Greg Chappell - Scapegoat or Culprit?? Other side of the story

[Ankit_sharma03]

29 minutes ago, Texan said:

Chappell is being unnecessarily willified for the failures of the team during that phase. He was a nice and convenient scapegoat to find when the senior members of the team were really to blame. Ganguly never took fitness seriously, he was also going through a wretched phase as far as his performances were concerned. Captaincy wise he was doing ok, but with Dravid as an option waiting and to me an even better option than Ganguly for captaincy, Chappell was right in asking Ganguly to step down. But the politician that resides inside Ganguly made a big deal out of it and tried to paint Chappell as a villain. The "gang" culture among the seniors and regulars in the team ensured tha he got the support of those who were just happy to toe his line.

 

Honestly, I felt a coach like Chappell is needed. Coaches since then have only been mute spectators playing to the whims and fancies of the captain. Even a strong personality like Duncan Fletcher, after the Chappell lesson, was just acting as a puppet in the hands of Dhoni. When players say that the coach must fit into the culture, all they are asking for is that the coach must just play along with what the seniors are dictating to him, take his paycheck and not utter a word. 

 

Spot on. 

The things should be player take their efforts to next level rather asking coach to adjust to their comforts. That is where Subcontinent coaching becomes tough coz people expect them to give result all the time but players are not ready to put extra efforts to take their game to next level. Its like teacher being pressurized for students results and students are not willing to study. We all know what kind of expectation were bieng laid of GURU GREG and thats where he lost his patience and calm and subsequently ego, clashes, fight, tough task master all followed.

For me coach didnt fail the player, the players failed themselves. The worst part was they all represented him as figure who destroyed indian cricket where as teams poor perfomance was collective failure. Chappell wasnt responsible for poor domestic structure or corruption in bcci and even for players poor fitness. 

 

How can we make a lie truth by saying that again n agian n again till we forget it was a lie. Chappell destroying indian cricket was said again n again by everyone till everyone forgot what was our condition before him and mostly it was player who played on ground not coach. 

Edited August 7, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

36 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

totally agree with this post. this is problem with most indians whenever they assume positions of power. completely unaccountable and act like the world owes them a favor 

Also humans are given god status which makes their every act as right and people believe there cannot be anything wrong with them. So if you question them you are either a hater or someone jealous whereas criticism is meant for improvement 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Ian Chappell- 

Kumble has a couple of advantages over Chappell. Firstly, he's in sync with the Indian mentality, and secondly, he doesn't have to deal with star players nearing the end of their careers.

Australian selectors are not averse to dropping a star player - even the captain - if they think his form is waning. There's virtually no chance an Indian selector will demote a star player. Indian selectors, perhaps wary of the potential backlash, are content to wait patiently until the star retires, even if it's obvious the team is in dire need of regeneration.

The officials who appointed Chappell as coach said they wanted to introduce an Australian mentality into Indian cricket. That was the last thing India really wanted, what with Sourav Ganguly and Sachin Tendulkar nearing the end of their careers. When Chappell attempted to apply a bit of Australian logic to the situation, the outcry was deafening.

If Kumble decides to continue in the role there's a chance he'll find out if India treats its coaches differently to star players. If there are hiccups along the way, will there be the same reluctance to sack a luminary coach as there is to demote a star player?

 

Full article- http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1029475.html

[philcric]

In the case of Saurav it was very personal, so it's okay to not take his views regarding Chappell at face value.

 

But so many other Indian cricketers including Sachin, Laxman, Bhajji, Zaheer, Sehwag criticised Chappell openly. Only Dravid was a little diplomatic. Bhajji is a bit of a loose cannon but players like Sachin, Laxman, Zak and Sehwag never whined or complained or attacked someone when they were dropped or something. Why would such highly respected and credible players gang up against a former coach after almost 20 years? I see no reason why Sachin would lie (and include his wife Anjali in it) about Chappell in his autobiography. 

 

Saying that these players have something against Chappell just because he wanted them to work harder and get fitter is a blind guess and honestly quite ridiculous.

[philcric]

Read this ...

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/795845.html

 

Quote

"Just months before the World Cup, Chappell had come to see me at home and, to my dismay, suggested that I should take over the captaincy from Rahul Dravid," Tendulkar writes in his autobiography Playing It My Way, which will be released on November 6. "Anjali [Tendulkar's wife], who was sitting with me, was equally shocked to hear him say that 'together, we could control Indian cricket for years', and that he would help me in taking over the reins of the side.

Quote

 

"I suggested to the BCCI that the best option would be to keep Greg back in India and not send him with the team to the World Cup. That is not what happened, of course, and the 2007 campaign ended in disaster."

Quote

Tendulkar also writes that Chappell had a tendency to take the limelight when India played well, but not otherwise. "I also remember that every time India won, Greg could be seen leading the team to the hotel or into the team bus, but every time India lost he would thrust the players in front. In general John and Gary always preferred to stay in the background, but Greg liked to be prominent in the media."

 

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, philcric said:

In the case of Saurav it was very personal, so it's okay to not take his views regarding Chappell at face value.

 

But so many other Indian cricketers including Sachin, Laxman, Bhajji, Zaheer, Sehwag criticised Chappell openly. Only Dravid was a little diplomatic. Bhajji is a bit of a loose cannon but players like Sachin, Laxman, Zak and Sehwag never whined or complained or attacked someone when they were dropped or something. Why would such highly respected and credible players gang up against a former coach after almost 20 years? I see no reason why Sachin would lie (and include his wife Anjali in it) about Chappell in his autobiography. 

 

Saying that these players have something against Chappell just because he wanted them to work harder and get fitter is a blind guess and honestly quite ridiculous.

Why did Chappell have major problems with the Aussie cricketers when he was associated with the Australian team  ( and was perhaps banned from the players' dressing room )  ?  That needs to be answered too as the Aussie players did not have a culture clash with him.

[philcric]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Why did Chappell have major problems with the Aussie cricketers when he was associated with the Australian team  ( and was perhaps banned from the players' dressing room )  ?  That needs to be answered too as the Aussie players did not have a culture clash with him.

I wanted to mention this as well, but I wasn't sure if it was Chappell or Buchanan who was booted out of the Aus players' dressing room.

 

As far as I know Chappell was not popular with any of the teams he coached. He also didn't get to be an international coach after India (not sure if it's by choice). How can any 'fair' coach have problems with so many players of his own team, some of whom are ATGs, Indian ATGs and true gentlemen.

 

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, philcric said:

I wanted to mention this as well, but I wasn't sure if it was Chappell or Buchanan who was booted out of the Aus players' dressing room.

 

As far as I know Chappell was not popular with any of the teams he coached. He also didn't get to be an international coach after India (not sure if it's by choice). How can any 'fair' coach have problems with so many players of his own team, some of whom are ATGs, Indian ATGs and true gentlemen.

 

No coach. no matter how good, can succeed in the real world if he does not have the trust of the players he coaches.  People  who think otherwise are being too theoretical.

[philcric]

In terms of results India actually did pretty well under Chappell except the 2007 WC. From memory, we became a very good chasing side in ODIs (17 consecutive successful chases), had away test series wins in WI and Eng etc., and we were always good at home anyway. Chappell may have been good with some of his ideas and strategies.

 

But there were some serious issues w.r.t to things like players-coach relationship, honesty, integrity, communication etc. From the information we have, it looks almost certain that Chappell was at fault more than the players.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

48 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Why did Chappell have major problems with the Aussie cricketers when he was associated with the Australian team  ( and was perhaps banned from the players' dressing room )  ?  That needs to be answered too as the Aussie players did not have a culture clash with him.

 

1 hour ago, philcric said:

In the case of Saurav it was very personal, so it's okay to not take his views regarding Chappell at face value.

 

But so many other Indian cricketers including Sachin, Laxman, Bhajji, Zaheer, Sehwag criticised Chappell openly. Only Dravid was a little diplomatic. Bhajji is a bit of a loose cannon but players like Sachin, Laxman, Zak and Sehwag never whined or complained or attacked someone when they were dropped or something. Why would such highly respected and credible players gang up against a former coach after almost 20 years? I see no reason why Sachin would lie (and include his wife Anjali in it) about Chappell in his autobiography. 

 

Saying that these players have something against Chappell just because he wanted them to work harder and get fitter is a blind guess and honestly quite ridiculous.

 

54 minutes ago, philcric said:

Read this ...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/795845.html

All of these are true and said time n again, the idea about my post was to see the other side of the coin. There are always two sides. Chappel has got his share of blame and he was wrong at his place its true . 

But there was another aspect to the story as well, we have discussed where he was wrong m only quotting where he was right. Asking player to give extra effort on field and fitness was no wrong . Its was players who didnt do it so thats were even players were wrong and all of them suffered in future. 

 

N My biggest question is was putting everything on one Man right or convenient. Chappell tenure may be extremely controversial but saying he destroyed Indian cricket was rubbish. We were like West indies of 1980s and he didnt make us West indies of today. Players perfomed bad and BCCI was the worst in all of this But to put the blame on one guy to escape their own problem was wrong. It was player who didnt work hard on fitness and it was players who didnt perform in ground. 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

All of these are true and said time n again, the idea about my post was to see the other side of the coin. There are always two sides. Chappel has got his share of blame and he was wrong at his place its true . 

But there was another aspect to the story as well, we have discussed where he was wrong m only quotting where he was right. Asking player to give extra effort on field and fitness was no wrong . Its was players who didnt do it so thats were even players were wrong and all of them suffered in future. 

 

N My biggest question is was putting everything on one Man right or convenient. Chappell tenure may be extremely controversial but saying he destroyed Indian cricket was rubbish. We were like West indies of 1980s and he didnt make us West indies of today. Players perfomed bad and BCCI was the worst in all of this But to put the blame on one guy to escape their own problem was wrong. It was player who didnt work hard on fitness and it was players who didnt perform in ground. 

 

I was under the impression that fans who follow cricket closely , as well as the cricketing fraternity, are aware of the fact that Chappell could have added a lot of value as coach if not for his man-management skills.

 

I will tell you an interesting anecdote.  Ganguly hosts a reality show nowadays in Bengali and is very successful at it.  He was asked by one of the participants about the best coach he has worked with ...and he replied,  " Greg Chappell ". 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, express bowling said:

I was under the impression that fans who follow cricket closely , as well as the cricketing fraternity, are aware of the fact that Chappell could have added a lot of value as coach if not for his man-management skills.

 

I will tell you an interesting anecdote.  Ganguly hosts a reality show nowadays in Bengali and is very successful at it.  He was asked by one of the participants about the best coach he has worked with ...and he replied,  " Greg Chappell ". 

Around the world they would be in India , the fact is we like see things black n white no one is ready to see the grey side . You are either a hater or blind fan. 

Talk to many ex-cricketers n peopel they ll say chappell destroyed Indian cricket and we saw the worst phase under him as most of them have forgotten 90s. Shastri was one ex-cricketer who supported Chappell.

Chappell would have enjoyed working with dhoni n kohli for sure. 

 

M sure ganguly would have been sarcastic as he is......

IF Chappell had his issues with indian and Aussie player so did our man Sourav with wright at end of his phase, Chappell, buchanan. 

 

Both problem childs in one room 

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Around the world they would be in India , the fact is we like see things black n white no one is ready to see the grey side . You are either a hater or blind fan. 

Talk to many ex-cricketers n peopel they ll say chappell destroyed Indian cricket and we saw the worst phase under him as most of them have forgotten 90s. Shastri was one ex-cricketer who supported Chappell.

Chappell would have enjoyed working with dhoni n kohli for sure. 

 

M sure ganguly would have been sarcastic as he is......

IF Chappell had his issues with indian and Aussie player so did our man Sourav with wright at end of his phase, Chappell, buchanan. 

 

Both problem childs in one room 

Black or white assessments are often the result of sensationalism by the media. 

 

Ganguly may or may not have been sarcastic with that reply but  I  have heard him talk about Greg often and he never really undermined him completely as a coach after he gave up cricket.

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Black or white assessments are often the result of sensationalism by the media. 

 

Ganguly may or may not have been sarcastic with that reply but  I  have heard him talk about Greg often and he never really undermined him completely as a coach after he gave up cricket.

Subcontinent cricket is about that, let gambhir bhajji yuvraj announce their retirement and they ll soon come out against dhoni with statements or their biography. We love putting everything on one person. 

 

He shouldnt even as he was a huge helping hand to him before 2003 tour down under. 

Edited August 7, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Subcontinent cricket is about that, let gambhir bhajji yuvraj announce their retirement and they ll soon come out against dhoni with statements or their biography. We love putting everything on one person. 

 

He shouldnt even as he was a huge helping hand to him before 2003 tour down under. 

Ankit...I appreciate your point.  Just saying that what players say and what is reported are sometimes a bit different.

 

Anyway, Indian cricket has evolved in the right direction and we are seeing the current players putting in a lot of effort, running hard between wickets, bowling with more zeal, fielding like there is no tomorrow and playing to win.  That is a big plus.

[MCcricket]

Where Greg Chapel lost respect was he brought out private discussion between him n players to public n shared one players views against others, double speak , wranglings he used Dravid also during that period, he might have had an idea but his method n integrity , n moral standing was what n why players hated him

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 hours ago, MCcricket said:

Where Greg Chapel lost respect was he brought out private discussion between him n players to public n shared one players views against others, double speak , wranglings he used Dravid also during that period, he might have had an idea but his method n integrity , n moral standing was what n why players hated him

I dont remember when he brought a private discussion in public, email was leaked by bcci. Was there any incident??? May be i must have missed.

 

If there was anyone who came in public 1st that was in an interview to bhogle - that he was asked to step down

"I can tell you that before this match I was asked to step down as captain," Ganguly 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/zimvind/content/story/219375.html

 

[MCcricket]

The most important thing for a manager or captain or boss is to have a heart n not treat people under u as objects, that's what Greg did, he had pre conceived notions n thoughts instead of understanding the players, team culture he tried to get his objectives, ruthlessly in a manipulative n underhand way, quite a few players have mentioned how talks between him n Greg were not kept private but used against them n players did not trust him n when u loose trust u loose everything, he had mostly 60 to 70% of team riled up not just one or two players, so it means he was a bad man manager, plus a bad coach, the team n team culture took a serious back step under his regime

[jusarrived]

16 hours ago, express bowling said:

Black or white assessments are often the result of sensationalism by the media. 

 

Ganguly may or may not have been sarcastic with that reply but  I  have heard him talk about Greg often and he never really undermined him completely as a coach after he gave up cricket.

Thats Gangluly for you , am not a big fan of Chappel ..but no one knows to handle the media better than Dada . 

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Thats Gangluly for you , am not a big fan of Chappel ..but no one knows to handle the media better than Dada . 

Handling the media properly is very important.