Random God-Religion discussion thread

[panther]

Allah sounds like he is a bit of attention-seeker. 

But you said that if you had no desires, you'd be an angel. Considering that 90% Buddhist monks have no desires, so are they angels ?

 

Panther: So what makes you chose Islam over other religions ? Did God come to you personally and tell you one man's scribblings are authorized by him and another man's isn't ?

 

Firstly I was born into a Muslim family, secondly I couldn't accept that Jesus was God or that idols were God or that God has many parts or that God is inside us, monotheism is what convinced me about Islam.

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[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, panther said:

Firstly I was born into a Muslim family, secondly I couldn't accept that Jesus was God or that idols were God or that God has many parts or that God is inside us, monotheism is what convinced me about Islam.

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What is it about monotheism that you find convincing ?

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, panther said:

If we had no desires than we would have been angles.

I have many they are between me and God.

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Do humans live in paradise or angels? 

 

How would you go to paradise? 

[panther]

48 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

What is it about monotheism that you find convincing ?

 

Allah is one, has no partner, has full command of the universe and it is subject to his mastery. 

24 minutes ago, zen said:

Do humans live in paradise or angels? 

 

How would you go to paradise? 

Humans.

 

You would go to paradise through the mercy of God.

[Muloghonto]

7 minutes ago, panther said:

Allah is one, has no partner, has full command of the universe and it is subject to his mastery. 

Humans.

 

You would go to paradise through the mercy of God.

That is what it says in the Koran. But you said monotheism is what convinced you about Islam. So i asked, what is it about Monotheism that you find convincing ?

 

[zen]

13 minutes ago, panther said:

Humans.

You would go to paradise through the mercy of God.

But how can you remain a human in paradise esp if it is not on earth? If you consider soul to be eternal, the body never leaves the earth after death 

 

Mercy is fine but one also needs to do good deeds, if I m not wrong 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by zen

[panther]

7 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

That is what it says in the Koran. But you said monotheism is what convinced you about Islam. So i asked, what is it about Monotheism that you find convincing ?

 

That God is one.

4 minutes ago, zen said:

But how can you remain a human in paradise esp if it is not on earth? If you consider soul to be eternal, the body never leaves the earth after death 

 

Mercy is fine but one also needs to do good deeds, if I m not wrong 

 

 

In paradise we will be a different creation. 

 

No In sunni Islam we don't believe that good deeds gets you into paradise.

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, panther said:

That God is one.

But why do you find that convincing ? You haven't given your reason to why you find one God to be more convincing than :

a) many Gods

b) no God.

 

You said that you are a muslim because monotheism convinced you to be muslim. My question is, what convinced you to be monotheist in the first place

 

[panther]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

But why do you find that convincing ? You haven't given your reason to why you find one God to be more convincing than :

a) many Gods

b) no God.

 

You said that you are a muslim because monotheism convinced you to be muslim. My question is, what convinced you to be monotheist in the first place

 

I can't accept that there are many gods because how can there be something greater than God, if there are many gods there must have been something greater than them that created them, and the fact that they were created defeats the whole understanding of God who is uncreated.

 

I have never been convinced that there is no god, I don't accept that this life is just an accident.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, panther said:

I can't accept that there are many gods because how can there be something greater than God, if there are many gods there must have been something greater than them that created them, and the fact that they were created defeats the whole understanding of God who is uncreated.

 

I have never been convinced that there is no god, I don't accept that this life is just an accident.

IF you need something greater than Gods to create multiple God, then why don't you need something greater to create one God ?

Why do you need a creator of Gods if there is more than 1 God and no creator of Gods if there is only 1 ?

 

Why don't you accept that life can be a matter of accident ? This universe is seemingly infinite. And if something is infinite, then by logic, any possibility has to exist in the infinite. So by logic, in an infinite universe, life has to exist somewhere by pure chance alone. 

 

[zen]

14 minutes ago, panther said:

In paradise we will be a different creation. 

 

No In sunni Islam we don't believe that good deeds gets you into paradise.

So what creation would that be? Why would that creation have the same desires as humans? 

 

How do Sunni get God's mercy? 

Edited October 8, 2016 by zen

[panther]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

IF you need something greater than Gods to create multiple God, then why don't you need something greater to create one God ?

Why do you need a creator of Gods if there is more than 1 God and no creator of Gods if there is only 1 ?

 

Why don't you accept that life can be a matter of accident ? This universe is seemingly infinite. And if something is infinite, then by logic, any possibility has to exist in the infinite. So by logic, in an infinite universe, life has to exist somewhere by pure chance alone. 

 

God is uncreated, How can the greatest conceivable being be created, anything created is not God.

 

Why do you need a creator of Gods if there is more than 1 God ? The possibility of God being a created being is illogical, because How can god be created?

 

your 2nd point would be correct if the universe did not have a beginning, but we know that it did so in that case for me Allah created the universe into existence, rather than believe that it created itself which again doesn't make sense to me. 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, panther said:

God is uncreated, How can the greatest conceivable being be created, anything created is not God.

 

Why do you need a creator of Gods if there is more than 1 God ? The possibility of God being a created being is illogical, because How can god be created?

 

your 2nd point would be correct if the universe did not have a beginning, but we know that it did so in that case for me Allah created the universe into existence, rather than believe that it created itself which again doesn't make sense to me. 

 

 

You haven't explained why 1 God can be eternal but not 3 Gods  or 1 million of them ? Why cant the process that makes 1 God uncreated, be applied to more than 1 being ? 

 

And the universe doesnt have a beginning. Big Bang is not the beginning of the universe, its beginning of this phase of universe. Before the big bang, we had a pre-big bang superdense mass. That is also part of the universe's timeline and we have no evidence something or someone created that stage.

 

Why doesnt it make sense to you that universe- which is composed on inanimate matter, such as hydrogen, helium, etc. cannot create itself/is eternal, but something far more complex- like God didnt create itself/is eternal ?

[panther]

20 minutes ago, zen said:

So what creation would that be? Why would that creation have the same desires as humans? 

 

How do Sunni get God's mercy? 

I don't know exactly but some description is given in the hadith, you can search them up if you want.

 

 In the Quran it states you will have whatever you desire in paradise.

 

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/03/07/good-deeds-salvation-putting-our-works-into-perspective/ this is the answer that I read a few years back It answer your 2nd question, if you want to read it.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by panther

[panther]

5 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You haven't explained why 1 God can be eternal but not 3 Gods  or 1 million of them ? Why cant the process that makes 1 God uncreated, be applied to more than 1 being ? 

 

And the universe doesnt have a beginning. Big Bang is not the beginning of the universe, its beginning of this phase of universe. Before the big bang, we had a pre-big bang superdense mass. That is also part of the universe's timeline and we have no evidence something or someone created that stage.

 

Why doesnt it make sense to you that universe- which is composed on inanimate matter, such as hydrogen, helium, etc. cannot create itself/is eternal, but something far more complex- like God didnt create itself/is eternal ?

There is no process that makes God eternal, God always existed, Many gods is impossible because in order for them to come into existence they have to be created, that word created should be enough to tell you that The whole ideia is stupid, how can god be created?. 

 

Ok so you will wait till physics plugs that gap in knowledge, whilst I will believe that God created the universe, to each their own.

 

The fact that they can not create themselves is proof that They had a creator. 

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, panther said:

There is no process that makes God eternal, God always existed, Many gods is impossible because in order for them to come into existence they have to be created, that word created should be enough to tell you that The whole ideia is stupid, how can god be created?. 

 

Ok so you will wait till physics plugs that gap in knowledge, whilst I will believe that God created the universe, to each their own.

 

The fact that they can not create themselves is proof that They had a creator. 

Why do many Gods need to be created but 1 God can be eternal ? Thats what you have not explained. Why, if the answer is '1 God', then that God is eternal, but if its '10 Gods', then they all must be created ? Why cant they be eternal too ? 

 

What cannot the universe create itself ? We see hydrogen/helium being created every single moment in astronomy. We see heavier elements being created out of lighter elements spontaneously in the universe. So if you can get Iron from helium and hydrogen from inside a star by itself, why cant you have it all come into existence on its own ?

 

Also, why does the universe need to be created ? Why cannot it be eternal ? I find it far easier to believe that simple matter is eternal, than infinitely complex 'being' being eternal. More complex the thing, more it requires creation. If God is infinite, then God is also infinitely complex, which means something needs to create this infinite complexity. 

As per how can God be created- well, God by definition has to be created. Because if the definition of God is infinite, then infinity must have a beginning, since nothing is infinite from the moment it came into existence, it has to REACH infinity. Therefore, God must also be created, if there is a God. 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Muloghonto

[zen]

17 minutes ago, panther said:

I don't know exactly but some description is given in the hadith, you can search them up if you want.

 

 In the Quran it states you will have whatever you desire in paradise.

 

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/03/07/good-deeds-salvation-putting-our-works-into-perspective/ this is the answer that I read a few years back It answer your 2nd question, if you want to read it.

 

 

I read the link. What's prescribed highlights the current problem with mis-using religion 

 

Whatever we desire as humans, may not be the same as what one could desire after one is no longer an human. So to live the life in a way to get what you desire as human after death when you are no longer a human is an oxymoron 

 

And if entering paradise by and large depends upon God's mercy and not just deeds, one can do whatever pleases. Now if a condition is added that God is merciful to those who spread Islam by converting Kafirs by hook or crook (including killing them), it actually creates a hell on the earth (in promise of paradise with its oxymorons)

 

 

[panther]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Why do many Gods need to be created but 1 God can be eternal ? Thats what you have not explained. Why, if the answer is '1 God', then that God is eternal, but if its '10 Gods', then they all must be created ? Why cant they be eternal too ? 

 

What cannot the universe create itself ? We see hydrogen/helium being created every single moment in astronomy. We see heavier elements being created out of lighter elements spontaneously in the universe. So if you can get Iron from helium and hydrogen from inside a star by itself, why cant you have it all come into existence on its own ?

As per how can God be created- well, God by definition has to be created. Because if the definition of God is infinite, then infinity must have a beginning, since nothing is infinite from the moment it came into existence, it has to REACH infinity. Therefore, God must also be created, if there is a God. 

 

God always existed, the reason why 10 gods or many gods can't be eternal is because in order for 10 gods to exist they must have been created by someone, the moment they are created they can possibly not be god because they needed someone to create them, When the very idea of god is one who is free of all needs. 

 

Also look at it this way Allah mentions in the Quran   Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah , they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah , Lord of the Throne, above what they describe

Chapter (21) sūrat l-anbiyāa (The Prophets)

If There were 10 eternal gods as you say and they all had equal power How would the universe function? They all have equal power and can do whatever the will now one wants to cause an eathquake and another wants to stop it,  will the earthquake ever happen? 

 

Allah created time, he is not bound by time.

[panther]

20 minutes ago, zen said:

I read the link. What's prescribed highlights the current problem with mis-using religion 

 

Whatever we desire as humans, may not be the same as what one could desire after one is no longer an human. So to live the life in a way to get what you desire as human after death when you are no longer a human is an oxymoron 

 

And if entering paradise by and large depends upon God's mercy and not just deeds, one can do whatever pleases. Now if a condition is added that God is merciful to those who spread Islam by converting Kafirs by hook or crook (including killing them), it actually creates a hell on the earth (in promise of paradise with its oxymorons)

 

 

And why can't you have both, In paradise you will be given what you desire and more, it will be such to beat your expectations. 

 

The reason why we can't be the same creation in paradise is simple, if we were the same in paradise there would be a limit on how much we could eat, after a while we would have to go and relieve ourselves, also after a while we would get old, lose our youthfulness, it makes no sense to have the same problems that we have on earth.

Edited October 8, 2016 by panther

[zen]

22 minutes ago, panther said:

And why can't you have both, In paradise you will be given what you desire and more, it will be such to beat your expectations. 

 

The reason why we can't be the same creation in paradise is simple, if we were the same in paradise there would be a limit on how much we could eat, after a while we would have to go and relieve ourselves, also after a while we would get old, lose our youthfulness, it makes no sense to have the same problems that we have on earth.

 Say your human desire is to sleep with 100 most beautiful women. And you want to go to paradise for it.

 

After death, you discover that you are just a shining light with no ability to sleep with anyone. 

 

So how is the promise of getting your desire fulfilled in paradise work in this case? 

 

And if you are going to paradise thinking whatever your desire is at that point will be fulfilled, you are just shooting in dark and wasting your current life sold on a dummy idea ....  Which is why focusing on good deeds is imp as it at least makes your current life worthwhile. And if you go to paradise for it, it is a bonus!

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by zen