BREXIT:Yes or No?

[mishra]

48 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Hmm.. not really interviews that was shown on CNN reflected that they regretted voting for. They even interviewed few Indians. Not unjustifiable statement. There was a statistical breakdown of the voting pattern. under 25 - 75% for IN, between 25 and 49 - 56% IN. The difference is not really huge 51 plus % for OUT 49 plus % for IN. If they redo the same polling again i am not so sure that will the same case . I know it is over like all elections. But this is the only poll where people are shown to regret about their voting right after the result was announced. Impact was so bad that even our 401 k got affected in US. Are they going to deport the millions of EU nationals ? Do they have path? 

There is no way you can gather that stats. Practically impossible. Actually, If you take London out then about 62% voted for leave. Still I dont get the basis of numbers which media is putting forward. Either London is madeup of all under 25 or every under 25 in rest of Britain voted in. If media/betting organisations/London City is to believe then All of them barring few exceptionssaid Remain having significant lead (10+-%). Infact every Leave voters and leaders went to bed accepting that they have lost.

But now i think Leave voters are confident that they are in majority. If there was any chance that people regretted leave, or these guys wont have to go to polls ie rely on vote of general public, I can guarantee you, These politicians will ignore referendum results on grounds that its not legal binding.

 

As far as deport and all is concerned. No. Leave campaign said it will rather give amnesty. They want a system to control immigration. They dont say that they dont want immigration.

 

Edited June 28, 2016 by mishra

[mishra]

36 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/28/news/companies/richard-branson-virgin-jobs-brexit/index.html?sr=fbmoney062816richard-branson-virgin-jobs-brexit0103PMVODtopLink&linkId=25991634

 

It probably killed lot of deals. It is what UK wanted. Let them enjoy. 

 

They are just making these noises so people may change their mind and they can overturn Brexit vote with another referendum or some other legal loophole.

Even today George Osborne is making stupid noises. These guys are now free to make deals with Commonwealth and rest of World. Pound for pound, UK provides bigger market to EU then EU is for UK. Public knows that EU was more benefitted from UK being in it and German wont like to put any restriction on UK as we are one of their biggest market.

[vvvslaxman]

21 minutes ago, mishra said:

There is no way you can gather that stats. Practically impossible. Actually, If you take London out then about 62% voted for leave. Still I dont get the basis of numbers which media is putting forward. Either London is madeup of all under 25 or every under 25 in rest of Britain voted in. If media/betting organisations/London City is to believe then All of them barring few exceptionssaid Remain having significant lead (10+-%). Infact every Leave voters and leaders went to bed accepting that they have lost.

But now i think Leave voters are confident that they are in majority. If there was any chance that people regretted leave, or these guys wont have to go to polls ie rely on vote of general public, I can guarantee you, These politicians will ignore referendum results on grounds that its not legal binding.

 

As far as deport and all is concerned. No. Leave campaign said it will rather give amnesty. They want a system to control immigration. They dont say that they dont want immigration.

 

They do that in US. Why not they can do in a smaller country.So it is totally believable you can gather breakdown easily. About ignoring will of the people is something that politicians will not think about regardless of how some have after thoughts. 

[vvvslaxman]

14 minutes ago, mishra said:

 

They are just making these noises so people may change their mind and they can overturn Brexit vote with another referendum or some other legal loophole.

Even today George Osborne is making stupid noises. These guys are now free to make deals with Commonwealth and rest of World. Pound for pound, UK provides bigger market to EU then EU is for UK. Public knows that EU was more benefitted from UK being in it and German wont like to put any restriction on UK as we are one of their biggest market.

Why is this a noise and not a serious issue? There are millions of British people work in European countries as well right.  Let us not pretend it was a referendum on economy not on "syrian refugees"  After series of terrorist attacks, it was easy for them to polarize people with immigration talks. On that front Trump may have probably played a part. Hyper nationalism, isolationism. For a country that colonized everyone immigration became a top issue. How ironical. 

[kosingh]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Why is this a noise and not a serious issue? There are millions of British people work in European countries as well right.  Let us not pretend it was a referendum on economy not on "syrian refugees"  After series of terrorist attacks, it was easy for them to polarize people with immigration talks. On that front Trump may have probably played a part. Hyper nationalism, isolationism. For a country that colonized everyone immigration became a top issue. How ironical. 

Syrian refugees? That was only part of it. Plenty of EU nations are rejecting Syrian refugees.  Britain could have done the same, and stayed in the EU.

 

But in addition to Syrian refugees, British are very agitated about the influx of Polish, Italian, Latvians, Eastern Europeans

[MechEng]

12 minutes ago, kosingh said:

Syrian refugees? That was only part of it. Plenty of EU nations are rejecting Syrian refugees.  Britain could have done the same, and stayed in the EU.

 

But in addition to Syrian refugees, British are very agitated about the influx of Polish, Italian, Latvians, Eastern Europeans

Weren't the Eastern Europeans ready to do menial jobs at a very low pay compared to Brits ? 

 

If they didn't have self entitlement issues, they would have been ready to do those jobs which would have reduced immigration and the need for Brexit vote wouldn't have happened.

Edited June 28, 2016 by MechEng

[Laaloo]

Thank You Ungrateful Immigrants

[kosingh]

10 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Weren't the Eastern Europeans ready to do menial jobs at a very low pay compared to Brits ? 

 

If they didn't have self entitlement issues, they would have been ready to do those jobs which would have reduced immigration and the need for Brexit vote wouldn't have happened.

EU nationals could take up residency in the UK and get claim easy benefits like income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance-- which was more than most would make in some of their own countries. For doing nothing in the UK, except pretending to search for work. A couple of years ago UK reduced these benefits to non-UK EU nationals to a maximum of 6 months.  But that's still every generous. UK giving too many benefits to too many useless unskilled unemployable Italians, Greeks, Latvians, Pols, etc.

Although the leave proponents certainly tapped into racist instincts of a large segment of British society, people should at least acknowledge that (i) certain EU countries and citizens were completely leeching away UK resources, (ii) The EU is a broken, bureaucratic system.

 

[goose]

11 hours ago, mishra said:

Why is it a bleak day? People voted on sovereignty. Its failure on part of unaccountable EU establishment which is making laws to benefits Europeans.

Existing Racist Conservative leaders have effectively finished any immigration of non whites on grounds of EU. Its ok for them when Europeans whites to travel,live and access to benefits in Britain but not OK for a colored person to come and live in UK.

 

Mervin King was very clear when he said the worst scaremongering statement was made by Chancellor George Osborne about post Brexit UK economy.

 

During last tenure, Theresa May, the new projected leader of Remain Campaign made closed colleges and expelled non-eu students in mass from UK without giving a single thought about fees and compensation. It was so unreasonable that even British courts criticised her move.

 

Dig into details and you will find so many laws and bodies created during last 10-12 years of UK governance that was to completely deter or finish immigration from non-eu countries. This is real racism.

 

Finally, Rule of thumb. Licester city is mostly non white well educated Indians. It voted for Brexit. Indians are not Chewt$ya. We know when a white English starts by saying he is not racist it clearly means he is racist.

 

The idea that millions of Brits voted for Brexit because they'd rather have skilled Nigerian doctors instead of unskilled Romanians is cuckoo to put it politely.

[BeautifulGame]

18 hours ago, mishra said:

No one regrets its. Infact people have become more vocal for Brexit. A lot of people I know and meet who didnt admitted that they will vote BREXIT on grounds of being branded as racist now see that even coloured people share same BREXIT VIEW.

 

Also media is making unjustifiable statement that most young people voted to remain and old people voted leave. I want to know how did they gather the info to make such claim. Whole of Britain apart from London and Scotland voted Leave. Simple as that

Not true.Cardiff Liverpool Manchester , Northern Ireland  and Newcastle all voted to Remain.

 

As for stats 

 

http://www.politico.eu/article/britains-youth-voted-remain-leave-eu-brexit-referendum-stats/

 

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/640yx5m0rx/On_the_Day_FINAL_poll_forwebsite.pdf

 

There are a large section of people who suddenly accept now regret their Brexit vote because the Leave campaign is starting to admit its lies .It didnt take hours for Farage to admit that 350 mil to NHS was a lie.Boris Johnson was already backtracking on immigration in his first coloumn on telegraph since Brexit.

 

As for no one regretting Brexit

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-bregret-leave-petition-second-remain-latest-will-we-leave-a7105116.html

 

It was vote decided by over 50 who have nothing to lose and now imposed on younger generation with lot to lose.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by BeautifulGame

[BeautifulGame]

14 hours ago, mishra said:

There is no way you can gather that stats. Practically impossible. Actually, If you take London out then about 62% voted for leave. Still I dont get the basis of numbers which media is putting forward. Either London is madeup of all under 25 or every under 25 in rest of Britain voted in. If media/betting organisations/London City is to believe then All of them barring few exceptionssaid Remain having significant lead (10+-%). Infact every Leave voters and leaders went to bed accepting that they have lost.

But now i think Leave voters are confident that they are in majority. If there was any chance that people regretted leave, or these guys wont have to go to polls ie rely on vote of general public, I can guarantee you, These politicians will ignore referendum results on grounds that its not legal binding.

 

As far as deport and all is concerned. No. Leave campaign said it will rather give amnesty. They want a system to control immigration. They dont say that they dont want immigration.

 

What u are assuming is that the voter age group that went to poll are spread even.It doesn happen like that in polls.Thats the flaw in your assumption

As for Controlled immigration , UK wont get free market access without free movement of people.Both Brussels and Merkel again confirmed that yesterday.

 

[BeautifulGame]

14 hours ago, mishra said:

 

They are just making these noises so people may change their mind and they can overturn Brexit vote with another referendum or some other legal loophole.

Even today George Osborne is making stupid noises. These guys are now free to make deals with Commonwealth and rest of World. Pound for pound, UK provides bigger market to EU then EU is for UK. Public knows that EU was more benefitted from UK being in it and German wont like to put any restriction on UK as we are one of their biggest market.

   Germany mainly export goods (Cars etc) to UK.They can cope with increased tarfiff. Whereas the major portion UK export is service sector particularly Financial sector which will suffer major impact if it leaves single market.

 

 For example currently London is the major market for currency trading and particularly biggest centre for trading the euro .Since UK is part of Euro it has been possible but once leaves EU then will also lose the right to clear euro-denominated securities and foreign currency trades as ECB will definitely insist on it .

Also now financial institutions that are set up in UK have the right to passport their, banking, investments and insurance services throughout the EuropeanUnion.But once UK exits then unless they negotiate a similar trade agreement , Banks have to move their offices to EU territory to have similar access throughout EU.It is practically too much red tape to get agreement with every country in EU to continue providing these financial services .Much easier to move to any EU country.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by BeautifulGame

[BeautifulGame]

16 hours ago, mishra said:

 

 

Finally, Rule of thumb. Licester city is mostly non white well educated Indians. It voted for Brexit. Indians are not Chewt$ya. We know when a white English starts by saying he is not racist it clearly means he is racist.

No it didnt.It was narrow but it voted remain

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-36618063

[mishra]

5 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

No it didnt.It was narrow but it voted remain

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-36618063

You can make boundry in boundry. Most towns/cities(Manchester, Liecester,Birmingham, Coventry) with non white immigrants either voted out or very narrow in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by mishra

[mishra]

5 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

What u are assuming is that the voter age group that went to poll are spread even.It doesn happen like that in polls.Thats the flaw in your assumption

As for Controlled immigration , UK wont get free market access without free movement of people.Both Brussels and Merkel again confirmed that yesterday.

 

Not really. All I see is gathering of skewed stats by media to serve their stand.  Not long back, they said iy will be hung parliament. It was a outright Conservative victory .  They said Remain in lead by 10%. That tpoo for past six months. That didnt happen. If they were not reliable n gathering those stats, how the same stats be called reliable now.

 

EU is toothless organization without France and UK. Germany may be economically better off  but still has a long way to go to be considered anywhere at par with either of the two. Do you think Juncker can hide behind his failures now. Both Merkel and Hollande know that in the end they will have to give a deal to UK else France is out too.

 

[mishra]

6 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

Not true.Cardiff Liverpool Manchester , Northern Ireland  and Newcastle all voted to Remain.

 

As for stats 

 

http://www.politico.eu/article/britains-youth-voted-remain-leave-eu-brexit-referendum-stats/

 

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/640yx5m0rx/On_the_Day_FINAL_poll_forwebsite.pdf

 

There are a large section of people who suddenly accept now regret their Brexit vote because the Leave campaign is starting to admit its lies .It didnt take hours for Farage to admit that 350 mil to NHS was a lie.Boris Johnson was already backtracking on immigration in his first coloumn on telegraph since Brexit.

 

As for no one regretting Brexit

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-bregret-leave-petition-second-remain-latest-will-we-leave-a7105116.html

 

It was vote decided by over 50 who have nothing to lose and now imposed on younger generation with lot to lose.

 

No one voted for 350 million to NHS. Its remain camp who have been lieing all along. FTSE has gained a lot of its losses within 4 days of BREXIT. People voted against uncontrolled immigration,  Brussels autocracy,  changing demography. EU is growing because it is giving free lunch to new joinee. You got to ask who is paying for that free lunch. And why

Edited June 29, 2016 by mishra

[mishra]

19 hours ago, laaloo said:

Thank You Ungrateful Immigrants

EU immigrants are hardworking people who do a lot of job which locals wont do at current rate when they factor in what they get from state if they dont work. Problem is in current system of EU equality means EU migrants  get all the benefits if they move their family to UK. Now it may sound reasonable then you have to know that UK government has a generous benefit system which classes most of labour class or non working as poor and takes good care of them. Very good care. Its so good that a lot of people just live their life on benefits.

[mishra]

11 hours ago, goose said:

 

The idea that millions of Brits voted for Brexit because they'd rather have skilled Nigerian doctors instead of unskilled Romanians is cuckoo to put it politely.

Does above stament justifies Current EU+UK regime which has completely stopped entry of a Nigerian doctor but will accept self employed Big Issue seller EU migrant claiming in work+ house+child+nhs+vat exemption.

[kosingh]

4 minutes ago, mishra said:

Does above stament justifies Current EU+UK regime which has completely stopped entry of a Nigerian doctor but will accept self employed Big Issue seller EU migrant claiming in work+ house+child+nhs+vat exemption.

Not sure what you are trying to say. Nigeria is not part of EU. Freedom of movement of labor doesn't apply to Nigeria. A doctor from an EU country can work in another EU country without a visa (provided of course he is qualified to practice in that country. 

 

Why would any country or union provide people from outside the country or union the same working rights that it would provide its own citizens? 

 

[mishra]

29 minutes ago, kosingh said:

Not sure what you are trying to say. Nigeria is not part of EU. Freedom of movement of labor doesn't apply to Nigeria. A doctor from an EU country can work in another EU country without a visa (provided of course he is qualified to practice in that country. 

 

Why would any country or union provide people from outside the country or union the same working rights that it would provide its own citizens? 

 

I will see if goose replies to that.

 

Exactly, Why should country give those benefits? Just so that rich can get even richer by employing these workers.. EU never said you needed to completely stop immigration of Nigerian doctors. David Cameroon and Theresa May did. 

 

Also, The cost of European single market is too much if you consider there is overall deficit. As far as Banking/financial sectors concerned, a deal is needed there.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by mishra