BEEF controversy

[Singh bling]

India does not have a developed large scale milk industry. I have been to arrey milk colony in mumbai and its no where close to being the industrialized to the level you are mentioning. 

What you are saying probably makes sense or may even make sense in the future. But Animal husbandry in India is extremely rudimentary for most of the masses that consume milk and does not inflict the type of cruelty you are insisting. 

India has a population of 280/300 million cows/bovine. 5.3 million are stray. That works out to 1.8%. Some context would be handy...What will happen is the milk industry will simply shift from cows to buffaloes. India is already the larges exporter of Buffalo meat.

 

India do have industrialised Dairy industry, .Punjab Haryana and other leading milk producing states have so. And govt is trying to promote it where it is non existent and read this what they do with male calves

Farmers often respond by donating their surplus bull calves to temples, by tying them to the temple fences. The temple management typically allows the calves to die from dehydration, which usually takes about a day in the Indian heat,  before finding the remains and selling them to leather merchants. - See more at: http://freefromharm.org/animal-cruelty-investigation/no-sacred-cows-the-dark-side-of-the-dairy-industry-in-india/#sthash.xydMQQLU.2qjS49M9.dpuf

But I lived for a dozen years on a dairy farm. I heard the newly separated cows and calves bawling all night 

So much love for Gau Mata?

also read this

 According to the cattle census of 2012, there are 53 lakh stray cattle including cows, bullocks and bulls. These cattle have been turned out by the peasants who own them because it is not economically viable to look after them. On a conservative estimate, maintenance of a dry cow or useless cattle will cost a hundred rupees a day. This is precisely why in an earlier judgement the Supreme Court had held that a " total ban on slaughter of useless cattle which involves a wasteful drain on the nation...cannot be justified."

The plight of such stray cattle, including dry cows, slowly starving to death or dying because of ingestion of toxic wastes including plastic does not however move the Hindutva forces. In states, where they are in power such as Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, the numbers of such stray cattle are large. At an all-India level, the minimum cost of feeding 53 lakh stray cattle would be around 20,000 crores rupees a year at 100 rupees per head. This is more than the entire amount allocated for the Scheduled Tribe Sub Plan in this year's budget. But the concern for the cow does not stretch to finances. In Haryana, for example Mr. Khattar gives only 40 rupees per head of cattle to registered gaushalas. Since thesegaushalas also include milch cattle which require a different more expensive diet, the useless cattle even in gaushalas starve to death.Such is the hypocrisy of the Hindutva right.

http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/the-hypocrisy-of-the-bjp-and-cow-slaughter-1233789

So from where 20000 crore come from? Also at present ,many states do allow slaughter of older bulls or ox if more strictly implemented then 53 lakh will become 5 crore in no time , then who will take care of these cows ? 

[G_B_]

free from harm.org? Yes they are a really neutral source. Speaking of calves, what would you have them do? A days death or torture them for a long time before they are sold as veal?  You do realize that a lot of male calves in the west end up as veal right?  I strongly recommend that you look up how veal is produced. Its systemic torture and I would rather than a quick days death to that. Its far more humane. Veal and Foei Gras are two of the most sick forms of cruelty which anybody can inflict on livestock. 

With regards to 20,000 crore, its really not that big an amount. I do believe that sum has always been earmarked in cleaning the Ganga. The budget of the BMC (Mumbai municipality) is close to 50,000 crore. Considering India has an expanding tax base its not the biggest sum in the world. 

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by G_B_

[Singh bling]

free from harm.org? Yes they are a really neutral source. Speaking of calves, what would you have them do? A days death or torture them for a long time before they are sold as veal?  You do realize that a lot of male calves in the west end up as veal right?  I strongly recommend that you look up how veal is produced. Its systemic torture and I would rather than a quick days death to that. Its far more humane. Veal and Foei Gras are two of the most sick forms of cruelty which anybody can inflict on livestock. 

With regards to 20,000 crore, its really not that big an amount. I do believe that sum has always been earmarked in cleaning the Ganga. The budget of the BMC (Mumbai municipality) is close to 50,000 crore. Considering India has an expanding tax base its not the biggest sum in the world. 

 Do west call themselves Gau Rakshaks? Why to compare their treatment with India. And You are O.K with 20000 crores of Public money wasted on useless cows ? In country where there is extreme poverty you people want poor children die of starvation but money should go to cows. Brilliant and you people make fun of Saudi and Pakistan. 

 

and it is not about neutral or biased source just ask any economist on burden of useless cows , bulls and oxen on economy . And yes male calves are systematically eradicated so that cost of fodder can be saved

[G_B_]

 Do west call themselves Gau Rakshaks? Why to compare their treatment with India. And You are O.K with 20000 crores of Public money wasted on useless cows ? In country where there is extreme poverty you people want poor children die of starvation but money should go to cows. Brilliant and you people make fun of Saudi and Pakistan. 

 

and it is not about neutral or biased source just ask any economist on burden of useless cows , bulls and oxen on economy . And yes male calves are systematically eradicated so that cost of fodder can be saved

The west are at the forefront of avoiding cruelty to animals. As per many even halal is painful to animals. So dont change the argument from cruelty to something else. Veal is extremely cruel and India are way more humane. We are rightly called gau rakshak. 

Denmark Bans Kosher and Halal Animal Slaughter

http://time.com/3974498/denmark-ban-kosher-halal/

And any economist will tell you. Ban on cow slaughter will lead to farmers expansion into buffelo. My own village near nashik has now all buffelo stock which has replaced the cow. This happened like a decade ago.  The market makes adjustments. Alcohol is banned in muslim countries. (many) this has lead to breweries making non alcoholic beer in places like Iran. The adjustment will come. Its not as if all bovine slaughter is banned. The real problem will come when buffaloes are banned from being slaughtered. 

And waste of public money argument can be applied as per convenience. India spends enough for example on the hajj subsidy. One can argue why such money is spent on a religious activities. One can feed many starving children in India with the hajj subsidy. There is no end in sight to this. Clearly not everybody will agree with all aspects of India's spending. What we cannot argue without a doubt is that tax collection is rising as a ratio to GDP. So the government at both state and centre can fulfill many more obligations. This includes feeding children and also taking care of stray cows.

Indirect tax collection increases by 35.8 %

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Indirect-tax-collection-increases-by-35-8-/articleshow/49296700.cms

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by G_B_

[Singh bling]

The west are at the forefront of avoiding cruelty to animals. As per many even halal is painful to animals. So dont change the argument from cruelty to something else. Veal is extremely cruel and India are way more humane. We are rightly called gau rakshak. 

Denmark Bans Kosher and Halal Animal Slaughter

http://time.com/3974498/denmark-ban-kosher-halal/

And any economist will tell you. Ban on cow slaughter will lead to farmers expansion into buffelo. My own village near nashik has now all buffelo stock which has replaced the cow. This happened like a decade ago.  The market makes adjustments. Alcohol is banned in muslim countries. (many) this has lead to breweries making non alcoholic beer in places like Iran. The adjustment will come. Its not as if all bovine slaughter is banned. The real problem will come when buffaloes are banned from being slaughtered. 

And waste of public money argument can be applied as per convenience. India spends enough for example on the hajj subsidy. One can argue why such money is spent on a religious activities. One can feed many starving children in India with the hajj subsidy. There is no end in sight to this. Clearly not everybody will agree with all aspects of India's spending. What we cannot argue without a doubt is that tax collection is rising as a ratio to GDP. So the government at both state and centre can fulfill many more obligations. This includes feeding children and also taking care of stray cows.

Indirect tax collection increases by 35.8 %

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Indirect-tax-collection-increases-by-35-8-/articleshow/49296700.cms

 

Farmers moving to Buffalo also mean 300 million cows will be on roads , Slaughter house or Gaushala's . If they are in gaushala then it mean 50 rupees per day feeding cost which means 1500 crore per day or more than 5  lakh crore per annum feeding. Who will bear that cost? So even moving to buffalo require killing of cows bulls , oxen

 

As far Hajj subsidy is concerned who support that? Hajj subsidy should be abolished and that money should also go to healthcare   and upliftment of poor

[Yoda-esque]

Couldn't care less about who eats Beef or anything for that matter as long as the narrative is fair and unbiased .

The media makes it seem as if apocalypse has struck India and that things were all hunky dory prior to that.Its a joke is what it is.

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[vvvslaxman]

Couldn't care less about who eats Beef or anything for that matter as long as the narrative is fair and unbiased .

 

The media makes it seem as if apocalypse has struck India and that things were all hunky dory prior to that.Its a joke is what it is.

 

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After my F*** you letter to TOI i see more and more non religious posts getting shared in FB lol 

[Gollum]

Maharashtra constable stabbed to ‘avenge beef ban’, hunt on for Maulana

Maharashtra constable stabbed to ‘avenge beef ban’, hunt on for maulana - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/maharashtra-constable-stabbed-to-avenge-beef-ban-hunt-on-for-maulana/#sthash.uaOgKXgz.6TV61Smr.dpuf

WTF !!!!

Edited October 21, 2015 by Gollum

[amiret]

The media is to blame for all the negative news. How i miss the days when they only reported Modiji's feel-good speeches and his International trips .

Now , just because a man was lynched , 2 children and a 19 yr old truck driver were burnt to death ,
the MSM is making it seem the country is in a complete state of Kejriwalesque Anarchy because of these few Stray incidents.

I am just glad they are NOT reporting the Mumbai Toyota service center murder  .

 

[coffee_rules]

Couldn't care less about who eats Beef or anything for that matter as long as the narrative is fair and unbiased .

 

The media makes it seem as if apocalypse has struck India and that things were all hunky dory prior to that.Its a joke is what it is.

 

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Forget media , even writers who are out of limelight, are trying to salvage some significance by returning their shifarized Sahitya academy awards, to be on newspapers to remind people they had gotten an award. This SA award politics is an all-time low in India. President is speaking about intolerance as if to say it is impossible for minorities to live in India today. One muslim's death, highly regrettable, doesn't make the whole country unlivable. That's what the whole MSM, left sickular libtards wants the whole world to believe in. What about one death that the country is ignoring just because he is a mainstream Hindu.

[kabbirann]

Maharashtra constable stabbed to ‘avenge beef ban’, hunt on for Maulana

Maharashtra constable stabbed to ‘avenge beef ban’, hunt on for maulana - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/maharashtra-constable-stabbed-to-avenge-beef-ban-hunt-on-for-maulana/#sthash.uaOgKXgz.6TV61Smr.dpuf

WTF !!!!

I was wondering when this would happen.It's like watching moves in a chess game.As much as I find India loathsome these days,still can't help feeling sad about the deaths that are coming.It will always be the poor and the vulnerable who will die.Someone's father,someone's son and we the padhe likhe gawar will go on justifying murder.

[G_B_]

Farmers moving to Buffalo also mean 300 million cows will be on roads , Slaughter house or Gaushala's . If they are in gaushala then it mean 50 rupees per day feeding cost which means 1500 crore per day or more than 5  lakh crore per annum feeding. Who will bear that cost? So even moving to buffalo require killing of cows bulls , oxen

 

As far Hajj subsidy is concerned who support that? Hajj subsidy should be abolished and that money should also go to healthcare   and upliftment of poor

umm you do realise that the shift wont be sudden right? Its not as if one day there are cows and one day they are all buffelos. As with most things there is and will be a transition period.

The life span of a cow is 15 years. They are simply going to retreat in terms of population if people dont breed them. This 300 million on the roads also does not make any sense. Most farmers leave their cattle in the countryside free to graze on the grass or what naturally grows.  Very few cattle are on the "roads" in urban areas as a ratio of total bovine population.

The point about Hajj subsidy is that you are not going to agree with all aspects of government spending.Some want India to spend more on military some want India to spend less of military. This is potentially one of those things.

 

Its not just about beef. I notice in tamil nadu there is a big push for prohibition. Isnt that the same as a beef ban?I dont see the controversy there. If a certain community does not consume something there is never any controversy. I dont see liberals defending the right of anybody to consume alcohol with the same fervor as they seem to do with cow beef. Note: Any bovine meat is beef. Technically beef is NOT banned in India.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by G_B_

[Singh bling]

umm you do realise that the shift wont be sudden right? Its not as if one day there are cows and one day they are all buffelos. As with most things there is and will be a transition period.

The life span of a cow is 15 years. They are simply going to retreat in terms of population if people dont breed them. This 300 million on the roads also does not make any sense. Most farmers leave their cattle in the countryside free to graze on the grass or what naturally grows.  Very few cattle are on the "roads" in urban areas as a ratio of total bovine population.

The point about Hajj subsidy is that you are not going to agree with all aspects of government spending.Some want India to spend more on military some want India to spend less of military. This is potentially one of those things.

 

Its not just about beef. I notice in tamil nadu there is a big push for prohibition. Isnt that the same as a beef ban?I dont see the controversy there. If a certain community does not consume something there is never any controversy. I dont see liberals defending the right of anybody to consume alcohol with the same fervor as they seem to do with cow beef. Note: Any bovine meat is beef. Technically beef is NOT banned in India.

 

 

If farmers will not breed cows then even milch cows will become dry. That means they will be of zero value also 45% of milk comes from cows so milk production will go down 45% moreover  for ever 1 milch buffalo a farmer has to take care 3 dry cows that mean milk price will go to Rs.200 per litre. Do you know the consequence of this? BJP and Hindutva parties will not even will single seat anywhere if it becomes reality

Also cows eat whatever grow naturally , do you think we are canada like nation with abundance of land? stray cows will over run farms  , there will be mass starvation of humans if this happen as crops will be destroyed , so ultimately state will force farmers to keep them or will keep them Gaushala 

The issue here is different from prohibition, people want to drink milk and milk products at cheap price but they don,t want cows to be killed .These 2 things cannot go in hand to hand

 

Another problem will be Desi cows cost around 10000 + while Buffaloes cost 50000 upward. If your hypothetical situation happen then Buffalo cost will go by 3 -4 times while cows will be of no value , means smaller farmers will be out of business Particularly in poor areas of India as they  hardly have enough money to shift to Buffaloes , result big farmer crisis and mass suicide , possibly mass support for Naxal movement . Is BJP or RSS or Hindutva forces ready to pay such price?

 

 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Singh bling

[G_B_]

If farmers will not breed cows then even milch cows will become dry. That means they will be of zero value also 45% of milk comes from cows so milk production will go down 45% moreover  for ever 1 milch buffalo a farmer has to take care 3 dry cows that mean milk price will go to Rs.200 per litre. Do you know the consequence of this? BJP and Hindutva parties will not even will single seat anywhere if it becomes reality

Also cows eat whatever grow naturally , do you think we are canada like nation with abundance of land? stray cows will over run farms  , there will be mass starvation of humans if this happen as crops will be destroyed , so ultimately state will force farmers to keep them or will keep them Gaushala 

The issue here is different from prohibition, people want to drink milk and milk products at cheap price but they don,t want cows to be killed .These 2 things cannot go in hand to hand

 

Another problem will be Desi cows cost around 10000 + while Buffaloes cost 50000 upward. If your hypothetical situation happen then Buffalo cost will go by 3 -4 times while cows will be of no value , means smaller farmers will be out of business Particularly in poor areas of India as they  hardly have enough money to shift to Buffaloes , result big farmer crisis and mass suicide , possibly mass support for Naxal movement . Is BJP or RSS or Hindutva forces ready to pay such price?

 

 

you are forgetting it will be a gradual process. Cows who cannot provide milk will be replaced by buffaloes. 300 million are not suddenly going to be replaced. Your arguments hinge on there being a sudden change in animal husbandry which wont happen.

Speaking from my experience with my village. The buffaloes replaced the cows over a 8-9 year period from sat 1999 to 2007. Our village provides milk and meat of the buffalo to Surat and Mumbai.  I did not see cows simply roaming about. A milk cow especially lives for only a few years after she stops producing milk. Its the same for the whole bovine family. With regards to cost of buffelo. Well 50,000 is just way off the mark IMO. I know the price for a buffelo in my village (generic) is about 25,000 in my village which is probably in the poorest part of maharashtra (northern maha nashik division) . They are also better beasts of burden and IMO produce better milk.  Cost will automatically come down when people start breeding them. 

 

[Singh bling]

you are forgetting it will be a gradual process. Cows who cannot provide milk will be replaced by buffaloes. 300 million are not suddenly going to be replaced. Your arguments hinge on there being a sudden change in animal husbandry which wont happen.

Speaking from my experience with my village. The buffaloes replaced the cows over a 8-9 year period from sat 1999 to 2007. Our village provides milk and meat of the buffalo to Surat and Mumbai.  I did not see cows simply roaming about. A milk cow especially lives for only a few years after she stops producing milk. Its the same for the whole bovine family. With regards to cost of buffelo. Well 50,000 is just way off the mark IMO. I know the price for a buffelo in my village (generic) is about 25,000 in my village which is probably in the poorest part of maharashtra (northern maha nashik division) . They are also better beasts of burden and IMO produce better milk.  Cost will automatically come down when people start breeding them. 

 

Cows will provide milk as long as you breed them which means cow population will keep on increasing , Just re read your post where you said that farmers will stop breeding them.1 villages example cannot be applied to entire country. 1 village  , different states can still sell cows to each other . While export of cows from India to any neighbour is banned 

Also  Maharashtra did not have law to slaughter to unproductive cows bulls oxen which came very recently. Maharashtra is close to South India where states like Kerala have no anti cow slaughter law So in present circumstance cows still can be replaced by Buffaloes . We are discussing hypothetical  situation where in almost all entire India cows will not be slaughtered legally or illegally

Are you 100% sure that all cows your village replaced did not end up slaughtered , legally or illegally?

[adi B]

Couldn't care less about who eats Beef or anything for that matter as long as the narrative is fair and unbiased .

 

The media makes it seem as if apocalypse has struck India and that things were all hunky dory prior to that.Its a joke is what it is.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

 

exactly

[Singh bling]

Eat beef, but don’t hurt sentiments of others: Kalraj Mishra

- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/eat-beef-but-dont-hurt-sentiments-of-others-kalraj-mishra/#sthash.1ADayJBa.dpuf

[amiret]

Mohan Bhagwat : The first Indian Vampire

"..drink cow blood but don't kill it ..."

RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat today said in Kenya, people sometimes drink blood of cows to survive, but they don't kill them or eat their meat.

In certain situations like famine, people in Kenya drink blood of cows to survive but they don't kill them or eat their flesh, he said while speaking at a function.

They insert a tube made of bamboo in the jugular vein of cows and suck blood. But in no way the animal is killed for consumption since there is a ban on cow killing in the African nation, said Bhagwat, a veterinary doctor by training.

[vvvslaxman]

Do we have a stat on how many states have banned cow slaughter  in India. Also stat on punishment if banned. How long they have been following that law?

Edited October 25, 2015 by vvvslaxman

[Singh bling]

Do we have a stat on how many states have banned cow slaughter  in India. Also stat on punishment if banned. How long they have been following that law?

Cow slaughter have different laws because it has different meaning.

 

1) Complete ban on  COW, Bull ,ox slaughter , Irrespective of age and very high punishment

2)Slaughter of cows , old bulls ox can be done  if they are over 10-15 years age and after obtaining fit for slaughter certificate , Punishment is not very severe

3)No ban

 

Most of the states are in category of Number 2 , BJP RSS  is taking many states to category 1 which is dangerous