Harbhajan or Ashwin - Better Spinner?

[BeautifulGame]

Ashwin doesn't bowl much in death Overs in Odis .That's mostly Jadeja Ashwin more often than not gets bowled out in the batting power plays . Now with the new fielding regulations u would expect spinners to bowl a lot more death Overs .Maybe Dhoni will use him more in the last 20 Overs regularly

[Austin 3:!6]

Bhajji Clearly outperforming Ashwin here

[Gollum]

Bhajji Clearly outperforming Ashwin here

IPL meh

[sensible-indian]

I consider Bhajji to be a better all round package in IPL than Ashwin in general except for the 2010, 2011 seasons where Ashwin was superior just due to his bowling skill alone. Bhajji in IPL is a good spinner (leaving aside his action), decent fielder and a clutch lower order slogger who has won MI countless games. Ashwin is not an allrounder in T20. As for today's game, I watched it ball by ball and here's my view of Ashwin vs Bhajji in this match. Bhajji outperformed him today based on results....not quality of bowling. Ashwin bowled 2 overs for 21 runs. One four - bad ball in the leg side One nb + 6 - his fault One flighted delivery which Rohit smashed for 6 (a good delivery which was smashed for 6). In that 3 deliveries resulted in 18 runs. The rest 9 deliveries resulted in 3 runs. He was flighting, looping, dipping and spinning the ball with skill. Still rubbish effort from Ashwin because of those 2 balls but the quality of his bowling otherwise was top notch. The problem is that Dhoni has been having a new weird strategy this whole season. If a bowler gets hit, he doesn't give him the ball again (especially ifs it offies to right handers or lefties to left handers) which ensured Ashwin never got a chance again (has happened in quite a few matches). Maybe MI would have tonked him bad later on...but maybe he would have got back with a wicket or two. You never know. Contrast that to Bhajji. He came in when other bowlers were going to 4-6 rpo and gave around 30 runs around 2.4 overs before getting that woeful Smith out (good ball though). Against Raina, he had no real strategy other than firing it wide which got his wicket. He wasn't getting much spin too. I have noticed Bhajji outperform Ashwin in IPL at various points in the last 2 seasons but in today's game he wasn't all that great. In this IPL (prelim stages - 14 games - as per the IPL website) Bhajji bowled 57 overs, got 18 wickets at an average of 24 at an economy of 7.8. Ashwin bowled 39 overs (thanks to Dhoni's new strategy), got 10 wickets at an average of 22 at an economy of 5.8. http://www.iplt20.com/stats/2015/best-economy Ashwin is also the most economical bowler of IPL 2015 with an economy of 5.84 (Jayant Yadav is no 1 but he played just 3 games). With that being said, I do feel Ashwin has to work on his wicket taking skills in T20 to give his team a bit more impact. Needs a bit more carrom in T20s (which was his weapon in WC T20 2014).

[Ironhide]

[vvvslaxman]

Bhajji was bowling to bunch of out of form batsmen chasing with scoreboard pressure.

[Austin 3:!6]

Why CSK fans dislike Bhajji so much?? :hmmm: We non CSK people love Ashwin though and want him to do good :nice:

[Texan]

As a cricketer Ashwin because he is a far better bat and not an A grade coward like Harbhajan. Harbhajan is famous for slipping under the radar when the opponent batsmen make merry, hiding behind others to protect his bowling figures or faking injuries before/during matches when the team is under the pump. Ashwin on the other hand seems to relish bowling in powerplays,death for the team's cause which spoil his bowling figures almost every single time. As a spinner this is what I think: ICC tourneys I. 50 overs ICC tourneys Clearly Ashwin steps up his game in 50 over CWC/Champion's Trophy while Bhajji has been a letdown. Ashwin was one of the reasons why we won the Champion's Trophy and was our best bowler in this year's World Cup, (in extremely batsmen friendly pitches might I add). Economy rates are similar(take into account the fact that batting run rates this decade are at an all time high) while Ashwin has much better average and SR. Bhajji's contribution in the CWC 2011 is over rated, he was tight but very unpenetrative, disappointing for a spinner in SC like conditions. 2. T20 World Cups Once again Ashwin sweeps the floor with Bhajji. Much better average, better SR, better economy rate, nothing to look for here. Again Bhajji's heroics in the T20 WC 2007 are over rated, average of 27 at economy rate of 7.91 is nothing special. His only moment of glory was that over to Clarke. Almost lost us the finals with his pies to Misbah. Verdict:Ashwin Test cricket Bhajji having under his belt 4 times as many tests as Ashwin has played part in some iconic wins. His bowling in the 2001 series against the greatest team ever assembled was probably the highest point for any Indian bowler. Also his bowling records against Aus(home) and RSA(home and to away) are extraordinary. Ashwin has been ruthless at home but faltered against a well oiled English unit in 2012. (He needs to redeem himself against RSA and Eng when they tour here RSA this year,Eng next year). He came back strongly against Australia the next year and picked the MOS award. He has been ruthless in home tests in general picking up MOM/MOS awards very frequently. That shows that if he gets on a roll he is very difficult to stop, a bit like Harbhajan in his initial days. Just like Ashwin was a letdown in the England home series, Bhajji too has faltered a couple of times here and there eg home series' against Pak and Eng in 2005/6 period. But in general both are very good in Indian conditions. As far as overseas records are concerned Bhajji failed in Australia and England just like Ashwin but was very good in RSA and NZ at various points of his career. Ashwin needs to pick up during our subsequent tours to those countries. Hopefully the team management supports him(unlucky to miss out on turners in Durban and Adelaide this time around). Overall Bhajji's average(32.37) is nothing to write about. Add to the fact that he has played 69/101 tests in SC(55 in India) and another 13 in Zim/WI. So a sum total of 82/101 in favorable conditions. In spite of support of good captains(Ganguly,Dravid,pre 2011 Dhoni) and a very good catching unit his stats are nothing special. His actual worth is more like a 37/38 avg bowler. Ashwin on the other hand has played 15/24 matches in SC with a dunce captain and a very poor catching support. Average of 30.6 is decent, expect it to go to as low as 25 by 2018. Verdict:Bhajji but expect Ashwin to make up ground in the coming years ODIs Economy rates need to be seen in context. This decade, run rates have gone to a whole new level(remember last India Aus home ODI series) thanks to some ridiculous ICC rules & regulations making the contest between bat and ball skewed heavily in favor of bat. Bhajji bowled more in the previous decade when things were better for bowlers, spinners in particular. Also note that Ashwin bowls a lot in powerplays, death overs etc, so his economy generally takes a hit. Ashwin has a better average but needs to take more 4/5 wicket hauls. Anyways nobody gives a **** about bilaterals, tri nations etc these days. ICC tourneys are more important IMO. Verdict:Tie T20s International T20s(non WC)/IPL/CLT20 Overall Verdict: Ashwin is better in ICC tourneys while Bhajji has an edge in test cricket. I expect Ashwin to surpass Bhajji by the time his career is done as long as team politics doesn't curtail his career (big chance of that happening with the new captain and ouster of Srinivasan). Statistically I expect him to surpass even Kapil, he will end up as our 2nd greatest all rounder of all time(above Vinoo Mankad) and our best spinner since Kumble. Exciting times for Indian cricket with a solid core of Rahane,Vijay,Ashwin,Kohli,Pujara,Shami,Umesh. I expect at least 5 of the above to end as Indian greats and 2 as ATGs by the time they are done. Another thing the issue of chucking will always weigh heavily against Bhajji. I personally think that Murali, Saqlain, Bhajji, Ajmal etc are chuckers and their records should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Good analysis :two_thumbs_up: I will add some intangible aspects to this analysis. In the same T20 WC final that you mentioned, the same Bhajji had chickened out from bowling the last over against a rampaging Misbah and Dhoni had to turn to the inexperienced Joginder Sharma. In his short career so far, Ashwin has always readily accepted challenges like bowling the last few overs. The second intangible argument I will add is that Ashwin has always come across as a thinking cricketer. He is always looking for ways to improve. Bhajji, on the other hand, after his 2001 glory never bowled as well ever again. Towards the latter half of his career, he was only throwing darts. Ashwin has so far been disappointing away from home, but I feel he might still be able to improve his bowling and learn to get wickets away.

[sensible-indian]

Bhajji evokes a strong response across India regardless of one's IPL team affiliation. Its not a CSK thing. But don't think anyone has unfairly criticized him. Personally, I don't like Bhajji's attitude (just like I don't like Pollard's atitude). But that's got nothing to do with my view on his performances.

[sensible-indian]

Good analysis :two_thumbs_up: I will add some intangible aspects to this analysis. In the same T20 WC final that you mentioned, the same Bhajji had chickened out from bowling the last over against a rampaging Misbah and Dhoni had to turn to the inexperienced Joginder Sharma. In his short career so far, Ashwin has always readily accepted challenges like bowling the last few overs. The second intangible argument I will add is that Ashwin has always come across as a thinking cricketer. He is always looking for ways to improve. Bhajji, on the other hand, after his 2001 glory never bowled as well ever again. Towards the latter half of his career, he was only throwing darts. Ashwin has so far been disappointing away from home, but I feel he might still be able to improve his bowling and learn to get wickets away.

Are you sure about that bro? In that match, I think Dhoni didn't give him the last over (tournament changing decision IMHO) cos Misbah carted him before. Don't think Bhajji chickened out.

[Texan]

Are you sure about that bro? In that match, I think Dhoni didn't give him the last over (tournament changing decision IMHO) cos Misbah carted him before. Don't think Bhajji chickened out.

I read somewhere in an article after that World Cup that in a team conference just before the last over, Bhajji mentioned that he wasn't confident of bowling it. No doubt a great decision. We would have surely lost had Bhajji bowled.

[G_B_]

honestly we should play both

[sensible-indian]

I read somewhere in an article after that World Cup that in a team conference just before the last over' date=' Bhajji mentioned that he wasn't confident of bowling it. No doubt a great decision. We would have surely lost had Bhajji bowled.[/quote'] That's fine imho. If the team wanted him to bowl and he declined, that's an issue. But most of all, we must thank Misbah for giving us a victory. :two_thumbs_up:

[vvvslaxman]

Reason people have a go at Bhajji is because , he suddenly comes out of nowhere in the picture for selection. Because?

[Austin 3:!6]

Bhajji evokes a strong response across India regardless of one's IPL team affiliation. Its not a CSK thing. But don't think anyone has unfairly criticized him. Personally, I don't like Bhajji's attitude (just like I don't like Pollard's atitude). But that's got nothing to do with my view on his performances.

As far as attitude is concerned, both are on same boat. Ashwin's attitude is not entirely great either. That run out attempt against SL in 2011, wearing full sleeves to mock chuckers etc. were few examples. Even yesterday before the game in an interview with star he was acting street smart and saying all pressure will be on MI as they are waiting for 4 days in hotel :D:D Bhajji's attitude is backed up by 400 test wickets though

[sensible-indian]

As far as attitude is concerned, both are on same boat. Ashwin's attitude is not entirely great either. That run out attempt against SL in 2011, wearing full sleeves to mock chuckers etc. were few examples. Even yesterday before the game in an interview with star he was acting street smart and saying all pressure will be on MI as they are waiting for 4 days in hotel :D:D Bhajji's attitude is backed up by 400 test wickets though

Ashwin can be pompous at times. And the MI comment yesterday would have made him look foolish. :haha: But don't think he has attitude problems. Regarding the other issues: 1. The run out attempt (Mankad right?) was done AFTER he asked for the opinion of Indian players plus warning Thirimanne. What he did was 100% right bro. 2. The full sleeve move was hardly bad attitude. Everyone was getting advantage and he made a claim that he didn't want to be left behind when asked about it in a press conference. It was another thing that he wasn't as good as Ajmal or Narine even after trying to bend his elbows in that match. :haha:

[vvvslaxman]

All said and done he is a chucker who would not be called out if they enforce the strict observation on chuckers these days. India should look for grooming guys like Kuldeep Nayyar, Chahal, Shreyas Gopal not this washed up chucker.

[Ironhide]

Why CSK fans dislike Bhajji so much?? :hmmm: We non CSK people love Ashwin though and want him to do good :nice:

It is quite clear why CSK fans don't like Bhajji, no need of going into details, some of them even posted comments like they would like Bhajji to fail in the upcoming test match, nobody pours this kind of vitroil on Ashwin or Jadeja from any part of India, let alone on a Indian legend who has more than 400 Test wickets and has won many matches for India on his own.

[Gollum]

As far as attitude is concerned' date=' both are on same boat. Ashwin's attitude is not entirely great either. [b']That run out attempt against SL in 2011, wearing full sleeves to mock chuckers etc. were few examples. Even yesterday before the game in an interview with star he was acting street smart and saying all pressure will be on MI as they are waiting for 4 days in hotel :D:D Bhajji's attitude is backed up by 400 test wickets though

Run out attempt was after warning the batsman in question, all according to ICC rules and regulations His full leaves episode was a master stroke :hysterical:. Prompted ICC to take a closer look at chuckers. Why do you think Pakistani fans hate Ashwin/question his action? Because he exposed Ajmal and Hafeez for the chuckers they were.

[HippoSucks]

I didn't see Ashwin give a warning before the mankading by Ashwin. Senanayake gave a warnimg through the umpire which is in the spirit of the game IMO. But anyway they didn't carry out the appeal (due to Sehwag and Sachin) so it isn't a big issue.