Wasim Akram - genuine fast or fast -medium?

[maniac]

I am not denying your points at all, in fact supporting them. To bring data from one off speed tests with no calibration to current methods doesn't make sense. Anyone who thinks Thomson or Holding were 140k bowlers, simply isn't worth wasting time over on the topic.

How can we confirm that??? also I am assuming what qualifies as express is not just hitting the odd 150 but bowling 140-145 througout a spell...that is my personal opinion. I can guarantee that the likes of Morkel or would be world beaters in that generation as they are way superior athletes than either of them

[maniac]

Anyways back to the topic...Akram was express to fast in his early career...but by mid 90's to end of his career was 130-135 at best but had mad skills and bowling accumen to complement his average pace.

[maniac]

Will digress a bit from the topic - but does remind one of marshall especially later in his career when he could up his speed at will. I think that is what truly makes a genuine quick - you can slowly come into your spell - gauge the batter and the minute a wicket goes down every genuine quick great could easily generate speeds of 137-138+ and sustain it for a couple of spells to put the fear of god in the lineup. Akram could do that quite easily.

Well infact I started watching cricket from the 91 season.....my first series that I have fully formed memories of being the South Africa's welcome back into international cricket against India.....so most games I watched then are etched in my memory...so coming to Marshall all I remember of him is an average Trundler who would just do the containment job and not the lethal tearaway bowler that everyone talks about-May be people who saw him live in that era can attest to that. Having said that I beleive he took a bucketloads of wickets in his final test series preceeding that but don't know how phaaast he was then.

[GrandMasterSaxy]

Waseem started as a quick bowler and initially bowed around 140s but later on he heavily relied on swing and used to bowl around 125-130 kmph. There was a variation in pace (dropping to 10-15 kmph), but his delivery stride remained intact. I still believe he had the deadliest action ever.

[fineleg]

Did I just read Malcolm Marshall and trundler in the same sentence?

[HippoSucks]

Did I just read Malcolm Marshall and trundler in the same sentence?

He is talking about Marshall's last few years where most bowlers become less effective. However even then he was quite effective. I believe he picked up 40+ wickets in his last year (1991).

[Vijy]

Akram could bowl steadily in the low 140s, but I don't think that qualifies him as genuinely fast.

[maniac]

It is surprising when people on ICF make claims about Marshall's breath taking speed....firstly before the satellite boom,the only access was to watch Marshall bowl was on Doordarshan and only against India in the games they ended up telecasting. Also I don't beleive Marshall played in the 88-89 season against India both at home and away. So one has to go way way back or watch You tube videos..... even Stuart Binny's 6 wicket haul will look like a tearaway spell when there is no documentation of his pace or if it was passed down from generation to generation by the people who just witnessed it.

[maniac]

Wasim Akram was a 135-140 Max bowler as I remember him....in 1992 WC he was cranking it up and I am sure he was hitting 150's but again debatable. But the only real express Pace bowlers I have seen are hold your breath... Tino Best who is almost consistently in the 145-150 range. Alan Donald when he started. Ian Bishop Shoaib Akthar and Brett Lee(The fastest of them all) Shane Bond and OccasionallyMorne Morkel and Mitchell Johnson

[maniac]

There is kind of a fascination with romanticizing the past...this is the reason why I always took the Bradman Sachin argument as a joke. Similarly Jeff Thompson etc are sometimes overhyped I personally think.....I mean imagine...If likes of MJ can cause absolute carnage bowling in the 140's against a batsman fully protected or sorry for bringing this up but a cricketer can die of an unfortunate freak accident from a bowler bowling in the130's.,.....can you imagine how much carnage a 160+ bowler would have caused as people claim Jeff Thompson,Marshall or Holding to be especially in the era of less protection?

[kosingh]

Wasim Akram was a 135-140 Max bowler as I remember him....in 1992 WC he was cranking it up and I am sure he was hitting 150's but again debatable. But the only real express Pace bowlers I have seen are hold your breath... Tino Best who is almost consistently in the 145-150 range. Alan Donald when he started. Ian Bishop Shoaib Akthar and Brett Lee(The fastest of them all) Shane Bond and OccasionallyMorne Morkel and Mitchell Johnson

From this modern era -- Shaun Tait too

[maniac]

From this modern era -- Shaun Tait too

Yep definetely.....has to be right up there

[kosingh]

We're missing The Great Atul Sharma from discussion!

[rkt.india]

Yes about the same time - recall getting up to watch kapil dev walking out to hit a few in the early overs in the '92 WC. Marshall from what I have read could consistently spell after spell bowl real quick and later as he aged definitely got slower but everybody seems to talk about how he had that another gear to vary the pace at will within the space of 6 deliveries. Akram since I have seen him play and that too at the end of his career playing vs. aus in aus in his final series there could easily crank it up when required. He also single handedly won them the ODI bilaterals there if I recall correctly back then. I would like to believe even marshall had that capability intact even at the end of his career. I was talking more about the change up in pace - zak could do it when required too.

But neither Zak nor Akram were 150 koh bowlers. They both could crank around 145kph in their younger days and about 140 even at the end if their careers.

[Vijy]

Yeah when in pomp and really smoking could bowl spells of 144-145ish would akram - zak although a level and a half lower in terms of sustainability and strength of execution would be around 140-142ish. Now these are the change up in speeds obviously very few can sustain these forever and then you would bring the accuracy angle into it too. McGrath leaps and bounds again above zak when in supreme touch in his prime would be a 140-142ish bowler. All these even at the end of their careers could do that change up for a significant duration of time in their spells/innings but now operating in the 137-138+ zone. Very similar to what you say I too doubt whether akram was a 150+ bowler even in change-ups don't really recall seeing those speeds - Akhtar and lee definitely - Bond again was a late 140s touching 150 bowler.

Bond and Steyn (at their fastest) were not superfast a la Akhtar, Thommo and Lee, but they would still be classified as genuine fast bowlers.

[vayuu1]

Bond and Steyn (at their fastest) were not superfast a la Akhtar' date=' Thommo and Lee, but they would still be classified as genuine fast bowlers.[/quote'] Bond was a bit slower than akhtar and Lee, but much quicker than steyn at its fastest also he was more skillful than both akhtar and Lee.

[Trichromatic]

Bond was a bit slower than akhtar and Lee' date=' but much quicker than steyn at its fastest also he was more skillful than both akhtar and Lee.[/quote'] Akhtar was more skillful that Lee.

[Vijy]

Bond was a bit slower than akhtar and Lee' date=' but much quicker than steyn at its fastest also he was more skillful than both akhtar and Lee.[/quote'] Steyn early in his career was almost as fast as Bond.

[rkt.india]

Steyn early in his career was almost as fast as Bond.

No. Bond regularly hit 150 KPH and was quicker on average. Steyn didn't. Morkel has been faster than than Steyn on average in almost every match. It is about how quick you are on average.

[vayuu1]

Yup true also bond, had both inswingers and out swingers with wobbly seam, ability to reverse swing as well and one of the meanest yorkers and bouncers.