is no room for ambiguity. But the bigger question is what to do when there is? Flip a coin or create an online poll? Currently, the most reasonable way is to fall back on the umpire. Umpire's call is not an error it is a limitation of technology so ambiguity comes into equation which opens whole pandora's box again. Umpire's call is the better alternative due to limitation of technology.
rkt.india Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 That is exactly what umpire's call does - uses technology when there is no room for ambiguity. But the bigger question is what to do when there is? Flip a coin or create an online poll? Currently, the most reasonable way is to fall back on the umpire. U. No that isn't.
putrevus Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 There should be technology too for that too. Real time snicko was just introduced in November 2013. Increasingly, that is where it will all head too. Use what is available . That is exactly what umpire's call does - uses technology when there is no room for ambiguity. But the bigger question is what to do when there is? Flip a coin or create an online poll? Currently, the most reasonable way is to fall back on the umpire. Where did flip a coin come from ? You are not getting a simple thing don't want to use technology when there is ambiguity involved in the process period. Umpire's call is the better alternative due to limitation of technology. Why should technology be used for every aspect of the game, not needed.
Crookbond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 No that isn't. It is. You are indulging in the ulta logic fallacy.
Crookbond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Use what is available . They are doing it. Where did flip a coin come from ? You are not getting a simple thing don't want to use technology when there is ambiguity involved in the process period. And it is NOT - that's where the umpire calls comes into picture. Why should technology be used for every aspect of the game, not needed. Are we even on same page here? The thread is about "umpire's call". You talked about limitation of technology, I provide a solution. Now, if you do NOT want technology to be used fine but that is not what's being discussed here.
rkt.india Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 It is. You are indulging in the ulta logic fallacy. If umpire was so trusted then why fall on DRS at first place. You use DRS because umpires were making mistakes. Technology is still better than any umpire even with that error margin. I would take that error margin over umpire decision. I just want a consistent decision on a similar call which we do no get presently. A similar marginal call can yield two different decisions based on what on-field umpire decides.
Crookbond Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 If umpire was so trusted then why fall on DRS at first place. You use DRS because umpires were making mistakes. Technology is still better than any umpire even with that error margin. I would take that error margin over umpire decision. I just want a consistent decision on a similar call which we do no get presently. A similar marginal call can yield two different decisions based on what on-field umpire decides. Bhai, tu rehne de.
Old guy Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Warner LBW ^ Was it howler ? Point is it can be few cents meters both above and below so you cannot change it . Only argument here is that if its so close do not take away review from team .
CSK Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 If umpire was so trusted then why fall on DRS at first place. You use DRS because umpires were making mistakes. Technology is still better than any umpire even with that error margin. I would take that error margin over umpire decision. I just want a consistent decision on a similar call which we do no get presently. A similar marginal call can yield two different decisions based on what on-field umpire decides. ONCE AND FOR ALL A MARGINAL CALL CAN YIELD TWO DECISIONS BECAUSE H/E ERROR RATE IS BOTH WAYS. THIS IS ACKNOWLEDGED BY THE MANUFACTURERS. STOP REPEATING THE SAME BOTH WAYS ARGUMENT AGAIN AND AGAIN
G_B_ Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 at the very least a team should not lose a review on umpires call thats all i ask for.
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