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Greg Chappell - Scapegoat or Culprit?? Other side of the story


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Posted (edited)

We have seen all indian players come out and criticise greg after year of tenure in open. But here is documentry showing the other side of story

 

Note: Any documentary can show any one in good or bad in poor light. So not giving my opinions on this . People who wanna have proper discussion please reply , avoid blind opinions. Lets see things in perspectives 

 

Post Chappell era players like Ganguly,Laxman, Sachin, Bhajji, zaheer, yuvraj , sehwag have all come out in open and blamed him. Their are also few players Like dhoni n dravid who never said a word against him as they shared a good equation with him. Someone like Irfan has said that chappell was misunderstood. 

 

I have always believed the guy Wasnt as bad as he was made out to. For me he did a Many wrong things but when things fell flat he was actually made a scapegoat for everything wrong in Indian cricket. He was indeed  poor man-manager but i thought his theories and idea's werent wrong. Im not defending him as just discussing things from other side as one side is already being over-shown. 

 

1. Pushing for Fitness- His theory of having high fitness for players wasn't wrong as he has come from a culture where players over 30 work extra hard on their fitness and gave 100% on field. Expecting that from our players wasn't wrong but may be they were not ready. Having said if they were to be No-1 side it was an absolute necessity. Even guys like sehwag, bhajji who were young were also said to be lazy which affected their last leg of career. Chappell predicted then about these guys that if they dont work hard their reflexes would slow down n they would have issue post certain age n he was right. Whereas someone like dhoni who was always in his good books has survived n played well due his fitness. . Another modern example - how Virat kohli has taken his fitness to Australian standards in 1-2 yrs and reaping benefits. So its says a lot how it was must to become a better team.

2. Bringing youth in side- Something he tried at his time which backfired as we jump on conclusions so soon. But dhoni became captain the 1st thing he did was omitting dravid n ganguly from his side and it worked wonders for his team. So the theory wasnt wrong. May be his execution was. Dhoni also beilved that these guys are slow in field and their running isnt upto mark which in the end makes a diff of 25-30 runs and thats were the results change. But under his tenure many many new players came in the picture which stopped happening under sourav's last phase as captain as he kept rotating his favorites.

Zaheer, Nehra, Parthiv, Balaji, rohan gavaskar and few other lept playing despite poor perfomance n poor fitness. Under Chappell- Rp, Sreesanth, uthappa, gambhir, Raina , chawla came in side in no time.

3. Made Indan team better chasers - Im not sure who exactly deserves credit for this but under his tenure we set a record of successfull chases. India were never good at chasing but under his era we did that. Now we did have arsenal also but still he also deserves some credit for being part of that think tank.

4. Rise of yuvraj singh - A lot of people wont remember where tussle between ganguly n chappell begun. It was Indian oil Tri-series 2005(sri lanka) where ganguly injury pushed yuvraj up the order & against West indies and he smashed a 100. Ganguly at that times was really struggling with his form. So chappell felt a match winner like yuvraj singh doesnt get a chance to bat up due to seniors. So he made yuvraj singh bat at 4 and he rose from there . Before that yuvraj was one of the most inconsistent players going around. HE also worked on yuvraj technique. If anyone remembers he started playing with straight bat and played shots in V onGround at start of his innings. Pick Yuvraj singh video and his most compact technique would be seen in 2005 onwards. Yograj singh also credited chappell for the change in his son.

http://blogs.rediff.com/multy/2006/04/17/yograj-singh-chappell-a-big-reason-behind-yuvrajs-success/

5. Bcci- Bcci for me was the biggest culprit as they 1st got things ugly between him n ganguly coz they wanted Ganguly n Dalmiya out . Then they gave huge power to him which was wrong. Coach cant have so much power as its the Captain's team. Then seeing the political tension they took away his power also. So Bcci looked for their comfort. 

6.His Experiments - His experimenting with batting order was heavily criticized as it was always on shuffle. But now i refuse to beilve it was only his idea. As i have seen with dravid in u-19, RR, DD that shuffling is still their so may be it dravid was also their in those ideas. But We wont blame dravid he such nice boy.....

7. Irfan Pathan decline- another one of the most stupid things i always heard was him trying to make Irfan an all rounder destroyed his bowling. Laughable. Irfan had great ability with bat and he gave him chance to bat up so how did it destroy his bowling. By that logic no one should ever become an all rounder. Where are those people who wants to make Bhuvi n ashwin all rounder now why dont you use same theories. If irfan bowling saw a downfalll it was because of change in his action and his dropping fitness level which continuous till dates. 

8. Poor Perfomance- Did our perfomance really went down that we made a scapegoat of him. People said that he threw ganguly out of team and destroyed our team. Well Lets recall, Post 2004 win in Pakistan under ganguly we kept loosing everything even at home for one year and his own form hit rockbottom . So Lets not say he destroyed the team as it was already on low. Infact after him we became good chasers, Won Odi series in Pak comprehensively, Won series in Wi, Won our 1st test in SA.So it wasnt that bad. Yes we were out of WC and all but that has happened before and after to. Its not that he made us a minnow from Australia. But he got such blame. Which was not right. He wasnt responsibile for our domestic structure, selectors, corrupt board and so many other issues in 

9. Ganguly V/s Chappell- Chappell was, is and will always be hated in world for his spat with sourav. People might not even remember him for what a cricketer he was. Now when their is fight there are two people and both are some where responsible. But chappell was only one blamed. Ganguly had his fights with Buchanan and john wright to. Now dropping of ganguly for me was right as he was woefully out of form and Infact when we lost series to Pakistan at home whole India wanted him out. A Gora comes n does it we go against him. Ganguly fitness was also very very poor. His captaincy result over last one year was also very poor. Being dropped helped ganguly comeback as much much better player and his fitness improved leaps n bounce. So i think Greg deserved a bit of credit and also flak for ignoring him for long. Ganguly captaincy ideas was also not taking team forward as his persistence with his fav players didnt allow new players to come. Guys like Zaheer, Nehra kept playing despite injuries . Ganguly Odi game did drop which we saw in 2007 Wc his slow innings actually affected whole team's momentum. After a year Dhoni also Dropped Sourav but when a Gora did it we couldnt take it. Chappell was at fault for a lot of things but only blaming him wasnt right. He didnt leak the email also that was done by BCCI.

10. Discovering Dhoni Captaincy skills- No it wasnt Sachin who found Dhoni's Captaincy skills but it was Chappell. In 2006 he spotted Dhoni could be great leader an passed his idea to dravid n selectors. The only problem was hierarchy in Indian cricket who wanted Sehwag n Yuvraj as next Captain being seniors. Sourav ganguly on Record many times said Sehwag should have been Next captain n other were in favour of yuvraj. But it was chappell who wanted dhoni to be the leader. Latter the credit of this was taken By Sachin tendulkar.

Article in 2006 where Chappell suggested Dhoni as next leader- http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2006/apr/11dhoni.htm

 

In the End My question is Why do we love to blame only one person for everything. It wasnt that we were World champions before chappell came and nor we became minnows under him. We Did improve a lot Post Chappell and why we could discuss in another thread but Again Im not for blaming every thing on one person. His problem with our players was he asked them to push them beyond their limit and took our players out of comfort level. Something which kohli has done and is must to become No-1 team. A lot of Chappell theories were put to better execution post him. If he was wrong so were many things around him. 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
Posted

This deserves a post of the week award.....seriously fantastic analysis and post :hatsoff: 

 

I have have always said that Gary Kirsten was lucky and overrated....the fact that he just reaped the benefits of Chappell's initiatives....one thing that Kirsten did very well was the rapport and man management which worked like a charm with all the good initiatives already implemented by Chappell.

 

Chappll is just naturally a jerk but can't doubt his professionalism to his job and  his cricketing acumen.....to summarize him in one sentence....he was the wrong guy with the right ideas.

 

Actually Kirsten's success and Chappell's failures were directly responsible for Fletcher's failure. Today when you look at the 150+ bowlers and Fast bowling allrounders or even decent Spinners who can bat in the England squad, that had everything to do with Fletcher's iniatives. This was the same guy who played Giles over other better spinners due to Giles' batting abity.

 

I think Chappell would have been perfect in this current test team as a coach.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, maniac said:

I have have always said that Gary Kirsten was lucky and overrated....the fact that he just reaped the benefits of Chappell's initiatives....one thing that Kirsten did very well was the rapport and man management which worked like a charm with all the good initiatives already implemented by Chappell. Chappll is just naturally a jerk but can't doubt his professionalism to his job and  his cricketing acumen.....to summarize him in one sentence....he was the wrong guy with the right ideas. Actually Kirsten's success and Chappell's failures were directly responsible for Fletcher's failure. Today when you look at the 150+ bowlers and Fast bowling allrounders or even decent Spinners who can bat in the England squad, that had everything to do with Fletcher's iniatives. This was the same guy who played Giles over other better spinners due to Giles' batting abity. I think Chappell would have been perfect in this current test team as a coach.

Chappell and Dravid were both in wrong time. Dravid was one captain i regd highly as i felt he was actually very attacking. With him there was always a slip no matter what the situation was. The fields settings given to Zaheer and rp in Eng and Sreesanth in Sa forced them to bowl full which they benefitted a lot. With dravid i felt he didnt have thr proper support of seniors in early part of his captaincy and latter part he lost his own form. 

 

Kirsten- Even i feel he was really lucky . To his credit he was an excellent man manager and very hard working. But the thing with Captaincy n coaching is when u 11 match winners in form both job are very easy. Thats what Made kirsetn job damn easy.

  • It was Chappell who discovered dhoni captaincy skill not Tendulkar. Kirsten reaped its benefit. Had it been someone else i assure you the next captain in like was Sehwag. Ganguly was pushing sehwag to be next captain. Greg Chappell article in 2006 suggesting dhoni as Next captain- http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2006/apr/11dhoni.htm
  • Luckily he never had ENG, AUS tour which would have been a real test. Nz tour which we won well Nz was a poor team that time. In Sa we drew series, well we had good team and we also won a test in Sa under Chappell also but Credit given where it is due . We drew Test series in Sa under him.
  • Most test series we played at home so an easy task that was.
  • Sachin was at the peak during kirsten phase. He scored like a machine. Zaheer khan hit his peek as well which hadnt chappell kicked him wont have happened. It was chappell who got Zaheer, Sehwag out of their comfort zone and dropped them so they could work hard n come back. Gambhir was also at hi peek and dhoni never had a dull time. Bhajji enjoyed home series. So everyone's perfomance was great.
  • Rp singh n Sreesanth who was bought in by Chappell did well in that phase. Also guys like Raina, uthappa, gambhir , chawla and few other bought in team under chappell did decent if not great.
  • Kirsten ICC tournament Record- 2011 Wc at home won, 2009 Ct in Sa - very poor, T20 Wc in 2009,2010 very poor.
  • Emergence of Kohli in Last yr of Kirsten phase who started extremely well. 
  • Ipl Emergence started giving indian team a lot of bench strength.
  • Zaheer was like a bowling captain which made dhoni life very easy and sachin at mid-on off was another plus

 

Fletcher- He was a good man-manager i have never heard people having issue with his attitude. His problem was he took it as a job and had no passion like we are seeing it Kumble. His age didnt allow him to train with boys like Kirsten or Kumble did. He wasnt someone who could give a earful to a player like Wright, Chappell, Kirsten , kumble all could. Strategically he was never good as his exp wasnt gr8 like of others. 

  • Unlucky to have gone on all tough tours at start of phase - Aus, ENG
  • Fall of seniors like Sachin, sehwag, gambhir, bhajji, zaheer, Laxman , dravid all pillars fell at same time. No team would have risen of it.
  • Yuvraj singh ODi great illness left his Odi team in disarray also.
  • No senior in team to guide youngster and he himself didnt have great International Exp. 
  • Kohli becoming a champion player was something he enjoyed but one player cant do much as compare to kirsten era where everyone was a match winner. 
  • Failing of Ishant, bhajji to take up roles of senior mentor post Zaheer and kumble.
  • Sehwag n gambhir failing with their form and support to captain.
  • Zaheer injury meant no bowling captain n bowling guide. 
  • Bowling talents like Rp, sreesanth, irfan, munaf, praveen all came to complete failure.
  • His Icc Tournament record- 2013 CT won, 2012 t20- poor, 2014 t20 - finalist , 2015Wc- semi finalist. So his ICC tournaments perfomance looked much better than Kirsten who just had one win that to at home. 
  • Board president Srini Mama cared all about money
  • Domestic structure started suffering due to green pitches. No fault of fletcher but his tenure suffered.
Edited by Ankit_sharma03
Posted
23 minutes ago, TheWall said:

Chappell could have been a great coach...

Not sure since he wasnt a great Man- Manager but he would have been great administrator as he had all right ideas. He is also said to be a great talent spotter.

Posted

I'm not sure about everything regarding Chappel, but there were definitely 2 areas he was positive. He started incorporating young players, which was clearly needed. The fitness aspect is very underrated. We saw our team age before our eyes in 2011 during the Eng/Aus tours. On the other hand, look at the fitness culture Dhoni/Kohli are establishing. Players like Ashwin have taken up weightlifting.  Even in the WC2015 we had the highest run rate in the middle overs between the power plays, even higher than Australia. This showed how adept our players have become at taking singles.  

Posted
6 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

I'm not sure about everything regarding Chappel, but there were definitely 2 areas he was positive. He started incorporating young players, which was clearly needed. The fitness aspect is very underrated. We saw our team age before our eyes in 2011 during the Eng/Aus tours. On the other hand, look at the fitness culture Dhoni/Kohli are establishing. Players like Ashwin have taken up weightlifting.  Even in the WC2015 we had the highest run rate in the middle overs between the power plays, even higher than Australia. This showed how adept our players have become at taking singles.  

Those two aspects were the base of his disappointment and disagreement with others which further led to all the drama

Posted
9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Those two aspects were the base of his disappointment and disagreement with others which further led to all the drama

Yep, that is a shame. It seems the professionalism in our cricketing culture/set up would have skyrocketed. 

 

I remember an interview Andrew Symonds had during the IPL years ago when he was with Mumbai Indians, he said how young Indian players are lazy and don't put in effort with fielding. I'm happy how it has improved over the years and we numerous young Indian players who are terrific fielders. 

 

I respect our legends like Dada, Viru, Bhajji, etc but they really dropped the ball with regards to fitness.  

Posted
6 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Yep, that is a shame. It seems the professionalism in our cricketing culture/set up would have skyrocketed. 

 

I remember an interview Andrew Symonds had during the IPL years ago when he was with Mumbai Indians, he said how young Indian players are lazy and don't put in effort with fielding. I'm happy how it has improved over the years and we numerous young Indian players who are terrific fielders. 

 

I respect our legends like Dada, Viru, Bhajji, etc but they really dropped the ball with regards to fitness.  

Symonds said that when he was playing For Deccan charger and he said it for a particular player named "ROHIT SHARMA"

 

Harsha bhogleA couple of years ago Symonds told me Rohit was "lazy", that he was looking forward to playing with him again and giving him a "x@#%o*!" because he was the most talented kid playing. As Rahul Dravid said recently, there is a talent to hit a cricket ball and there is a talent to constantly challenge yourself, to get better every day, to focus on what is best for you, to do the hard yards.

Full article- http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/story/576567.html

 

Rohit sharma would have same issues if he doesnt work hard on his fitness like Sehwag n all. Their reflexes went down after a certain age and same can happen to rohit as well. His game would go for a toss if that happens. Watching his Paunch really disappointed me this time in WI, i fear for him the same.

Posted
6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Symonds said that when he was playing For Deccan charger and he said it for a particular player named "ROHIT SHARMA"

 

Harsha bhogleA couple of years ago Symonds told me Rohit was "lazy", that he was looking forward to playing with him again and giving him a "x@#%o*!" because he was the most talented kid playing. As Rahul Dravid said recently, there is a talent to hit a cricket ball and there is a talent to constantly challenge yourself, to get better every day, to focus on what is best for you, to do the hard yards.

Full article- http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/story/576567.html

 

Rohit sharma would have same issues if he doesnt work hard on his fitness like Sehwag n all. Their reflexes went down after a certain age and same can happen to rohit as well. His game would go for a toss if that happens. Watching his Paunch really disappointed me this time in WI, i fear for him the same.

Yes, you are right he was with the Chargers then and he does mention Rohit. However, I found the video, if you skip to 3:10 you can see he says 90% of Indian players are lazy. I wonder how much influence he had on Rohit. What's funny is he mentions how Raina takes his training seriously, but even Raina has a tummy now. 

 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Yes, you are right he was with the Chargers then and he does mention Rohit. However, I found the video, if you skip to 3:10 you can see he says 90% of Indian players are lazy. I wonder how much influence he had on Rohit. What's funny is he mentions how Raina takes his training seriously, but even Raina has a tummy now.

He must have said that line off-air to harsha as he didnt wanted to spoil his IpL contracts. Yes Raina also has a tummy now and its very disappointing. Raina must have been hardworking but things change really fast. Raina's result show that his hard work hasnt been enough.

M pretty sure he also would have Rp singh in his mind while saying it as he also played for DC and we have seen the end result of RP singh. No wonder we can the diff btw kohli, dhoni n others and even indian & australian team post 2000 . 

Posted

Interview of Chappell where he perfectly describes the problem. I admire one thing about this guy that he has admitted many times in interviews that many of his ways were wrong but none of our players or administrator came out and admitted that they were also wrong at their part.

 

Posted
Just now, maniac said:

This deserves a post of the week award.....seriously fantastic analysis and post :hatsoff: 

 

I have have always said that Gary Kirsten was lucky and overrated....the fact that he just reaped the benefits of Chappell's initiatives....one thing that Kirsten did very well was the rapport and man management which worked like a charm with all the good initiatives already implemented by Chappell.

 

Chappll is just naturally a jerk but can't doubt his professionalism to his job and  his cricketing acumen.....to summarize him in one sentence....he was the wrong guy with the right ideas.

 

Actually Kirsten's success and Chappell's failures were directly responsible for Fletcher's failure. Today when you look at the 150+ bowlers and Fast bowling allrounders or even decent Spinners who can bat in the England squad, that had everything to do with Fletcher's iniatives. This was the same guy who played Giles over other better spinners due to Giles' batting abity.

 

I think Chappell would have been perfect in this current test team as a coach.

++

Posted

There was a movie named " Ek doctor ki maut ".  Chappell, though not as brilliant as the doctor in that movie, was a coach full of new ideas about how to improve the ' team game ' , but , just like the doctor in that movie, alienated people around him all the time. The same thing happened when he was connected to the Australian cricket team.

 

He supposedly complained to the BCCI about the players behind their back by writing a letter.

 

I always thought that  Chappell tried to introduce concepts in the Indian team that was never there in the past and there was too much stress on pleasing the stars.  He was the first person who tried to inculcate the ' team over individuals concept ' very strongly.  

 

But man-management, earning the trusts of individuals around you and being like an elder brother to them, are very important for being a good coach and Chappell faltered in this aspect big-time.

Posted (edited)

Chappell's biggest mistake was to place himself before the team.  No good coach ever does that.  Just because he stated the obvious on fitness and team doesn't make him "misunderstood".  An @rsehole is still an @rsehole even if he says a couple of things that are true.  The way he went about character assassinating Gangu showed that he was an unethical selfish guy when it came down to it.  Now I'm no blind Dada bhakt, and Gangu definitely had his flaws, but "Guru Greg" should never have been India coach and its no accident that no other team has ever hired him as coach.  

Edited by sandeep
Posted
23 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Chappell's biggest mistake was to place himself before the team.  No good coach ever does that.  Just because he stated the obvious on fitness and team doesn't make him "misunderstood".  An @rsehole is still an @rsehole even if he says a couple of things that are true.  The way he went about character assassinating Gangu showed that he was an unethical selfish guy when it came down to it.  Now I'm no blind Dada bhakt, and Gangu definitely had his flaws, but "Guru Greg" should never have been India coach and its no accident that no other team has ever hired him as coach.  

Very well-said.  Having good ideas is one thing.  Having decency and ethical conduct is just as important, if not more.  And Greg seriously lacked those.  He was a needy, whiny, me-first a-hole who loved the limelight.  Besides demeaning the players behind their backs, don't forget how he flipped off the public.  Lout.  Maybe a smart lout, but a lout nonetheless. 

 

 

Posted
7 hours ago, express bowling said:

There was a movie named " Ek doctor ki maut ".  Chappell, though not as brilliant as the doctor in that movie, was a coach full of new ideas about how to improve the ' team game ' , but , just like the doctor in that movie, alienated people around him all the time. The same thing happened when he was connected to the Australian cricket team.

 

He supposedly complained to the BCCI about the players behind their back by writing a letter.

 

I always thought that  Chappell tried to introduce concepts in the Indian team that was never there in the past and there was too much stress on pleasing the stars.  He was the first person who tried to inculcate the ' team over individuals concept ' very strongly.  

 

But man-management, earning the trusts of individuals around you and being like an elder brother to them, are very important for being a good coach and Chappell faltered in this aspect big-time.

He had a right to write to bcci that he is not happy with players commitment and every coach has done that. Kirsten did the same after 2010 t20 Wc but it was wrong on Bcci to leak it. 

 

Chappell was indeed a very poor man-manager but he did admit that in future, but all i want to see our legends in future cricket coming out n saying we didnt put that extra bit in fitness to become a champion team. As a kid i use to always wonder We have the greatest batsman sachin who people term as god, other great players like laxman, dravid, ganguly, kumble and good bunch of youngster yet we are nowere close to australia whyy????????

 

Ultimately chappell went back and moved on with his life even though his reputation got trashed but guys like sehwag bhajji suffered what chappell warned them of so i believe there was no personal agenda. Yes after a time ego issues do develop. 

Posted

Of course Chappell was not a total disaster. Some good things happened in Indian cricket during his time. India's chasing prowess in ODIs, injection of some good young players, a bit of improvement in fitness levels. We had some really good results under Dravid's captaincy (except 2007 WC).

 

Plenty of things went wrong as well, as everybody knows. Being in the foreground, media hungry. Poor man management. Sacking Ganguly by itself may or may not be a good idea, but the way it's done behind his back was awful. IMO, he lacked certain traits to be a consistently good coach. I'm not sure, but not just India even other teams he coached (at FC level?) didn't have good things to say about him.

 

 

Posted

Chappell is being unnecessarily willified for the failures of the team during that phase. He was a nice and convenient scapegoat to find when the senior members of the team were really to blame. Ganguly never took fitness seriously, he was also going through a wretched phase as far as his performances were concerned. Captaincy wise he was doing ok, but with Dravid as an option waiting and to me an even better option than Ganguly for captaincy, Chappell was right in asking Ganguly to step down. But the politician that resides inside Ganguly made a big deal out of it and tried to paint Chappell as a villain. The "gang" culture among the seniors and regulars in the team ensured tha he got the support of those who were just happy to toe his line.

 

Honestly, I felt a coach like Chappell is needed. Coaches since then have only been mute spectators playing to the whims and fancies of the captain. Even a strong personality like Duncan Fletcher, after the Chappell lesson, was just acting as a puppet in the hands of Dhoni. When players say that the coach must fit into the culture, all they are asking for is that the coach must just play along with what the seniors are dictating to him, take his paycheck and not utter a word. 

 

Posted
Just now, Texan said:

Chappell is being unnecessarily willified for the failures of the team during that phase. He was a nice and convenient scapegoat to find when the senior members of the team were really to blame. Ganguly never took fitness seriously, he was also going through a wretched phase as far as his performances were concerned. Captaincy wise he was doing ok, but with Dravid as an option waiting and to me an even better option than Ganguly for captaincy, Chappell was right in asking Ganguly to step down. But the politician that resides inside Ganguly made a big deal out of it and tried to paint Chappell as a villain. The "gang" culture among the seniors and regulars in the team ensured tha he got the support of those who were just happy to toe his line.

 

Honestly, I felt a coach like Chappell is needed. Coaches since then have only been mute spectators playing to the whims and fancies of the captain. Even a strong personality like Duncan Fletcher, after the Chappell lesson, was just acting as a puppet in the hands of Dhoni. When players say that the coach must fit into the culture, all they are asking for is that the coach must just play along with what the seniors are dictating to him, take his paycheck and not utter a word. 

 

totally agree with this post. this is problem with most indians whenever they assume positions of power. completely unaccountable and act like the world owes them a favor 

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