Is Ashwin heading towards the league of the great Kapil Dev?

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I don't believe what a cricketer or commentator says about past. They all mostly exaggerate and this is in our nature to eulogize past. There are plenty of videos available to watch with your own eyes.

That is silly, considering those people have played on those pitches themselves and are more qualified to talk about it than you.

It is in our nature to eulogize the past as well as to aggrandize the present as the 'best there ever has been'.

 

Plenty of videos available shows that the pitches in the caribbean and particularly in Perth bounced significantly more than they do today.

 

[Texan]

13 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I don't believe what a cricketer or commentator says about past. They all mostly exaggerate and this is in our nature to eulogize past. There are plenty of videos available to watch with your own eyes.

Pitches in WI have indeed slowed down considerably. Not just commentators, but even former cricketers will tell you that. 

[Texan]

13 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I don't believe what a cricketer or commentator says about past. They all mostly exaggerate and this is in our nature to eulogize past. There are plenty of videos available to watch with your own eyes.

Pitches in WI have indeed slowed down considerably. Not just commentators, but even former cricketers will tell you that. 

[CoverDrive]

Ashwin is definitely a test all rounder for us. Question is in LOIs. He is not a big hitter or fast runner so is not that effective coming down the order. 

 

Maybe they should try him in top 4 in ODI's. He will have less bowling load and can be used to build the innings while other play aggresively around him

[Texan]

19 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

 

How much potential you have does not matter until it reflects in the stats? He was a much better batsman than what his stats shows is a futile argument when someone has played 131 tests.

 

Regarding, him taking wickets in those places. England he might if he finds drier pitches. Cant see him doing well in Aus, SA, NZ. 

I mentioned that he was a better batsman than his stats suggest because of the value of his innings in the same manner that I consider the sum total of Sehwag's value in the Test team more than just the runs he scored. Both were capable of turning matches around with their batting, Sehwag being a specialist batsman a lot more reliable than Kapil. Nevertheless, Kapil was a phenomenal batsman and had he given more attention to his batting and played with a little more caution, could have easily averaged over Imran and Botham. Technically, he possessed all the shots in the book and could execute them at will. 

[Cricketics]

Regardless of slow pitch or whatever, playing against those West Indies must have been a big deal and scoring a century was just top effort. I play cricket with lot of West Indians and their family come and watch us play and they talk about how they respect two Indian players more than anyone. They always mentioned Kapil dev and other being Gavaskar. All those old Windies folks know their cricket as they have seen the Windies dominate oppositions in different islands of Windies. So regardless of slow pitches, scoring against Any trio of Windies bowlers must have been real hard and Kapil scoring century there has to bee commendable effort at that time.

[Muloghonto]

21 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Regardless of slow pitch or whatever, playing against those West Indies must have been a big deal and scoring a century was just top effort. I play cricket with lot of West Indians and their family come and watch us play and they talk about how they respect two Indian players more than anyone. They always mentioned Kapil dev and other being Gavaskar. All those old Windies folks know their cricket as they have seen the Windies dominate oppositions in different islands of Windies. So regardless of slow pitches, scoring against Any trio of Windies bowlers must have been real hard and Kapil scoring century there has to bee commendable effort at that time.

err those pitches Kapil played were faster than any in the world today. 

[Cricketics]

31 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

err those pitches Kapil played were faster than any in the world today. 

Exactly, and honestly I don't give a damn about pitches these days. People are calling that commentators exaggerate about past performance, I think same way users here and supporters everywhere make too much of a big deal when a player fails overseas or takes wickets on only certain tracks etc. If someone is average over 35 away from home, I think he is still pretty decent to me.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

I don't believe what a cricketer or commentator says about past. They all mostly exaggerate and this is in our nature to eulogize past. There are plenty of videos available to watch with your own eyes.

Many  ex-players invariably embellish the era in which they played in.

 

Some pitches in the WI were  quicker than today but there were many flat decks too.

 

I distinctly remember commentators moaning about flat pitches in SOME tests in the WI...during the '80s.

 

SOME  tracks were quite quick too.

[express bowling]

21 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Exactly, and honestly I don't give a damn about pitches these days. 

There were different types of pitches in the past too....some fast and bouncy, some low and slow and  some in-between.

 

Overall. we are getting  more flat pitches these days  but the difference is not as big as the general perception.

Edited November 28, 2016 by express bowling

[Cricketics]

Just now, express bowling said:

There were different types of pitches in the past too....some fast and bouncy, some low and slow some in-between.

 

Overall. we are getting  more flat pitches these days  but the difference is not as big as the general perception.

Absolute word. I saw some 90s pitches where Indian team dominated at home and I don't see much difference in today's Indian pitches from the past. Even look at Australian tracks of 2004 when our bats dominated to the 1998 series where Tendulkar got Man of the series but India lost 0-3, they were similar, it is just that as a team we batted better in 2004 compared to 1998. And as the Australian tours continued, we started batting better other than that 2011 series where we struggled as a team.

 

[Muloghonto]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Many  ex-players invariably embellish the era in which they played in.

 

Some pitches in the WI were  quicker than today but there were many flat decks too.

 

I distinctly remember commentators moaning about flat pitches in SOME tests in the WI...during the '80s.

 

SOME  tracks were quite quick too.

what qualified as a flat deck in west indies in the 80s and 90s were pitches where you scored 300-350 for the first two innings.

Whether people embellish their own eras or not, it is universally acknowledged amongst players and commentators that pitches in west indies and Australia were way faster in general 20-30 years ago than today.

 

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

what qualified as a flat deck in west indies in the 80s and 90s were pitches where you scored 300-350 for the first two innings.

Whether people embellish their own eras or not, it is universally acknowledged amongst players and commentators that pitches in west indies and Australia were way faster in general 20-30 years ago than today.

 

Out of 52 test matches that were played between 1980 and 1995 in the WI...there were 31 scores of 380 or more in the first 2 innings.

 

Innings by innings list

Team	Score	Overs	RPO	Lead	Inns	Result		Opposition	Ground	Start Date
West Indies	593/5d	180.2	3.28	593	1	draw		v England	St John's	16 Apr 1994
England	593	206.1	2.87	0	2	draw		v West Indies	St John's	16 Apr 1994
West Indies	569	153.5	3.69	221	2	won		v Australia	Georgetown	23 Mar 1991
West Indies	556	153.3	3.62	234	2	won		v England	Georgetown	17 Mar 1994
West Indies	550	166.4	3.30	93	2	draw		v India	St John's	28 Apr 1983
Australia	531	160.5	3.30	266	2	won		v West Indies	Kingston	29 Apr 1995
West Indies	511/6d	152.5	3.34	511	1	draw		v New Zealand	Georgetown	6 Apr 1985
West Indies	509	145.4	3.49	80	2	won		v Australia	Bridgetown	30 Mar 1984
West Indies	498	145.4	3.41	236	2	won		v Australia	St John's	7 Apr 1984
West Indies	486	158.2	3.06	277	2	won		v India	Bridgetown	15 Apr 1983
West Indies	474	134.3	3.52	474	1	won		v England	St John's	11 Apr 1986
West Indies	470	142.4	3.29	470	1	draw		v India	Georgetown	31 Mar 1983
West Indies	468/9d	155.0	3.01	197	2	draw		v England	St John's	27 Mar 1981
West Indies	468/8d	126.0	3.71	213	2	draw		v Australia	Port of Spain	16 Mar 1984
India	457	126.5	3.60	457	1	draw		v West Indies	St John's	28 Apr 1983
West Indies	455	105.5	4.29	455	1	won		v Pakistan	Bridgetown	23 Apr 1993
West Indies	446	121.5	3.66	446	1	won		v England	Bridgetown	5 Apr 1990
West Indies	446	120.5	3.69	186	2	won		v England	St John's	12 Apr 1990
West Indies	442	163.1	2.70	157	2	draw		v England	Kingston	10 Apr 1981
New Zealand	440	151.5	2.89	-71	2	draw		v West Indies	Georgetown	6 Apr 1985
West Indies	438	110.2	3.96	438	1	draw		v Pakistan	St John's	1 May 1993
West Indies	437	141.0	3.09	437	1	draw		v India	Georgetown	25 Mar 1989
Pakistan	435	122.0	3.56	143	2	won		v West Indies	Georgetown	2 Apr 1988
Australia	429	149.5	2.86	429	1	lost		v West Indies	Bridgetown	30 Mar 1984
West Indies	426/9d	147.0	2.89	426	1	won		v England	Port of Spain	13 Feb 1981
West Indies	418	126.1	3.31	418	1	won		v England	Bridgetown	21 Mar 1986
West Indies	407	123.0	3.30	173	2	won		v England	Kingston	19 Feb 1994
Australia	403	108.0	3.73	403	1	won		v West Indies	St John's	27 Apr 1991
West Indies	399	104.4	3.81	223	2	won		v England	Port of Spain	7 Mar 1986
West Indies	394	138.3	2.84	219	2	draw		v India	Port of Spain	11 Mar 1983
West Indies	384	123.5	3.10	95	2	won		v India	Kingston	28 Apr 1989

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=4;innings_number=1;innings_number=2;orderby=team_score;spanmax1=31+Dec+1995;spanmin1=01+Jan+1980;spanval1=span;team=1;team=140;team=2;team=3;team=4;team=5;team=6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=team;view=innings

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Out of 52 test matches that were played between 1980 and 1995 in the WI...there were 31 scores of 380 or more in the first 2 innings.

 

Innings by innings list

Team	Score	Overs	RPO	Lead	Inns	Result		Opposition	Ground	Start Date
West Indies	593/5d	180.2	3.28	593	1	draw		v England	St John's	16 Apr 1994
England	593	206.1	2.87	0	2	draw		v West Indies	St John's	16 Apr 1994
West Indies	569	153.5	3.69	221	2	won		v Australia	Georgetown	23 Mar 1991
West Indies	556	153.3	3.62	234	2	won		v England	Georgetown	17 Mar 1994
West Indies	550	166.4	3.30	93	2	draw		v India	St John's	28 Apr 1983
Australia	531	160.5	3.30	266	2	won		v West Indies	Kingston	29 Apr 1995
West Indies	511/6d	152.5	3.34	511	1	draw		v New Zealand	Georgetown	6 Apr 1985
West Indies	509	145.4	3.49	80	2	won		v Australia	Bridgetown	30 Mar 1984
West Indies	498	145.4	3.41	236	2	won		v Australia	St John's	7 Apr 1984
West Indies	486	158.2	3.06	277	2	won		v India	Bridgetown	15 Apr 1983
West Indies	474	134.3	3.52	474	1	won		v England	St John's	11 Apr 1986
West Indies	470	142.4	3.29	470	1	draw		v India	Georgetown	31 Mar 1983
West Indies	468/9d	155.0	3.01	197	2	draw		v England	St John's	27 Mar 1981
West Indies	468/8d	126.0	3.71	213	2	draw		v Australia	Port of Spain	16 Mar 1984
India	457	126.5	3.60	457	1	draw		v West Indies	St John's	28 Apr 1983
West Indies	455	105.5	4.29	455	1	won		v Pakistan	Bridgetown	23 Apr 1993
West Indies	446	121.5	3.66	446	1	won		v England	Bridgetown	5 Apr 1990
West Indies	446	120.5	3.69	186	2	won		v England	St John's	12 Apr 1990
West Indies	442	163.1	2.70	157	2	draw		v England	Kingston	10 Apr 1981
New Zealand	440	151.5	2.89	-71	2	draw		v West Indies	Georgetown	6 Apr 1985
West Indies	438	110.2	3.96	438	1	draw		v Pakistan	St John's	1 May 1993
West Indies	437	141.0	3.09	437	1	draw		v India	Georgetown	25 Mar 1989
Pakistan	435	122.0	3.56	143	2	won		v West Indies	Georgetown	2 Apr 1988
Australia	429	149.5	2.86	429	1	lost		v West Indies	Bridgetown	30 Mar 1984
West Indies	426/9d	147.0	2.89	426	1	won		v England	Port of Spain	13 Feb 1981
West Indies	418	126.1	3.31	418	1	won		v England	Bridgetown	21 Mar 1986
West Indies	407	123.0	3.30	173	2	won		v England	Kingston	19 Feb 1994
Australia	403	108.0	3.73	403	1	won		v West Indies	St John's	27 Apr 1991
West Indies	399	104.4	3.81	223	2	won		v England	Port of Spain	7 Mar 1986
West Indies	394	138.3	2.84	219	2	draw		v India	Port of Spain	11 Mar 1983
West Indies	384	123.5	3.10	95	2	won		v India	Kingston	28 Apr 1989

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=4;innings_number=1;innings_number=2;orderby=team_score;spanmax1=31+Dec+1995;spanmin1=01+Jan+1980;spanval1=span;team=1;team=140;team=2;team=3;team=4;team=5;team=6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=team;view=innings

 

 

 

First two as in 1 and 2 innings, buddy.

Obviously, an ATG batting lineup like WI of the 80s will kill it against crappy attacks regularly.

 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

First two as in 1 and 2 innings, buddy.

Obviously, an ATG batting lineup like WI of the 80s will kill it against crappy attacks regularly.

 

I  gave stats for 1 and 2 innings only

 

These stats are against all attacks....not just crappy ones.  The WI  batting was at its best between 1974 and 1985...after which the stars aged or retired  and there was Lara in the '90s.

 

Between 1996 and 1999...there were 18 more tests played and 9 more 380 + scores registered in the WI  in innings 1 and 2.

[Muloghonto]

11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I  gave stats for 1 and 2 innings only

 

These stats are against all attacks....not just crappy ones.  The WI  batting was at its best between 1974 and 1985...after which the stars aged or retired  and there was Lara in the '90s.

 

Between 1996 and 1999...there were 18 more tests played and 9 more 380 + scores registered in the WI  in innings 1 and 2.

er no, your stats are not for tests where both 1 & 2 innings have gone 350+. Yours is either or both 1,2.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

er no, your stats are not for tests where both 1 & 2 innings have gone 350+. Yours is either or both 1,2.

Very few teams scored decently against the WI attack of the '80s...even if the pitches were flat.   

 

 

[Brainfade]

The real question is: Is Jayant Yadav heading towards the league of the great Ravichandran Ashwin :-) ?

[vvvslaxman]

Kapil did not do justice to his batting skill.  

[Cricketics]

18 minutes ago, Moth2Flame said:

The real question is: Is Jayant Yadav heading towards the league of the great Ravichandran Ashwin :-) ?

Let him take at least 4-5 fifers and score at least 2-3 centuries, after that we can think about discussing that