Is Ashwin heading towards the league of the great Kapil Dev?

[Cricketics]

Kapil Dev was one of the greatest All Rounders to have come out of India.

 

I Was reading Kapil Dev's stats, he averaged 32 in test with the bat and scored   8 centuries. Ashwin already has 4 and averages about 34. 

 

Kapil dev scored over 5000 runs in test. Ashwin is far away from it, has about 1600 right now, but surely is looking all set to be one of our greatest all rounders like Kapil Dev.

 

 

Kapil Dev must have been terrific with the 434 wickets he took, Ashwin will surely reach close to that if not more. He is a spinner, so can go longer.

 

To me, Ashwin is one of the best things happened to Indian test team in recent times. His consistency with both bat and the ball has really balanced the side well and has given option to captain to play an extra bowler. 

 

I wish I watched Kapil live. Those who did, can share their views here. Would love to hear about him and what you think about Ashwin being one of them like Kapil. 

 

 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Ashwin is a better bowler.Lesser batsman.

[narenpande1]

 

Being an all rounder is mighty straining on the body. 

 

With all due respect to Kapil, Ashwin has  2X the potential as a bowler to serve India over the next 5 years and win us dozens of series.

 

Since we are never reliable in  the pace bowling department - I would like Ashwin the bowler at his A game 90 % of the time rather 

than a bowling allrounder with compromised bowling.

 

In short - I would rather have Ashwin do for us at home atleast for a few years,  what Muralitharan did for Lanka.

[fineleg]

Kapil Dev was a fast medium bowler as well and opened the bowling. Tremendous asset. As great as Ashwin can be, he will NEVER be Kapil Dev - for the simple fact that Kapil Dev offered us seamer all-rounder (and a world class allrounder) that we have never ever since had in Indian cricket history. (Hardik Pandya cannot come REMOTELY close).

And Kapil Dev's fielding >>>>>>>>>>> R. Ashwin

Edited November 27, 2016 by fineleg

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Ashwin is a better bowler.Lesser batsman.

I think Ashwin is a better batsman for test cricket technically. Kapil was a better hitter, more suited to LOIs.

[rkt.india]

46 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Kapil Dev was a fast medium bowler as well and opened the bowling. Tremendous asset. As great as Ashwin can be, he will NEVER be Kapil Dev - for the simple fact that Kapil Dev offered us seamer all-rounder (and a world class allrounder) that we have never ever since had in Indian cricket history. (Hardik Pandya cannot come REMOTELY close).

And Kapil Dev's fielding >>>>>>>>>>> R. Ashwin

How many spin bowling alrounder we had? Alorunder is alrounder, does not matter whether pacer or a spinner and why you bring Pandya into this. He has not even played a test yet. Be will come close or not can only be decided once he plays for a length time.

[Texan]

I would like to see Ashwin get wickets in England, Aus, SA and NZ before considering him on par with Kapil. Also, lets not forget that before Kapil we did not have a single pacer of any note and even when he was playing he was largely doing a solo job. Also, for those who haven't watched him bat, he was a much better batsman than those stats suggest. In my opinion, among the 4 allrounders at that time, he was the best among them in batting. 

 

But I do agree that Ashwin is the best thing to have happened to Indian cricket in recent times. Have to give some credit to Kohli as well for trusting Ashwin's batting skills and giving him the confidence to bat higher. 

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, Texan said:

I would like to see Ashwin get wickets in England, Aus, SA and NZ before considering him on par with Kapil. Also, lets not forget that before Kapil we did not have a single pacer of any note and even when he was playing he was largely doing a solo job. Also, for those who haven't watched him bat, he was a much better batsman than those stats suggest. In my opinion, among the 4 allrounders at that time, he was the best among them in batting. 

 

But I do agree that Ashwin is the best thing to have happened to Indian cricket in recent times. Have to give some credit to Kohli as well for trusting Ashwin's batting skills and giving him the confidence to bat higher. 

How much potential you have does not matter until it reflects in the stats? He was a much better batsman than what his stats shows is a futile argument when someone has played 131 tests.

 

Regarding, him taking wickets in those places. England he might if he finds drier pitches. Cant see him doing well in Aus, SA, NZ. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by rkt.india

[Sandeep99]

Let us not over burden Ashwin.. a half century once in a while is alright, but I want our actual 'batsmen' to perform. Looks like they are leaving everything to Ashwin... poor guy is still performing..

[express bowling]

Kapil Dev was the first proper pacer to succeed  as a bowler for independent India.   Before that, we did not really have proper pacers...apart from maybe Ramakant Desai.  In that way, Kapil, the pacer , will be unmatched ever...as being a pioneer in a field, which did not come easily to Indians,  and  reaching the level that he did  without any proper infrastructure, support or idol from his country, is very very difficult.

 

Kapil was also a better all-condition bowler than Ashwin, from 1978 to 1984 ... till he injured his knee in 1984. Did really well in India, Australia, West Indies and NZ.

 

Ashwin, the bowler, is a bigger match winner than Kapil in India.  Needs to improve his outside Asia performances as a bowler.

 

Kapil, the batsman, was also a sort of pioneer, in the sense that he was perhaps the first stroke player from India to average more than 30 in test matches. He had a phenomenal SR of 95 in ODIs...which is like 130 nowadays. He was a very powerful hitter of the cricket ball.  He was not very dependable though.

 

Ashwin is a more dependable batsman in test matches.  Has a much better technique. He will never match Kapil in ODIs.

 

Overall....Ashwin in very good but Kapil will be ahead in my book as he was a pioneer in the fast bowling department for India.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by express bowling

[coffee_rules]

Kapil Dev in batting can be compared to Sehwag. Prodigal in hand-eye coordination and stroke-making..once it waned, he was a plonker at best. Ashwin is a straight bat classical mold. But KD has turned some of the games with his batting, Ashwin is promising, I think he will get there. Please score a 100 in Mohali and be like Kapil..

[vvvslaxman]

In terms of stats yes. In terms of style he is a bit like positive version of Shastri.

[kubrickian]

Ashwin is certainly second best to Kapil bar none from India. He already averages around 35 with the bat and under 25 with the ball after 40 tests which is phenomenal. He still has to achieve a lot to be considered among the league of great all rounders like Kapil, Hadlee, Imran, Botham etc.

 

If he can end up with 400+ wickets and 4000 runs, he will belong there and he is certainly headed in that direction. I can certainly see him doing lot better in England. In SA and Aus, perhaps he needs to modify his action or game plan a bit. But good thing about Ashwin is that he is damn smart and he can certainly learn and adapt.

[Chrish]

He has a potential to be GOAT spin all-rounder overtaking Benaud..

[maniac]

5 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Ashwin is a better bowler.Lesser batsman.

What the hell are you talking about.....Ashwin yes will be our 2nd greatest allrounder of all time when he finishes but ....Ashwin is a better bowler Lol,where are you getting this from.

 

Kapil was the only fast bowler when still spin was our main weapon and still won games for us in all conditions be it England,Aus,WI.

 

Ashwin has been taking bucketloads of wickets at home but still he has got nothing on the great Kapil Dev.

 

As a fielder,batsman and bowler Kapil is way better than Ashwin and that is not degrading Ashwin but just a fact of how good Kapil actually was.

 

The only thing Kapil did wrong was overstaying his welcome which makes the relatively newer fans think he was an average trundler.

 

 

[speedster]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Kapil Dev was the first proper pacer to succeed  as a bowler for independent India.   Before that, we did not really have proper pacers...apart from maybe Ramakant Desai.  In that way, Kapil, the pacer , will be unmatched ever...as being a pioneer in a field, which did not come easily to Indians,  and  reaching the level that he did  without any proper infrastructure, support or idol from his country, is very very difficult.

 

Kapil was also a better all-condition bowler than Ashwin, from 1978 to 1985... till he injured his knee in 1986. Did really well in India, Australia, West Indies and NZ.

 

Ashwin, the bowler, is a bigger match winner than Kapil in India.  Needs to improve his outside Asia performances as a bowler.

 

Kapil, the batsman, was also a sort of pioneer, in the sense that he was perhaps the first stroke player from India to average more than 30 in test matches. He had a phenomenal SR of 95 in ODIs...which is like 130 nowadays. He was a very powerful hitter of the cricket ball.  He was not very dependable though.

 

Ashwin is a more dependable batsman in test matches.  Has a much better technique. He will never match Kapil in ODIs.

 

Overall....Ashwin in very good but Kapil will be ahead in my book as he was a pioneer in the fast bowling department for India.

 

 

Absolutely, he was our main bowler and he won us matches in 80's with very little support at the other end, the likes of Binny senior, Madan Lal etc were not match winners by any stretch of the imagination, while Kapil Dev's bowling average worsened in the later part of his career, he was a true match winner for us with the ball in all conditions. With bat it is said that his technique wasn't great but he has centuries in West Indies (the pitches were a lot different then!), South Africa and England in test matches and added to all this his excellent fielding. Ashwin is doing quite well but he has a long way to go yet

[Cricketics]

40 minutes ago, maniac said:

What the hell are you talking about.....Ashwin yes will be our 2nd greatest allrounder of all time when he finishes but ....Ashwin is a better bowler Lol,where are you getting this from.

 

Kapil was the only fast bowler when still spin was our main weapon and still won games for us in all conditions be it England,Aus,WI.

 

Ashwin has been taking bucketloads of wickets at home but still he has got nothing on the great Kapil Dev.

 

As a fielder,batsman and bowler Kapil is way better than Ashwin and that is not degrading Ashwin but just a fact of how good Kapil actually was.

 

The only thing Kapil did wrong was overstaying his welcome which makes the relatively newer fans think he was an average trundler.

 

 

How much did you watch Kapil playing? Not trying to question your comment but want to seriously know how you found him , the batsman. I was bit too young to watch him play live but from the highlights and stats, he seems like the player who would be any team's perfect trump card. He 

27 minutes ago, speedster said:

Absolutely, he was our main bowler and he won us matches in 80's with very little support at the other end, the likes of Binny senior, Madan Lal etc were not match winners by any stretch of the imagination, while Kapil Dev's bowling average worsened in the later part of his career, he was a true match winner for us with the ball in all conditions. With bat it is said that his technique wasn't great but he has centuries in West Indies (the pitches were a lot different then!), South Africa and England in test matches and added to all this his excellent fielding. Ashwin is doing quite well but he has a long way to go yet

Interesting you mentioned about his centuries in all those countries. Shows he was really a stalwart in all the departments.  Scoring against Botham and co in England wasn't the easiest and against the windies' greats at their home is always going to take something special 

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

In terms of stats yes. In terms of style he is a bit like positive version of Shastri.

Yes, that's what I made it it from his technique bit then he had this ability of coming down the track and tryingto hit big sixes from what I saw in highlights. Wasn't his style more like that of KP at times who could switch the role and start scoring at a decent rate and also would be easily able to play the proper test match innings, rotating his way to 50 runs easily. 

 

Short ball? Was he good at playing it? 

[Cricketics]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I think Ashwin is a better batsman for test cricket technically. Kapil was a better hitter, more suited to LOIs.

How much you saw him live? He could play short ball easily?  Hitting of course from what it looks like, does not seem to be Ashwin's strength as he likes to drive etc and rotate more. How about his centuries he scored overseas. Those must have needed some good grinding and proper test cricket batting those times. Especially in South Africa and West Imdies where bowlers would keep bouncing the ball without any limit. 

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

How much did you watch Kapil playing? Not trying to question your comment but want to seriously know how you found him , the batsman. I was bit too young to watch him play live but from the highlights and stats, he seems like the player who would be any team's perfect trump card. He 

Interesting you mentioned about his centuries in all those countries. Shows he was really a stalwart in all the departments.  Scoring against Botham and co in England wasn't the easiest and against the windies' greats at their home is always going to take something special 

Yes, that's what I made it it from his technique bit then he had this ability of coming down the track and tryingto hit big sixes from what I saw in highlights. Wasn't his style more like that of KP at times who could switch the role and start scoring at a decent rate and also would be easily able to play the proper test match innings, rotating his way to 50 runs easily. 

 

Short ball? Was he good at playing it? 

I actively started watching cricket as a fan from 1991...by that I mean with a full understanding of what's going on...even though I had vague memories of some games as a kid from a few years before. I remember the video of his 4 6s to avoid follow on against hemmings and few other things and mind you not on YouTube.

 

1991-1992 was almost the start of decline of kapil Dev but still he was going strength to strength...he was brilliant in Australia in the b&h series,World Cup in patches and the test matches( those days tests were only highlights on Doordarshan)

 

I did not see the test and I can never find a you tube video of this but scoring a 100 against Donald and co in 92 in those days on those South African pitches adds to his legacy. For me not waqar, not wasim, not Ambrose, not Walsh but Donald was the most feared bowler because by 1991 on speed alone those were a notch below Donald by then. 

 

He he was struggling to get wickets but still he would have an economy of 2 or 3 in the first 5-6 overs in Odis and always almost get the early breakthrough in tests.

 

I remember watching live the moment he became the highest ODI wicket taker in the world(I think in the sharjah game) and then the highest test wicket taker in srilanka.

 

now sure he might have overstayed to achieve this much like sachin's 100 100s but as a young kid watching an Indian bowler let alone an Indian fast bowler have these records was surreal.

 

he was the highest odI and test wicket taker for a while before wasim overtook him almost pretty soon and Walsh a bit later.

 

I saw his hitting in that World Cup game against pak in that famous partnership with sachin who went on to win his first of 3 man of the matches against Pakistan in world cups. One of the 6s he hit on that huge ground is still etched in my memory.

 

And to add to this already all this legacy built around his World Cup victory and his 175* at turnbtidge wells Kapil was my first sporting super hero just like sachin is to a lot of kids who stared watching say even from the late 90s even though missing a decade of his greatness.

 

surprisingly 2 of my most favorite cricketeing heroes appeared for the last time on a cricketing field against westindies.

 

Dhoni who was our 2nd best MVP after Kapil will be replaced but to replace Kapil Dev will take some doing...hell it has been 22 years since his retirement and we haven't even come close.

 

[Cricketics]

5 hours ago, fineleg said:

Kapil Dev was a fast medium bowler as well and opened the bowling. Tremendous asset. As great as Ashwin can be, he will NEVER be Kapil Dev - for the simple fact that Kapil Dev offered us seamer all-rounder (and a world class allrounder) that we have never ever since had in Indian cricket history. (Hardik Pandya cannot come REMOTELY close).

And Kapil Dev's fielding >>>>>>>>>>> R. Ashwin

Glad you mentioned the fielding. He took some amazing catches.The world cup, running one will be his greatest because of the player he caught and the occasion. Ashwin is far away from that as a fielder. Kapil seemed more athletic, someone India idolised, Ashwin is not someone like that right now who is the household name of every Indian. My dad was telling me that every time Kapil came to bat or bowl, people expected him to perform well. Ashwin kind of gives that feeling, and I am liking that. 

 

That is one thing Ashwin can look to learn from Kapil Dev's legacy. Regarding you saying he will never be the bowler Kapil was, well lets not go there as both are different kind of bowlers. So regardless of Kapil giving us seamer option in different wickets, all rounder is an rounder whether spinner or pacer. That said, yes I would like to point out that next time when Ashwin tour the big four places, he has to score runs or at least 2 centuries to seal his place completely in the Kapil's club.