Green Track Awaits Team India at Sabina Park

[express bowling]

@muloghonto

 

Since we are discussing batsmen's opinion about pacers and pace off the pitch,  I would like to add an interesting anecdote by Gavaskar on this issue.

 

He was talking about Andy Robert's bowling style. Roberts used to bowl a couple of bouncers with the ball not landing on the seam. That did not hurry the batsmen that much and they sometimes felt that the wicket has slowed down. Then came a sizzling bouncer which was made to land on the seam and often got batsmen out or into all sorts of trouble.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Malcolm Merlyn

[Vilander]

15 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Whether its pathetically slow or not, you seem to have watched a different match. 114-115 was not his pace. Or I think you watched one single match in your lifetime and formed your opinion.

Venka Prasad used to bowl multiple deliveries in 114 range in an odd.  You seem to have a problem accepting it I wonder why.. Well I don't really

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, Garuda said:

Yes he was. I was not young enough to have missed it unfortunately. I wish I was. It was hard watching . Often I thought he was trying to give more flight to the ball to deceive the batsman

 

No 130 was his effort ball He mostly bowled in 125s. Sadly I have watched many an over where he would bowl entire overs of slower cutters even in a test match. He would bowl the 130 as a variation. Prasad is the only seamer to have done the unthinkable - bowl the quicker ball as the variation. I remember one ODI in Australia where he bowled almost an entire over of cutters (in Perth of all places). The next over Warne came down the wicket, treated Prasad like a spinner and hit him for a huge six to finish the match.

Lol same here...

[Vilander]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

Vilander...he sometimes used to bowl entire overs consisting of slower cutters.  It is possible that you remember one such over.

 

I think both Rightarmfast and you are right.

 

Prasad's normal pace was 126 k to 133 k as RAF is saying.

 

And his overs consisting of slower cutters were often bowled at   114 k to 120 k or thereabouts.

Yes I think you are right.. But I now want to ensure people know that venky used to bowl very slow.. He was the slowest front line pacer I have seen..

Edited July 30, 2016 by Vilander

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Yes I think you are right.. But I now want to ensure people know that venky used to bowl very slow.. He was the slowest front line pacer I have seen..

Balwinder Sandhu,  Manoj Prabhakar and Roger Binny were slower.   Have you seen  them bowl ?     Sandhu was the slowest I have seen.  Dodda Ganesh was another really slow pacer ( what an oxymoron ! )   

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Eye speed gun discussions on.

 

 

[Vilander]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Balwinder Sandhu,  Manoj Prabhakar and Roger Binny were slower.   Have you seen  them bowl ?     Sandhu was the slowest I have seen.  Dodda Ganesh was another really slow pacer ( what an oxymoron ! )   

Oh God nooooo I had blissfully forgotten all them..

[Vilander]

Hey but roger Binny was an all rounder and because of his cool run-up u gotta let his pace slide.. Lol

[Vilander]

Manoj had one century 102 If I  not wrong... Sandhu used to bat is it... Or am I remembering sodhi

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Manoj had one century 102 If I  not wrong... Sandhu used to bat is it... Or am I remembering sodhi

All these gems were better bats than Venky but they generally batted low down in test matches and were primarily chosen as bowlers.  Manoj was used as an opener in some ODIs though.  Even Madan Lal was on the slower side. Paras Mhambrey and mohanty were 2 other slowish seamers.

[Vilander]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

All these gems were better bats than Venky but they generally batted low down in test matches and were primarily chosen as bowlers.  Manoj was used as an opener in some ODIs though.  Even Madan Lal was on the slower side. Paras Mhambrey and mohanty were 2 other slowish seamers.

I remembered Mhambrey and Mohanty but they were a bit faster. Then there was abhey kuruvilla he was slow too but faster than prasad

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

I remembered Mhambrey and Mohanty but they were a bit faster. Then there was abhey kuruvilla he was slow too but faster than prasad

Kuruvilla was supposed to have been quicker  around 1989 to 1991. He was very tall too at around 6'6".  

 

He was chosen to play for India in 1997 and had lost hope and pace by that time.

[Vilander]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Kuruvilla was supposed to have been quicker  around 1989 to 1991. He was very tall too at around 6'6".  

 

He was chosen to play for India in 1997 and had lost hope and pace by that time.

Yes he did very well in one series as well..  I remember there was a series with kuruvilla Prasad srinath kumble nilesh kulkarni lol against Sri Lanka if I am not wrong.. Giants 's Lilliputs

Edited July 30, 2016 by Vilander

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Yes he did very well in one series as well..  I remember there was a series with kuruvilla Prasad srinath kumble nilesh kulkarni lol against Sri Lanka if I am not wrong.. Giants 's Lilliputs

yes....The height of our bowlers was very impressive in the late '80s and '90s.

 

Srinath, Prasad, Kuruvilla, Ankola, Wassan, Ganesh, Rajdan, Vaidya, Kumble, Kulkarni

[Mosher]

8 hours ago, Vilander said:

I remembered Mhambrey and Mohanty but they were a bit faster. Then there was abhey kuruvilla he was slow too but faster than prasad

I remember Mohanty for his bowling in that series vs Pak in Toronto. He was another trundler who had a weird bowling action but he bowled well in that series. Had a good outswinger.

[Rightarmfast]

Mohanty was pretty slow, around 110- 120k's, but because of his awkward action, immense swing and bounce, he used to look pretty quick. Kuruvilla was not all that slow at all. Infact, as a youngster he was more towards genuine fast to fast medium. 

I have no love for Prasad, but I have observed cricket for years and years, and especially the bowling speeds. Prasad was not a regular 110-115 bowler. He used to be in 120's. 

If you haven't seen a front line bowler that slow, then may I remind you of a bowler called Kapil Dev? He used to bowl at around 100-105k's by the end of his career, in the early 90's. How do I know his speed? Sharjah matches still used to have speed guns and they used to show the speed of one off balls, here and there!

[rkt.india]

17 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Not necessarily that bouncy fast bowlers need bouncy pitches to hurry batsmen. I saw Courtney Walsh hurrying Indian batsmen when West Indies toured India and we turned out rank turners for them in the early 90s. Bowlers who generate more vertical pace, obviously benefit more from hard bouncy pitches, just as bowlers who have more horizontal speed benefit more from grassy, skiddy pitch. 

But who generates more vertical pace and who generates more horizontal pace is more down to the actions (high arm action or round arm action for example), as well as height and position in the crease. 

 

The reason why that demarcation is irrelevant, is obvious from testimony from the witnesses in the argument: the batsmen. Evidence points towards the fact that plenty of batsmen call xyz fast bowler the fastest, despite the fact that some of these bowlers are not the fastest in horizontal speed, because to the batsmen, how quickly the ball comes to them is a factor of how quickly the ball moves through the air to them AND how quickly it rises on them. So if batsmen do not make that demarcation, its completely irrelevant for us to do so.

 

most of our batsmen in 90s used to be very poor at playing bounce. They were troubled by bounce at any pace and not because they were quick. I remember in 1993, WI rolled us out at 100 in Mumbai and Mumbai always had good bounce. That series was drawn 1-1. Benjamins were the quickest WI bowlers in that series and not Walsh. Ambrose wasn't there.

[Muloghonto]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

most of our batsmen in 90s used to be very poor at playing bounce. They were troubled by bounce at any pace and not because they were quick. I remember in 1993, WI rolled us out at 100 in Mumbai and Mumbai always had good bounce. That series was drawn 1-1. Benjamins were the quickest WI bowlers in that series and not Walsh. Ambrose wasn't there.

Err no, Walsh was the quickest bowler of that tour, not Benjamin. Walsh had significantly greater vertical speed while being indistinguishable from the Benjamins in lateral speed, making him quicker than the others.

 

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Err no, Walsh was the quickest bowler of that tour, not Benjamin. Walsh had significantly greater vertical speed while being indistinguishable from the Benjamins in lateral speed, making him quicker than the others.

 

is it possible to have a high vertical speed without high horizontal speed?

[jf1gp_1]

This WI team is $h!t, we are playing 5 batsman yet these guys are looking at another inning defeat. Test cricket will be dead in 10yrs.