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Singh bling Proficient

Singh bling

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Sekhar was fast for sure, but I dont know how fast. Really cant comment at this article.. Kapil definitely had a hand in spoiling a lot of player's careers. There was another Bihari fast bowler in the 83 team, who was quicker than Kapil and the lot. He must have been fast medium. Kapil made sure he never got a chance to play.

Looks like there is  conspiracy theory against Kapil

 

  1. Dear Mr.Prabhu,

    Mr. TA Sekhar is a fine bowler and a wonderful, multi-talented person and while I enjoyed the many aspects of his early cricketing career brought out by you, I beg to disagree on a lot of your viewpoints. TAS simply did not have the numbers to warrant a national recall. Perhaps he worked too hard in the 70s which impacted his fitness, but he really could not hold his own against his competitors in post-1982. The likes of Madanlal, Chetan Sharma, Prabhakar and some more domestic pacers consistently topped the bowling averages leaving TAS behind. Atleast Madan and Chetan won an abroad Test each in England. One wonders why TAS with his famed pace could not be more fruitful in the wickets column, whereas the Delhi pacers often played better quality opposition(Bombay, Karnataka, etc) in the final rounds of the Ranji each year. Take a look at this:

    1983-84
    BS Sandhu 30w @23.83
    C Sharma 28w @21.14
    S Valson 28w @25.39
    Madan Lal 24w @16.66
    RR Kulkarni 21w @23.80
    P Sunderam 19w @30.73
    TA SEKHAR 14w @32.00

    1984-85
    Madan Lal 27w @10.66
    RP Singh 25w @21.64
    RR Kulkarni 25w @26.52
    TA SEKHAR 20w @24.00
    NR Yadav 17w @19.17

    1985-86 (TAS - missed the season)
    P Sunderam 26w @18.69, Madan Lal 21w @22.33, S Valson 20w @13.20, NR Yadav 20w @23.80
    1986-87 (TAS - missed the season)
    P Sunderam 30w @21.76, NR Yadav 19w @36.10, RR Kulkarni 15w @20.93, RGM Patel 15w @24.20, BS Sandhu 15w @24.53, M Prabhakar 14w @23.50, Madan Lal 12w @23.00

    1987-88
    Madan Lal 19w @24.00
    S Valson 19w @24.68
    B Arun 18w @27.05
    P Sunderam 14w @18.21
    M Prabhakar 12w @25.66
    TA SEKHAR 3w @13.33

    1988-89
    M Prabhakar 39w @13.17
    SA Ankola 27w @20.18
    Madan Lal 26w @23.88
    TA SEKHAR 22w @20.54 v Rajasthan, Rlwys, Vidarb, UP, Maharash
    C Sharma 22w @21.27
    S Sensharma 22w @29.63
    B Arun 21w @24.19
    NR Yadav 20w @17.50

    1989-90
    AS Wassan 39w @14.07
    ST Banerjee 29w @14.58
    RR Kulkarni 29w @24.41
    J Srinath 25w @25.08
    D Vasu 21w @19.95
    P Sunderam 14w @24.35
    TA SEKHAR 9w @25.22

    Plus, TAS was too injury prone. His career stats show only a total of 6070 balls, while Madanlal had 5 times that number and even Atul Wassan had twice that.

    Career FC stats:
    TA SEKHAR 
    6070 balls 130w @27.73 SR 46.69 ECO 3.56
    Madanlal
    33105 balls 625w @25.50 SR 52.96 ECO 2.88
    Wassan
    14606 balls 290w @28.21 SR 50.36 ECO 3.36 

    Other than that West Zone game, did TAS rip apart any domestic batting line-up? Here are some key Ranji games he played and his performances were far from outstanding compared to peers.

    Ranji QF 1983
    Valson 2/51 Prabhakar 1/58 Sekar 1/131(27 ovs) Santoshkumar 3/201
    Ranji QF 1984
    Madan Lal 4/69 Sekar 0/55(12 ovs) V Siva 2/50
    Ranji SF 1985
    Kulkarni 3/71 Arun 4/123 Sekar 1/119

    It is amusing to see allegations of anti-TN bias when Srikkant with such a terribly mediocre average of 29.xx played no less than 43 tests in 80s alongside distinguished bats like Gavas(51.x), Amarnath(42.x), Vengsarkar(44.x), Azhar(45.x) etc.

    PS: By the way, I know the reason why TAS did not have more wickets, even at the pacer-friendly Chepauk wicket. TNCA often produced dustbowls for Venkat, L Siva, Vasudevan etc. For TNCA to produce spin-friendly wickets and then complain of selection bias against their fast bowler is both ridiculous and laughable.

    Regards,
    M

    Reply
     
     
  2. b16-rounded.gif

    Sir/ Madam:

    Thanks for reading and for the detailed comment.

    This story is not from the TNCA, it is written by me. Hence, TNCA has not stated any bias...

    Good statistical analysis but his story is not to be seen from mere statistical view point.

    The story states that at three moments in his career if he had had the right opportunities he
    could have been an international success story.

    In each of those important phases, he was doing enough to merit international selection despite all the statistics that you have shared(before writing the story, I was clued in on all of his performances/numbers as well as those of his contemporaries - the names that you have mentioned)

    I listened to each ball of his spell in those two tests in 1983 in Pakistan and it was a performance ( wickets/bowling analysis are not the only measure in all cases- there are exceptions) that did merit an extension of his services ( this was just prior to the WI tour)

    The same holds about his performance against England ( just prior to the Aus tour)

    I have not gone into the merits of whether his replacements performed
    (that was not the focus of the story)

    The story was about whether he did enough to merit selection on pure performance and the answer based on the story was yes.

    He was an out and out a fast bowler not seen before in India and hence his spells were normally
    expensive. Players with such pace also tend to be erratic. But on pitches that had pace, he was unplayable.

    This story focused on the aspect of TA Sekar not having got even that chance (others got extended opportunities in favourable conditions)to showcase himself
    despite being worthy enough at three phases in his career. In fact, his case should have been even more special because he was one of a kind bowler at that point of time especially in 85 and 85.
    And normally, a bowler of his kind needs backing. The others in that list were all normal line and length bowlers.

    ( in between these three periods, he may not have performed domestically/ he may have had injuries and that point is taken, but the question is did he merit selection on the three occasions mentioned in the story. And my answer backed by the facts - not statistical numbers- in the story is Yes)

    Thanks again for reading and for writing in such detailed manner with data.

    Truly appreciate.
    Prabhu

    Reply
     
     
  3. blank.gif

    Mr.Prabhu,
    Thank you for your kind response and thoughts expressed. You did not expect this response, did you? ;-)

    I'd say that out of the 3 phases you mentioned, 2 would be good fortune and TAS' best chance was in 1984-85 but he was overruled in favor of younger and more consistent bowlers with good performance. He was 33 when the west indies tour happened and I cannot think of many speedsters that age who will consistently bowl flat out at lightning pace and last more than a couple of series.

    If you look closely at TAS' career, he started pretty late for TN at age 24. By age 24, most pacers like Raju Kulkarni had a good 3-4 domestic seasons and were in already in national reckoning. He was 27 when he became TN's best paceman in 1982. He had essentially 2 good seasons where he was reckoned among India's leading pacemen. One wonders what happened in him from 1985-88 when he barely played any domestic game.

    80-81 K Bharath (TN) 20w @30.30 ; M Santosh (TN) 11w @33.45; TA Sekhar (TN) 7w @29.71; P Ramesh (TN) 6w @24.50
    81-82 S Valson (TN) 16w @26.81; K Bharath (TN) 14w @21.64; TA Sekhar (TN) 8w @21.12
    82-83 TA Sekhar (TN) 21w @21.80; R Madhavan (TN) 8w @16.62; B Arun (TN) 5w 33.60 ; M Santosh (TN) 4w 63.00

    Typically, Irani Cup is where you get to face the best of the nation's best and as TN's best paceman, he got his chance in the 82 Irani Cup. This is what happened.
    Irani Cup 82:
    Sandhu 5-110 (30 ovs), 2-34 (11 ovs) : 7w in 41 ovs
    Sekar 0-74 (24 ovs), 0-27 (11 ovs) : 0w in 35 ovs

    No matter the hype about his pace, you can see he was simply unable to get wickets. Sandhu bowled just as many overs and got 7 while TAS got 0. That is a HUGE performance disparity. We should remember here that both Sandhu and TAS had zero international experience here. So naturally Sandhu was taken to Pakistan to make his debut and who can dispute that choice?

    Pak 82-83:
    Sandhu 2-107, 0-56, 2-87 : Total 4w in 82 ovs
    Madan 3-101, 0-10, 3-129, 2-109 : Total 8w in 78 ovs
    Sekar 0-86, 0-43 : Total 0w in 34 ovs

    So after the Pak tour, 0w off 69 overs and he was rightly not considered. There is no question of him replacing Sandhu or Madan here since they have far better performances domestic or international. Madan/Sandhu had the same set of pathetic 10 fielders that TAS had so dropped catches shouldnt be an excuse.

    83-84
    TA Sekhar (TN) 14w 32.00
    V Siva (TN) 5w 24.60
    84-85
    TA Sekhar (TN) 20w 24.00
    K Arunkumar (TN) 16w 20.18
    B Arun (TN) 4w 40.75

    His best phase was in 84-85 where he got him the chance to play ODIs and FC games against England. He didnt do badly but at the same time, Ghai took 4-42 & 7-110 against England.

    Eng tour of India 85
    Sekar 3-74 2-50 0-36
    Ghai 4-42 0-37 7-110 

    Duleep Trophy SF
    Prabhakar 5-28 & 3-56 Ghai 5-33 Valson 4-84

    Duleep Trophy 85 final
    Ghai 3-72 Valson 2-47 Arun 2-41 & 5-84

    Ghai also in the same month, was in fine form in the Duleep Trophy. He was 24, TAS was 28, Kulkarni 22. Both of them were preferred for Irani Cup due to their age and performance while TAS was dropped.

    Irani Cup Oct 85
    Ghai 6-130 Kulkarni 3-93

    Ghai and Kulkarni did well in Irani and not surprisingly went for Aus tour. TAS had played Irani before, took no wickets and still toured Pak where he went wicketless. So it's not surprising selectors went with the other two instead of gambling with TAS a second time.

    ..contd

    Reply
     
     
  4. blank.gif


    ...contd from above.

    85-86
    B Arun (TN) 11w 40.45; M Gautam (TN) 10w 25.00 ; R Venkatesh (TN)7w 23.85 ; R Madhavan (TN) 6w 28.16

    86-87
    B Arun (TN) 4w 24.00 R Venkatesh (TN) 5w 33.00 AP Sureshkumar (TN) 7w 40.71
    This is really interesting - the best TN fast bowler had only 7 wickets. Perhaps by now, TNCA had decided to stop nurturing fast bowlers! Vasudevan, L.Siva, Venkatramana and Sunil Subramaniam would bowl 90% of the overs. Maybe this is the reason TAS decided to move to MP?

    87-88
    B Arun (TN) 18w 27.05
    RR Singh (TN) 17w 18.17
    TA Sekhar (TN) 3w 13.33
    K Arunkumar (TN) 5w 32.20

    TAS disappeared for 3 seasons and Bharat Arun/Robin Singh became TN's best pacemen. South Zone had 3 minnows Kerala, Andhra and Goa and had TAS played, he could have got easy pickings. By now, Arun also played for India(this disproves the theory that there is a bias against TN players!). So had TAS played this 3-year period, he would have made up sufficient numbers to stake a claim for India. 

    88-89
    TA Sekhar (MP) 22w 20.54
    B Arun (TN) 21w 24.19
    RR Singh (TN) 12w 21.33

    89-90
    D Vasu (TN) 21w 19.95
    B Arun (TN) 9w 18.22
    TA Sekhar (MP) 9w 25.22
    RR Singh (TN) 6w 26.16

    Overall in Ranji, these are all pacers who had LONGEVITY, recovered from injuries and had RELIABILITY to show whether they can be considered for India or not. TAS just about managed to reach 100+. Based on this evidence, it is silly to say that Kapil stopped TAS' international career. It is also a matter of conjecture how far TAS would have gone at the international level due to the same factor of longevity/consistency.

    Madanlal 351, Zaidi 348, Gattani 308, Dodda Ganesh 278, Iqbal Siddiqui 269, Ranadeb Bose 266, Chetan Sharma 261, Sanjay Bangar 235, Vinay Kumar 226, D Vasu 223, Atul Wassan 211, Paras Mhambrey 208, Lax Balaji 197, Venkatesh Prasad 175, Raju Kulkarni 185, Robin Singh 141, BS Sandhu 120, TAS 105, Kalli 102

    In light of all this, the questions for TAS fans would be : How many Tests would TAS have lasted at international at his flat-out pace? And who should he have replaced?

    http://prtraveller.blogspot.in/2013/08/ta-sekar-fastest-indian-bowler-of-1980s.html?m=1

From the comments section of that blog

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Singh bling Proficient

Singh bling

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Great.. but not just the bowlers mentioned before, Yuvraj's dad, Yograj was a pace bowler and Kapil was instrumental in spoiling his career. I have seen him saying the same in interviews too.. No smoke without fire?

Why would have Kapil destroy any fast bowler's career when everybody knows that fast bowler's hunt in pair Also did kapil had enough power to destroy anybody's career ? As far I know he was never in good terms with  with management . He lost captaincy after 1987 world cup despite taking India into Semi's 

 

As far Yograj Singh , the less said about him  the better He has many weird theories.

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express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted (edited)
 

In light of all this, the questions for TAS fans would be : How many Tests would TAS have lasted at international at his flat-out pace? And who should he have replaced?

From the comments section of that blog

Apart from Kapil, all our other pacers in the early and mid-80s were so bad that he could have replaced any of them.

Even a good 5 or 6 years at decent speed would have been better than those below-average trundlers. ( they did well only in England where there was prodigious swing and seam movement  on offer and failed miserably every-where else ) 

Many players who think that they are international material, lose interest and end up playing less FC when they realize that they don't have a realistic chance to play international cricket. In those days of abyssmal domestic cricket pays...it was even more common.

The top wicket-takers in Ranji Trophy are not necessarily international quality bowlers. We have seen Vinay Kumar, Rishi Dhawan, Joginder Sharma, Mohit Sharma etc. top the wickets list in recent times and a self-declared medium pacer lover like Dhoni finds it impossible to play them in test matches.

An accurate bowler bowling 120 k often succeeds against low quality domestic batsmen but get massacred when they play international cricket. many of those bowlers like Sandhu, Valson, Arun, Madan were slow-medium pacers...way below acceptable international pace and yet Madan and Sandhu played quite a bit of international cricket and returned with horrible figures in test matches.

T A Sekhar averages 27 in FC...and that is quite ok to succeed in  international cricket. Kapil Dev, Zaheer Khan and Srinath have similar FC averages. Even if he had lasted 5 seasons, it would have been better than what we had.

 

Edited by express bowling
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Rightarmfast Grand Master

Rightarmfast

Posted
Posted

Why would have Kapil destroy any fast bowler's career when everybody knows that fast bowler's hunt in pair Also did kapil had enough power to destroy anybody's career ? As far I know he was never in good terms with  with management . He lost captaincy after 1987 world cup despite taking India into Semi's 

 

As far Yograj Singh , the less said about him  the better He has many weird theories.

Kapil not only hated any bowler who could challenge his dominance in Indian cricket, he also hated players who were bigger than him. Classic case is his rivalry with Sunny Gavaskar. 

 

 

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express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://www.sportstaronnet.com/tss2545/25450300.htm

 

Read this article for the fast bowlers from india , of the past

Very nice article.

Here is an excerpt from it regarding TA Sekhar --

" Tamil Nadu's T.A. Sekar was also unlucky that he did not have a longer Test career. He could bowl at impressive speeds, and was desperately unlucky in his debut series - in Pakistan during the 1982-83 season - not to have scalped big names like Zaheer Abbas. Had the Indian slip cordon been more alert, he might have ended up with four or five wickets on his Test debut, and his career could have taken a wholly different course. "

 

 

Indian fielders were not used to genuine pace till 1994, after which they became used to Srinath's pace. Even Srinath suffered due to this issue for around 2 years at the beginning of his career.

Edited by express bowling
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mishra Mentor

mishra

Posted
Posted

People talk like Waqar was some seasoned veteran in this match, he was also making his debut in this series.

I still maintain Sachin was given Indian cap too soon, it is a huge credit to his character and his dedication to the game. Also credit to his upbringing.He became a super star but  always was grounded and humble.

If he had experience of one or two seasons in Ranjis and learnt the art of making big hundreds he would have been closer to Bradman's average than anyone else in history of the game.He had everything else.

Gavaskar had ability to score big hundreds but he was too slow in scoring because of his instinct of survival first. 

 

In his biography, It seemed Young Sachin wanted to debut a year earlier. But seniors intervened. In those days, Kapil Paaji was on his last legs. Our team needed a bat. Cant blame the selectors. They tried to protect him as long as they could.

After facing Pakis for first time he did realize how big the gap was between domestic and international bowlers.If anything old Sachin admits that his early exposure helped him to understand and adapt to it

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