A fast bowler India might have had

[Rightarmfast]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Very true....and that was the case with top international pacers even.

 

Fast bowlers were those who threatened the batsmen physically for a few years in their careers....so basically those pacers who bowled good bouncers and short balls ....which is not solely dependent on pace, but also on the ability to get bounce, the pitches on which they generally bowled, accuracy of the bowler while bowling bouncers, seam position etc. Country from which the bowler came from, size of the bowler, how the bowler was marketed, how good the bowler was, how bouncy he was....all played in a part in creating the myth of the fast bowler.

 

Wayne Daniel was a medium-fast bowler but since he came from the WI in the '80s, he was called fast. Even the great Malcolm Marshall dropped a lot of pace in the late '80s but not many talked about it. Garner was nothing more than fast-medium but very bouncy....no-one dared mention it.

 

It was all a matter of aura and impression and that is what prevailed then. If speedgun readings did not become regular, Pollack would have been known as fast.

 

Lack of sufficient TV coverage, lack of analytical data and imaginative, flowery journalism ..... created larger than life personas.

Even as late as late 90's and early 2000's, a lot of bowlers were hyped. Andrew Caddick, Allan Mullaly, Craig Mcdermott, Merv Hughes, Ntini etc. All these bowlers at their fastest were fast medium. But have been hyped as fast. Even the great Imran Khan was fast medium and not genuine quick. Akram for most part of his career would bowl fast medium or medium fast ( but surely was capable of bowling quick at times).

 

[chaman jhinga]

On 10/27/2015 at 6:10 AM, Wasim9211 said:

cricketics,

I get so used to send post, because other forum offer 50 /100 rupees per post which I just left koz they lost business and no longer available for

wasim type 'Rakhdu'.yes, why not, I will koz ,indian cricket fans not offer good or fake money either.

99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

Amre missing something for test matches after his debut century in southafrica so he become coach.Azher Mahmood

scored 2 century in his first 2 test in Pakistan vs southafrica plus through his test career he took 3 wkts per his test innings but he was dropped koz of dirty politics.it just happen,vinod kambli start his career with big bang 3 century including 2 DBL in his first 5 test, not able to continues with others, as well.

newzelanders R.Redmonds hits debut 163 in test never plays for his country because next test series was  4 mos later and john parker was originally test opener with GlenTurner [ married with indian women ] but he was injured and Redmond was selects in his place.

someother time about English captain start learing Gujrati Language[ who married Gujrati women later on]

I don't think what you said has any in truth in the last two lines. Maybe it is the opposite.

[jf1gp_1]

Every time I see such thread I remember kambli. Looking at his stats it seems injustice was done but those who saw him know he wasn't going anywhere. Off all the names taken in my opinion only ankola could have had a longish career , and even he wasn't quick 135kmph. I think he was injured in an accident which abruptly ended his career. Rest were all garbage. 

[Rightarmfast]

44 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Every time I see such thread I remember kambli. Looking at his stats it seems injustice was done but those who saw him know he wasn't going anywhere. Off all the names taken in my opinion only ankola could have had a longish career , and even he wasn't quick 135kmph. I think he was injured in an accident which abruptly ended his career. Rest were all garbage. 

Garbage is not the right word. A bowler can be made, or he can be broken. When correct guidance was never given, how can you call someone garbage? Thats harsh! 

Atul Wassan was certainly genuine quick and he was pretty good too. Harvinder Singh was also quick and was good. They were never nurtured. 

[jf1gp_1]

4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Garbage is not the right word. A bowler can be made, or he can be broken. When correct guidance was never given, how can you call someone garbage? Thats harsh! 

Atul Wassan was certainly genuine quick and he was pretty good too. Harvinder Singh was also quick and was good. They were never nurtured. 

Sorry harvinder singh wasnt quick, he struggled to swing the ball in canada when ganguly was taking wickets at will. I agree i shouldnt have used the word garbage considering they were representing India. I would say they were international class. 

[Rightarmfast]

12 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Sorry harvinder singh wasnt quick, he struggled to swing the ball in canada when ganguly was taking wickets at will. I agree i shouldnt have used the word garbage considering they were representing India. I would say they were international class. 

Umm, not sure. Javagal Srinath, in his interview a few months ago specifically called Harvinder Singh as being ' pretty rapid' in pace. He did look much closer to 140's I would say. @express bowling whats your opinion on Harvinder?

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Umm, not sure. Javagal Srinath, in his interview a few months ago specifically called Harvinder Singh as being ' pretty rapid' in pace. He did look much closer to 140's I would say. @express bowling whats your opinion on Harvinder?

Harvinder Singh was a fast bowler.

 

Around the same pace as Ishant Sharma.

 

He was also a hit-the-deck pacer but could swing the ball too.

 

I don't know why he did not get more chances.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

5 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Every time I see such thread I remember kambli. Looking at his stats it seems injustice was done but those who saw him know he wasn't going anywhere. Off all the names taken in my opinion only ankola could have had a longish career , and even he wasn't quick 135kmph. I think he was injured in an accident which abruptly ended his career. Rest were all garbage. 

Ankola was genuinely quick between 1989 and 1991. You probably remember him after that when he lost pace due to a chronic foot pain when he had to cut down his run up a lot.

 

There were many other good pacers after him. But, at that time, pacers were picked and ditched after very small stints. 

 

As it is, young players take time to develop after being introduced to international cricket. As India did not have a fast bowling culture, this issue was even more acute. The new talent needed a lot of backing, coaching and mentoring to get going. 

 

But, in most cases, we saw them dropped after a couple of matches. Vivek Rajdan took a fifer in the last test he played but was never recalled again. Now, that is really pathetic and unprofessional.

 

The way to go is to identify the players who have potential for international cricket and then give them a longish run.

 

This did not happen between 1989 and 2000. If this did happen, it is possible that we would have had 2 or 3 more fast bowlers. 

 

I am not saying that all the discussed names would have done well....they never do....but a couple would have.

[sandeep]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Ankola was genuinely quick between 1989 and 1991. You probably remember him after that when he lost pace due to a chronic foot pain when he had to cut down his run up a lot.

 

There were many other good pacers after him. But, at that time, pacers were picked and ditched after very small stints. 

 

As it is, young players take time to develop after being introduced to international cricket. As India did not have a fast bowling culture, this issue was even more acute. The new talent needed a lot of backing, coaching and mentoring to get going. 

 

But, in most cases, we saw them dropped after a couple of matches. Vivek Rajdan took a fifer in the last test he played but was never recalled again. Now, that is really pathetic and unprofessional.

 

The way to go is to identify the players who have potential for international cricket and then give them a longish run.

 

This did not happen between 1989 and 2000. If this did happen, it is possible that we would have had 2 or 3 more fast bowlers. 

 

I am not saying that all the discussed names would have done well....they never do....but a couple would have.

Razdan's 5-fer was on a green track in Sialkot IIRC - Greenbros thought that would give them an easy win, but didn't turn out that way thanks to the decent batting effort.    

 

Ankola prior to injury was an interesting prospect according to my uncle who had seen him play league cricket in Bombay - capable of getting surprising bounce from good length.   Injuries and, like you said, lack of proper grooming and development for pace bowlers was rare back then.  

[Rightarmfast]

I think Frank Tyson used to speak highly of Ankola. He did play in the Pakistan series of 89 where Waqar and Sachin made their debut. As far as I have read, he had genuine pace. 

 

[speedster]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

I think Frank Tyson used to speak highly of Ankola. He did play in the Pakistan series of 89 where Waqar and Sachin made their debut. As far as I have read, he had genuine pace. 

 

Yes he was supposed to be quick,  another one spoken about highly was Abey kuruvilla who was called rapid in the earlier part of his career,  many say that by the time he made his debut he was on the decline.  Contrast Mumbai bowling scene then with today when we have the likes of ultra slow sandhu opening the attack 

[Rightarmfast]

3 minutes ago, speedster said:

Yes he was supposed to be quick,  another one spoken about highly was Abey kuruvilla who was called rapid in the earlier part of his career,  many say that by the time he made his debut he was on the decline.  Contrast Mumbai bowling scene then with today when we have the likes of ultra slow sandhu opening the attack 

Yes, Kuruvilla was quoted to be quite fast but sadly, he only got a chance to play by the fag end of his career. Let's not forget Ajit Agarkar, he was a breath of fresh air when he made his debut for India.

[cricketfan28]

what happend to Atul "Pehelwan" Sharma?

[Vijy]

11 minutes ago, cricketfan28 said:

what happend to Atul "Pehelwan" Sharma?

He must be touching 200 kmph now.

[Vijy]

12 hours ago, express bowling said:

Harvinder Singh was a fast bowler.

 

Around the same pace as Ishant Sharma.

 

He was also a hit-the-deck pacer but could swing the ball too.

 

I don't know why he did not get more chances.

 

 

I only saw Harvinder's few ODI matches and he was definitely not as quick as Ishant (I'm assuming that you are referring to an Ishant who can bowl 140+ steadily). I agree that he was better at swinging - his main issue was a lack of control. Deserved more opportunities given that his ODI record was still very good when he was discarded.

[youngindia]

another myth making thread :)

 

Rajindher ghai was the only one who had some speed at the beginning of his career(based on sidhu's words) and a change in action

proved unproductive.

 

Kulkarni was sort of fast medium as i remember him.

 

rest were medium to medium fast mostly and hardly inspired confidence with their control..that's the bloody truth

 

we didnt lose any big giants....sorry

 

The ones with brains will evolve themselves as shown by a somewhat limited prabhakar who was insulted by everyone but somehow managed to pull out  a average career with pure effort

[youngindia]

On 6/25/2017 at 0:36 PM, prudent_kreeda said:

     There is tendency to hype  re: yesteryears  folks  because hardly few saw them bowl. 

     there were articles in magazines which were mostly followed and that created impression in our minds with some fantasy masala 

     added in. 

     I remember how a famous magazine had full coverage before the 79 world cup and there was so much written about Sandeep Patil 

     , something  like  hitting balls from marine drive gymkhana  to another nearby ground .  

      He was a big hitter no doubt , but after watching him on  TV , it was not like what was  was portrayed in those articles.

   

     I suspect similar was the case in these phaast  cases , 

     They bowled few overs of pure pace , not sure they really were accurate .

     Also those were pre - helmet era. Few hits batsmen would back away after seeing some one getting hit .

     The aura then grows even bigger . 

   

The batsmen r lot more genuine. sandeep was an exciting strokemaker for his era.

 

some of the sixes hit by yashpal in those days on huge grounds like australia would make for spectacular viewing.

 

The material about bowlers r largely nonsense.

 

Articles championing journeyman players are a problem till today because of journalist blissfully ignorant about first rate ability.

 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

17 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Sorry harvinder singh wasnt quick, he struggled to swing the ball in canada when ganguly was taking wickets at will. I agree i shouldnt have used the word garbage considering they were representing India. I would say they were international class. 

pace has nothing to do with swing.

[Cricketics]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

pace has nothing to do with swing.

Actually the less the pace the better it is for swinging the delivery. This is what I have noticed when i have bowled, the moment the pace goes up, it affects the swing.

 

 

[rkt.india]

17 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Actually the less the pace the better it is for swinging the delivery. This is what I have noticed when i have bowled, the moment the pace goes up, it affects the swing.

 

 

Yes, best pace for optimum swing is 120-130 but my reply was about he could not swing the ball, so, he was not quick as the poster was saying.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by rkt.india