Update:Rate Ganguly's All time XI & Sky sports team (Ramiz, Artheton, Warne) 90's and current XI .Pick yoursss........

[zen]

10 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

Infact my argument is based on evolution , am not saying that greats of the past would not be able to adjust his game , there is no way of knowing that . Am just comparing the finished products which is definitely better these days , the reason could be better fitness , better coaching , training facilities etc 

 

In that case, today's player will always be better than y'day per your book .... We might as well just pick from the current 11s 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, rett said:

In that case, today's player will always be better than y'day per your book .... We might as well just pick from the current 11s 

Simple.... A tennis champion from the 60s or 70s will not have the same power fitness and endurance of a Nadal or djokovic .... But you give Nadal and djokovic a wooden racquet they will still smack the ball around with unheard of speeds for that generation.

 

the athletes these days are nearly super human 

[jusarrived]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Players like Richards, sobers , Kapil dev, Imran, botham, hadlee could dominate in any era......

Not necessarily .

A lot has changed . for eg Pitches have bcom flatter  , which may have ended some of ATG bowlers careers much earlier . For a batsmen , not sure how many would have coped with just the scoring rates these days or playing 3 different formats , like I said earlier with technology at disposal every small weakness is exploited these days , there is no way to know if these batsmen where good enough to adjust let alone dominate . 

 

 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Simple.... A tennis champion from the 60s or 70s will not have the same power fitness and endurance of a Nadal or djokovic .... But you give Nadal and djokovic a wooden racquet they will still smack the ball around with unheard of speeds for that generation.

 

the athletes these days are nearly super human 

That assumption is based on time traveling not evolution .... If Nadal was born in 60s and 70s, he would not be as fit as today's Nadal and vice versa 

[jusarrived]

7 minutes ago, rett said:

In that case, today's player will always be better than y'day per your book .... We might as well just pick from the current 11s 

Yes , thats the reason I dont compare players from two different eras . 

[jusarrived]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Simple.... A tennis champion from the 60s or 70s will not have the same power fitness and endurance of a Nadal or djokovic .... But you give Nadal and djokovic a wooden racquet they will still smack the ball around with unheard of speeds for that generation.

 

the athletes these days are nearly super human 

This is pretty much it . I dont like comparing , but if I have to its pretty straightforward imo 

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, rett said:

That assumption is based on time traveling not evolution .... If Nadal was born in 60s and 70s, he would not be as fit as today's Nadal and vice versa 

Exactly that is my point.....You can compare the fastest bullock cart or the fastest sports car but when you compare a bullock cart with a sports car it is a no contest

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, jusarrived said:

Not necessarily .

A lot has changed . for eg Pitches have bcom flatter  , which may have ended some of ATG bowlers careers much earlier . For a batsmen , not sure how many would have coped with just the scoring rates these days or playing 3 different formats , like I said earlier with technology at disposal every small weakness is exploited these days , there is no way to know if these batsmen where good enough to adjust let alone dominate . 

 

 

Every era has their own challenges, They are called ATG cause they faced n overcome those challenge

Those time wkts were so conducive for bowlers.

Bats have become huge and ground have become smaller.

Lets not forget the era without helmet where the 1st thing they thought before making runs was saving their lifes.

 

 

Imagine some one like Richards, kapil , sobers with these bats on Chinnaswamy or wankhade

 

Vice versa today player have their own challlenges. Too much cricket, adjusting to format, technology which is also helpfull

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Every era has their own challenges, They are called ATG cause they faced n overcome those challenge

Those time wkts were so conducive for bowlers.

Bats have become huge and ground have become smaller.

Lets not forget the era without helmet where the 1st thing they thought before making runs was saving their lifes.

 

 

Imagine some one like Richards, kapil , sobers with these bats on Chinnaswamy or wankhade

 

Vice versa today player have their own challlenges. Too much cricket, adjusting to format, technology which is also helpfull

That is why my pick is always from 90 onwards because the names I have picked have evolved and adapted.

 

Case can be made for some 80 players as well like Viv,Imran,Kapil,Botham,Holding etc etc but players from 30's and 50's....no way

[zen]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

Exactly that is my point.....You can compare the fastest bullock cart or the fastest sports car but when you compare a bullock cart with a sports car it is a no contest

It is not bullock carts vs cars though. it is cars vs cars .... and a Ferrari F40 for example would be highly valued today as it was when it was launched 

[maniac]

Steyn bowls to those bats and picks bucket loads of wickets....Imagine how good he is and how good must be the batsmen facing him.

 

People call Anderson a trundler because he bowls 80mph but he would have been unplayable had he come from a previous decade and would have picked a 100 more cricket as he would have played pretty much all games in England and Australia.

 

Bradman's time,strongest team was England

 

Sachin's time,even Zimbabwe had Heath Streak who has 300+ test wickets at a mighty impressive average....Srilanka was a strong contender who were not even playing international cricket till mid-80's and became a strong force in the mid 90's and were minnows till then.

 

Similarly for Non-Indian players Pakistan pre 70's was a joke just like India and Newzealand....compare these teams to what they became after the 80's.

 

South Africa did not play cricket througout the 80's and from 1991 onwards since their first game,I never remember a single weak X1 fielded by them.

 

Australia probably had the greatest team of all time only comparable with WI.

 

WI England declined in the 90's but they were still no minnows,they still were very competitive.

 

 

 

[jusarrived]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Every era has their own challenges, They are called ATG cause they faced n overcome those challenge

Those time wkts were so conducive for bowlers.

Bats have become huge and ground have become smaller.

Lets not forget the era without helmet where the 1st thing they thought before making runs was saving their lifes.

 

 

Imagine some one like Richards, kapil , sobers with these bats on Chinnaswamy or wankhade

 

Vice versa today player have their own challlenges. Too much cricket, adjusting to format, technology which is also helpfull

you said these guys would dominate , thats where I disagree . I just wudnt be so sure . 

 

 

[zen]

55 minutes ago, maniac said:

Steyn bowls to those bats and picks bucket loads of wickets....Imagine how good he is and how good must be the batsmen facing him.

 

People call Anderson a trundler because he bowls 80mph but he would have been unplayable had he come from a previous decade and would have picked a 100 more cricket as he would have played pretty much all games in England and Australia.

 

Bradman's time,strongest team was England

 

Sachin's time,even Zimbabwe had Heath Streak who has 300+ test wickets at a mighty impressive average....Srilanka was a strong contender who were not even playing international cricket till mid-80's and became a strong force in the mid 90's and were minnows till then.

 

Similarly for Non-Indian players Pakistan pre 70's was a joke just like India and Newzealand....compare these teams to what they became after the 80's.

 

South Africa did not play cricket througout the 80's and from 1991 onwards since their first game,I never remember a single weak X1 fielded by them.

 

Australia probably had the greatest team of all time only comparable with WI.

 

WI England declined in the 90's but they were still no minnows,they still were very competitive.

You cannot create environments. You play in the ones that are presented to you .... and every era has its own set of challenges 

 

There is over lapping that goes through the generations for e.g. 

• Bradman retired in 48. Sobers debuted in 54 
• Sobers retired in 70s. Richards and Gavaskar debuted in 70s
• Gavaskar retires in late 80s and Richards retired in late 80s or early 90s. Tendulkar and Lara debuted at that time
• and so on 

 

And Gavaskar is technically as good as anyone in the game .... And we all know what Gavaskar thinks about Sobers .... in fact, they both played in the same game if I m not wrong vs Aus. How Sobers batted is stuff of legends .... so your theory does not hold for ATGs 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by zen

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

You cannot create environments. You play in the ones that are presented to you .... and every era has its own set of challenges 

 

There is over lapping that goes through the generations for e.g. 

• Bradman retired in 48. Sobers debuted in 54 
• Sobers retired in 70s. Richards and Gavaskar debuted in 70s
• Gavaskar retires in late 80s and Richards retired in late 80s or early 90s. Tendulkar and Lara debuted at that time
• and so on 

 

And Gavaskar is technically as good as anyone in the game .... And we all know what Gavaskar thinks about Sobers .... in fact, they both played in the same game if I m not wrong vs Aus. How Sobers batted is stuff of legends .... so your theory does not hold for ATGs 

Also i would add a few more

1.Bradman career got haulted for 10 yrs due to world war 

2.Most cricketers records in Kerr packers world series is still not considered where as it took over International cricket at that time. And it was high level of cricket.

3. Practice facilities, i have seen one video where bradman n his team use to pratice on ships while on travel.

4. When bradman was counter with body line bowling how he countred it. How he countered that that short pitch stuff by backing away and hitting the ball. Which he further taught to aussie batsman in 80s to counters windies attack .In modern era with all facilities and technology we still have many batsman like Raina n other who have taken life time to figure out how top play it with helmets

 

I was also very ignorrant about past player but then i saw watever stuff available of youtube and i was totally amazed by the skills these guys possesed. I blew away with skill set sobers had , never seen someone like that. 

Ill refer all to check stats, videos, features about these players before making up your mind. There is a lot of Amazing stuff 

[zen]

 

 

Sobers 254 vs Aus 

 

World 11 had players such as Gavaskar, Zaheer Abbas, Engineer, etc. .... Interesting to see how Sobers smashes a young and pacy Lillee 

 

In the first inning, Sobers got a duck. In the 2nd inng, W11 started around 100 runs behind. Sobers played this knock and W11 went on to win it  .... If I m not wrong, Lillee had taken 8/29 earlier in the series 

 

Sobers   

 

PS Drunk on Sobers (people are talking about Sobers batting like fans talk about a Ranjikant or Bruce Lee film) .... and the inng was played in the final leg of his career 

 

 

For those who don't know what Lillee can do:

 

 

^ How everyone's instinct is to stay on the backfoot

 

 

 

^ Viv in trouble with a barrage of bouncers. Brilliant set up by Lillee

 

 

 

^ Gavaskar gone 

 

 

Lillee in Aus has 231 wkts in 44 tests

Edited August 4, 2016 by zen

[Sid_SuhaiL]

Sehwag

Hayden

Ponting (c)

Tendulkar

Lara

Kallis

Gilchrist (wk )

Wasim

Warne

Ambrose

Steyn 

 

Reserve batsmen : Dravid , G.Smith

Reserve Bowlers : McGrath , Donald 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Sid_SuhaiL

[MCcricket]

My 11 for test hmmm

Gavaskar

Sehwag

Richard

Lara

Tendulkar

Kallis

Sobers

Gilchrist

Warne

Ambrose

Thomson

 

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, jusarrived said:

you said these guys would dominate , thats where I disagree . I just wudnt be so sure . 

Its not only the skill.....the main thing what makes an ATG is the attitude. All ATG had great mental strength, passion and worked really hard towards their game. Their self confidence was different from others. Thats an individual thing that doesnt look era and when and whatever challenge u get its this attitude that gets u over it. Lets take modern day- What takes virat kohli ahead of extremely talented guys like Rohit, Akmal, shehzad, bravo, Shaun marsh its his attitude and passion.  Virat with his attitude would have been a champion in any era coz champions know how to over come any era. 

 

Take Denis lillee for Instance - the guy had a stress fracture after his 1st few few series due to his all over the place action and that time stress fracture was unheard of. Then how he worked hard , how he remodeled his action to one of the best bowling action says something about his attitude not era. The kind of hard work he putted in on his fitness and he didnt have the facilities of gym, trainers and dieticens at that time. Umesh yadav May have all the pace n talent but the guy lacks attitude n aggression of steyn n lillee. Dennis Lilee had 70 wkts in world series which are even considered if it had been he would have been the fastest to 400 wkts. 

 

 You have to watch this understand what champions are made of. This guys was a Maniac. 

 

Another Example- Imran khan who came in as military medium pace bowler who just bowled inswing , became one the quickest bowler with just hard work. How he also remoduled his action and worked on his pace. Here someone like Irfan had an excuse that he lost his swing by just increasing pace. Hard work n passion had nothing to do with era. 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[MCcricket]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Every era has their own challenges, They are called ATG cause they faced n overcome those challenge

Those time wkts were so conducive for bowlers.

Bats have become huge and ground have become smaller.

Lets not forget the era without helmet where the 1st thing they thought before making runs was saving their lifes.

 

 

Imagine some one like Richards, kapil , sobers with these bats on Chinnaswamy or wankhade

 

Vice versa today player have their own challlenges. Too much cricket, adjusting to format, technology which is also helpfull

This picture is a misnomer, the reason the bats look so big n thick these days is because they uncompressed wood, n light but earlier days bat actually had more wood n were greatly compressed, the other major factor beside the width of bats is batting on uncovered pitches

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, Lala said:

no pakistani ??   Inzi or Wasim should have been there, even Misbah doing great in Test compare to some average batsmen like Hayden, Cook.

hayden, cook average batsmen