CPEC has ZERO economic viability, its a massive cost. Is the purpose something else?

[Tibarn]

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/08/pakistan-slice-china-islamabad-170830081303813.html

Quote

Islamabad, Pakistan - Sitting in his open-air kitchen in the heart of a busy shopping centre in Pakistan's capital Islamabad, Zhang Yan Xu does not seem to have a care in the world.

The tall, broad-shouldered chef seems a genial sort, who exults in his inability to communicate with his customers.

"No English," he says, smiling broadly. "No Urdu."

Behind him, his wife looks up briefly from the chopping board, before getting back to the serious business of rolling and folding fresh dumplings for the customers downstairs.

The Xus work at Hong Du Ramen, the latest in a glut of Chinese restaurants, grocery stores, guesthouses and language centres to open up across Pakistan, aimed mainly at the country's growing population of Chinese citizens.

The influx has been fuelled by the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), a $56bn project that is seeing Chinese companies build roads, power plants and industrial zones across the South Asian country.

Two years after it was announced, CPEC's first "early harvest" infrastructure projects are now coming online, with work under way on dozens more.

Zhang Yan Xu, the chef at Islamabad's Hong Du Ramen, works in an open air kitchen in a busy shopping plaza in Pakistan's capital, blissfully unable to communicate with most Pakistanis [Asad Hashim/Al Jazeera]

"This year is, as we call it, the year of early harvest," says Lijian Zhao, China's deputy ambassador to Pakistan. "The ultimate goal is to help Pakistan to develop the economy … to help to accelerate the industrialisation process."

The 43 projects that directly fall under the CPEC banner have seen a tripling of the number of Chinese nationals resident in Pakistan to more than 30,000, according to the Chinese embassy in Islamabad. In addition, Reuters reported, that more than 71,000 Chinese nationals visited on short-term visas last year.

As more Chinese engineers, managers and workers flood into the country, Pakistan has seen a mushrooming of supermarkets, guesthouses and other businesses catering specifically to Chinese needs.

Zhao, the Chinese deputy ambassador, says he's a regular visitor to the new Chinese grocery stores, stocking up on traditional ingredients that are just not available anywhere else in the South Asian country.

"I go for those markets. [Even the embassy] cannot bring everything from China," he says.

Chinese grocery stores appear to have no trouble importing pork products, whose production and import are illegal in Pakistan under Islamic injunctions.

'Arrived in Beijing'

The aptly named Firstop (a portmanteau of 'First Stop') is one of the largest such stores in Islamabad. The supermarket's shelves are lined with products manufactured in China: everything from noodles to hardhat construction helmets, sea kelp to stationery, spice mixes to industrial meat grinders.

As a Chinese migrant moving to Islamabad, whether you are looking for a quick meal or to procure the equipment and supplies to set up your own restaurant, it looks like Firstop has got you covered. Most of the demand, though, seems to be for food - both ready-made and ingredients - that are not available in typical Pakistani grocery stores, says Zhang Song, a store manager.

"Mostly the food and other seasonings are imported from China," says Song, in broken English. "Only [the cooking] oil is from Pakistan. Others all from China."

Song, a 29-year-old originally from He Bei province in China, says he moved to Pakistan two years ago to take advantage of the boom in businesses aimed at Chinese citizens.

"Most customers are Chinese people," he says.

Chinese Ramen tends to be an acquired taste for many Pakistanis, but dumplings are always a favourite, say staff at Islamabad's Hong Du Ramen [Asad Hashim/Al Jazeera]

Pakistanis, he says, seem to be fond of making Chinese food, but the South Asian version of Chinese food - heavy on garlic, ginger and tomatoes - does not necessarily fit the bill of actual Chinese fare.

"[Traditional] Chinese food is too much different from Pakistani food," he says, smiling.

At the Ni Hao Cash & Carry, a few kilometres away, the scene is much the same. The small store is crammed with row upon row of products labelled in Chinese, with an array of spices arranged in open containers near the back wall.

"A lot of [Pakistanis] walk in and are shocked … they see everything in Chinese here, and wonder perhaps if they've arrived in Beijing," says Rizwan Hassan, a manager at the store.

Hassan and business partner Eraj Raza have been working with Chinese nationals on infrastructure projects for the last seven years, and set up this store about six months ago.

"We built the store because we saw CPEC, and all the companies coming in," says Raza. "Lots of investors are coming in. People are opening restaurants, guesthouses, or other services."

About 90 percent of their customers, says Raza, are Chinese, with the rest made up mostly of Koreans, Thais and other East Asian visitors. Ni Hao also operates another store in Karachi, Pakistan's largest city and commercial capital, as well as smaller outlets at more than half a dozen CPEC project sites.

The language barrier is a major stumbling block for many Chinese visitors, says Hassan. Most Chinese do not speak Urdu, Pakistan's native language, or English, which is spoken by a smaller subset of Pakistanis.
As such, he says, the Chinese seem to be setting up a parallel world in the South Asian country.

"Right now, there is a whole Chinese life here," says Hassan, who speaks broken Mandarin. "There are thousands of Chinese people in Islamabad, and they have everything they need to live comfortably. Now they even have clubs for them … everything is provided to them."

The Huashang Weekly, launched in early 2017, is Pakistan's first Chinese-language weekly and is aimed at Chinese migrants working on CPEC projects [Asad Hashim/Al Jazeera]

One of those things, somewhat surprisingly in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, is pork. The import and consumption of pork, which is forbidden in Islam, is illegal in Pakistan.

On Ni Hao's shelves, however, you will find everything from pig snouts to trotters, from sausage to dried ham cuts.

Raza says customs officials at Pakistan's borders are not able to decipher the Chinese labels on most imported food products, and so Ni Hao is able to steer clear of trouble. But more than that, he says, if products are marked in Chinese, customs officials seem less inclined to check them.

"It's already happening, obviously. The products are coming in, so that means they are allowing it."
Pakistani customs officials denied to Al Jazeera that any such policy was in place.

CPEC creating a market

In addition to warping social norms, the $56bn CPEC, seems to be creating a market of its own, too.
"Pakistan will bid farewell to its energy shortage" exclaims the headline of a recent issue of the Huashang Weekly, Pakistan's first Chinese-language newspaper, which distributes 5,000 copies a week to major cities and CPEC project sites across Pakistan.

"It's meant to be like a bridge between Pakistan and China," says Inam ur Rahman, a manager at Infoshare, the company which runs the newspaper. "Chinese people who come here, they don't know much about Pakistan, whether in terms of business or even our culture."

Infoshare, a Shanghai-based company, has already launched a number of Chinese-focused ventures in Pakistan. The newspaper - a glossy tabloid that charges roughly $1,000 for a full page advertisement - is one, but they also run a Chinese-language courier service, and are launching a smartphone app that will allow Chinese-speakers to order food from Pakistani restaurants.

"I think a lot of companies are developing to take advantage of this Chinese influx," says Rehman. "Our company is doing the same."

Security concerns

Security remains a concern for most foreigners visiting Pakistan, which has been battling the Pakistan Taliban (known by the acronym, TTP) armed group and its allies since 2007. In June, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, known as ISIS) claimed to have killed a Chinese couple running a language training centre in the southwestern city of Quetta.

The killings prompted the Pakistani interior ministry to announce a tightening of visas for Chinese visitors, to ensure they were kept better track of. Pakistan has also formed a 15,000-strong security force specifically for the protection of Chinese citizens and CPEC projects.

"When some Chinese people are in Pakistan, it is a foreign country for them and they don't know very well [the situation]," says Zhao, the deputy ambassador, adding that the embassy had stepped up its security advisories to citizens in response to the attack.

Questions of security, however, seem far from Zhang Yan Xu's mind, as he and his wife prepare for the afternoon rush at Hong Du Ramen.

At the small hole-in-the-wall restaurant, waiter Ahsan Ibrar tends to the salads lying on the sideboard. Customers are expected to help themselves, he says. There are no frills and no fuss. No menu, either: the restaurant only serves its eponymous noodles. The few signs and the writing on the restaurant's whiteboard are all in Chinese.

"No one speaks English," exclaims Ibrar, who was hired as a cleaner but was quickly promoted to cashier and translator-in-chief (a fact only somewhat hampered by the fact that he does not speak Chinese). 
It scarcely seems to matter, though. Business is booming, he says, and there is more than enough money to go around.

 

[veer]

Some of you guys are more worried than Pakistan's PRIME/Finance/Foreign Ministers about CPEC and pakistan's well being...

[mishra]

22 hours ago, veer said:

Some of you guys are more worried than Pakistan's PRIME/Finance/Foreign Ministers about CPEC and pakistan's well being...

No Man. Who cares about Pakistan. Most comments are centered towards our insecirity vis a vis to China as people are rightly worried about growing encirclement. We know, No other country or its people apart from Pakistan is so blind in its Hate that they will burn their own houses just in hope that Chinese may be able to kick our butt.

Yes, CPEC is one region China can potentially attack India in the event of serious war.

Edited September 7, 2017 by mishra

[mishra]

Pakistanis feeling twist under ribs. Although they report this as "Trump Administration believes" but I can only read below as assertive.

 

https://www.geo.tv/latest/161537-us-says-cpec-passes-through-disputed-territory

Quote

The Trump administration has said it believes the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) passes through disputed territory — an allegation originally levelled by India to thwart the multibillion-dollar project.

The $56 billion CPEC passes through Pakistan’s northern areas, which India claims is part of the disputed Jammu and Kashmir territory.

“The One Belt, One Road also goes through the disputed territory, and I think that in itself shows the vulnerability of trying to establish that sort of a dictate,” US Defence Secretary James Mattis told the Senate Armed Services Committee earlier this week, when he and Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff General Joseph Dunford appeared before the Senate and House armed services panel to brief US lawmakers on the current situation in the Pak-Afghan region.

 

 

[KeyboardWarrior]

^ so US forgt that they have already build something in that "disputed territory" ..... 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangla_Dam

 

but whatever .... 

Edited October 10, 2017 by KeyboardWarrior

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

^ so US forgt that they have already build something in that "disputed territory" ..... 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangla_Dam

 

but whatever .... 

They are tacitly admitting their own error in the past. 

[mishra]

I am loving this CPEC project now. Pakistan Forex reserve, One of the key indicators of Fiscal status of a country, for first time fallen below $20 billion (19.7 billion precisely).

 

Now their army general Bajwa is talking economics and tax base and good relations with Afghanistan and India while PM is saying Kashmir (PoK) is not a disputed territory.

 

Pakistanis can say whatever they want, but all they need to do is when and how their forex has started declining. To help them understand, Burhan Wani meeting the hoors and Uri attack in Sept 2016 coincides with the alaming reverse trend in their forex reserve.

 

Lesson for Indian politicians. Snakes will remain snake. Must continue striking where it hurts

Edited October 12, 2017 by mishra

[KeyboardWarrior]

9 hours ago, mishra said:

I am loving this CPEC project now. Pakistan Forex reserve, One of the key indicators of Fiscal status of a country, for first time fallen below $20 billion (19.7 billion precisely).

 

Now their army general Bajwa is talking economics and tax base and good relations with Afghanistan and India while PM is saying Kashmir (PoK) is not a disputed territory.

 

Pakistanis can say whatever they want, but all they need to do is when and how their forex has started declining. To help them understand, Burhan Wani meeting the hoors and Uri attack in Sept 2016 coincides with the alaming reverse trend in their forex reserve.

 

Lesson for Indian politicians. Snakes will remain snake. Must continue striking where it hurts

kuch bhi...

what this have to do with pakistan eco ? 

[mishra]

3 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

kuch bhi...

what this have to do with pakistan eco ? 

There is a speech of Shushma Swaraj in Indian Parliament, where she says Delhi decided to not trust Pakistan and play Fire with fire (hostile and alienation), only and only after Pakistani establishment started making noises over Burhan Wani.

If ISI can bleed India with Terrorists , then India too has pottential to impact not just Pakistan but most Asian countries with its economic clout. And efforts are paying

Edited October 12, 2017 by mishra

[KeyboardWarrior]

44 minutes ago, mishra said:

There is a speech of Shushma Swaraj in Indian Parliament, where she says Delhi decided to not trust Pakistan and play Fire with fire (hostile and alienation), only and only after Pakistani establishment started making noises over Burhan Wani.

If ISI can bleed India with Terrorists , then India too has pottential to impact not just Pakistan but most Asian countries with its economic clout. And efforts are paying

Okay .... 

[mishra]

14 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Okay .... 

Okay what??? Do u want to say that a market of over a billion,  whuch even China cant afford to ignore is no use to Pakistan, or do u think Shushma is lieing in parliament? She says “kahani badrang tab huyee” ie relation ship broke. Now try getting that graph up all you want, or chk how bad it was and how quickly it improved when Modi was saying happy bday to Nawaz

Edited October 12, 2017 by mishra

[mishra]

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1541022/1-afghan-president-refuses-join-cpec-access-india-blocked/

 

^ Afghanistan says no to CPEC. Since Chinese have muscel, I believe BRI connectivity will be between Afghanistan Chna without using CPEC.

 

 

Few days back when Pakistani general Qamar Jawad  met Afghanistan premier Ghani he told that he is open to talks with India on transit route but India turned it down as India certainly doesnt trust Pakistan anymore

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-turns-down-pak-offer-of-talks-on-transit-trade-to-afghanistan/article19941006.ece

 

Tis port is open and connectivity between India, Iran and Afghanistan is open. Despite massive opposition of Trump against Iranian, The Iranian port has blessing of US and Israel. Now thats called a Diplomatic coup/punch.

 

 

And before any one jumping guns, This is what was p[ublished in South China Morning Post.

 

Quote

What do you get if you cross Pakistan’s Game of Thrones and China’s Belt and Road?

..

..

While pushing the US$62 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) in a massive vote of confidence in its “all-weather ally”, Chinese officials have quietly encouraged their Pakistani partners to facilitate the success of the project by abandoning its decades-old pursuit of strategic objectives in Afghanistan and Kashmir through the support of non-state jihadis.

These terror outfits have for years been a major bone of contention between Pakistan’s powerful military and its civilian government.

he confrontation began soon after Nawaz Sharif was appointed prime minister in June 2013. He sought to restrict the public activities of Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, chief of the Jamaat-ud-Dawah (JuD) group responsible for the 2008 Mumbai terror attack, and pushed for greater trade ties with India as a way to resume peace talks. The military blocked the move.

..

..

The civil-military stand-off grew as a consequence of the ISI’s leading role in a Supreme Court case that led to Sharif’s ousting in late July on corruption charges, and his disqualification for life from holding public office and leading a political party. Sharif has claimed to be the victim of a plot by political rivals to undermine the CPEC.

..

..

Pakistan’s economy has grown by an average of more than 5 per cent over the two years since the launch of CPEC and is on course to accelerate to 6 per cent. Chinese diplomats, therefore, were dismayed by the criticism of the government’s handling of the economy by the Pakistani military’s chief spokesman, Major General Asif Ghafoor, who added to the negative political narrative of CPEC in a recent interview. Ahsan Iqbal, the minister overseeing the project’s implementation, demanded the army general “refrain from commenting on the economy … [because] irresponsible statements could damage Pakistan’s image globally”.

 

..

..

he US has also locked step with India by voicing opposition to the routing of CPEC through the Gilgit-Baltistan region of disputed Kashmir, casting it as an integral part of its Asia-wide strategic competition with China. “The [Belt and Road] also goes through the disputed territory, and I think that in itself shows the vulnerability of trying to establish that sort of a diktat,” US Defence Secretary James Mattis told the Senate armed services committee last month, using another name for China’s initiative.

During his tour of the region, Tillerson is understood to have leveraged the Afghan government’s existential reliance on the US to persuade President Ashraf Ghani to withdraw his support for the extension of CPEC into Afghanistan. Pakistan would be denied overland access to Central Asia through Afghanistan unless it allowed trade between Afghanistan and India to flow through CPEC infrastructure, Ghani said, in an address to Vivekananda International Foundation think tank in New Delhi on Wednesday.

The growing opposition to CPEC reflected a “natural strategic partnership” between the US and India, said Akram Zaki, Pakistan’s former chief diplomat and the architect of its modern-day relationship with China.

 

“The US’ South Asia policy has become India-centric in return for India’s endorsement of the US policy of seeking to contain China in the Indo-Pacific. Their pressure on Pakistan is an attempt to force it to downgrade its relationship with China,” he said. “But it won’t succeed. Despite the power struggle within Pakistan, the civilian and military leadership are in consensus on this, and China is not going to surrender its first-ever point of access to the Indian Ocean.”

Pakistanis and their territorial ambitions. Kashmir (UN resolution aka Independence), NWFP (Durand Line) and now Indian ocean. And some Pakistani posters claimed it was about trade and economics

 

[KeyboardWarrior]

wrong info about Gen Bajwa . Gen Qamar javed bajwa never said these things. Its the indian media again making all the assumptions.

btw pakistani govt always said it from day one that OBOR/CPEC is for all countries in the region (inculding india). 

Edited October 30, 2017 by KeyboardWarrior

[dial_100]

Ghar ke bartan bech kha gaye. Abhi aur kuch bartan (gwadar) bik raha hai. Kashkol leke khate hote ho. 

 

Pata nahi quom kaise soti hai rat ko. Khoon nahi khaulta tumhara? par din bhar Kashmir kashmir karna nahi bhoolte. I dont really understand the people of pakistan. Human resource development is key in nation building. I never see any pakistani abroad ever takes any initiative to educate poor kids. They are wasted in Madrassas but nobody gives a hoot. Here you guys are selling your country that too to chinese. I dont know if i will be arround but in 25 years, you will know it.

[mishra]

13 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

wrong info about Gen Bajwa . Gen Qamar javed bajwa never said these things. Its the indian media again making all the assumptions.

btw pakistani govt always said it from day one that OBOR/CPEC is for all countries in the region (inculding india). 

Pakistani media. BTW there is no harm if Bajwa tried to intervene because, Now even Afghanistan don't give a **** about what your so called democratically elected government has to say unless Pakistani army backs it.

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2017/10/29/india-turns-down-pak-offer-of-talks-on-transit-trade-to-afghanistan-reports/

Quote

Following its rejection of Pakistan’s offer for talks on transit trade to Afghanistan, India on Sunday shipped its first consignment to the war-torn country by sea through Iran’s strategic Chahbahar Port, launching a trade route bypassing Pakistan.

..

..

 

[mishra]

13 hours ago, dial_100 said:

Ghar ke bartan bech kha gaye. Abhi aur kuch bartan (gwadar) bik raha hai. Kashkol leke khate hote ho. 

 

Pata nahi quom kaise soti hai rat ko. Khoon nahi khaulta tumhara? par din bhar Kashmir kashmir karna nahi bhoolte. I dont really understand the people of pakistan. Human resource development is key in nation building. I never see any pakistani abroad ever takes any initiative to educate poor kids. They are wasted in Madrassas but nobody gives a hoot. Here you guys are selling your country that too to chinese. I dont know if i will be arround but in 25 years, you will know it.

Pakistan can not trade with India, Pakistan can not trade with Afghanistan as common sense would say that these two ought to be there biggest trading partners. Its just a matter of time when Afghanistan will  completely block all trade routes with Pakistan. IMO "2019 Pakistan" = "1916 North Korea"

 

PS: Our libtards allways say, why MFN status to Pakistan if we are stopping bilateral cricket or bilateral talks. Think if in 2020 India revokes MFN status and actively blocks border trade

Edited October 31, 2017 by mishra

[dial_100]

5 hours ago, mishra said:

Pakistani media. BTW there is no harm if Bajwa tried to intervene because, Now even Afghanistan don't give a **** about what your so called democratically elected government has to say unless Pakistani army backs it.

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2017/10/29/india-turns-down-pak-offer-of-talks-on-transit-trade-to-afghanistan-reports/

 

 

5 hours ago, mishra said:

Quote

Following its rejection of Pakistan’s offer for talks on transit trade to Afghanistan, India on Sunday shipped its first consignment to the war-torn country by sea through Iran’s strategic Chahbahar Port, launching a trade route bypassing Pakistan.

..

..

 

I just dont understand what these guys are made off. Now they have reached to a point where if Indian can benefit $1 and they can earn $0.5 and Afg a $0.5 they are basically saying we will let go our $0.5 to ensure India also loses $1. This is disgusting mind. They are not normal people, the government, Army and people (People because they elect govt). They dont understand that India is not the same poor country. We will find solutions to every problem but this conundrum in general called Pakistan is much beyond solving.

[mishra]

4 hours ago, dial_100 said:

 

I just dont understand what these guys are made off. Now they have reached to a point where if Indian can benefit $1 and they can earn $0.5 and Afg a $0.5 they are basically saying we will let go our $0.5 to ensure India also loses $1. This is disgusting mind. They are not normal people, the government, Army and people (People because they elect govt). They dont understand that India is not the same poor country. We will find solutions to every problem but this conundrum in general called Pakistan is much beyond solving.

 

Religion was just a excuse, It was hatred, inferiority complex, (both hatred and complex probably a bi product of religion), fear of democracy, selfishness, greed as the real reason to create Pakistan by Muslim elites. Since 1947 they have been trying to get rid of local cultures as they are really afraid of common people uniting. it was evident when they killed millions while creating borders on Western part of India, but no such thing happened at such large scale in Dhaka to Kolkata migration

 

Post independence they tried to instill same ideology in Bangladesh, by genocide of Hindus, but credit to Bongs Muslims for taking a stand for fellow Bangladeshis and culture. And result was Bangladesh.

 

Now  and even now, These Pakistani elites are still selling the same hatred, but there isnt any worth hating Hindu left surviving for local Muslims in their country, so they sell horror stories about treatment of Muslim in India (Kashmir is part of that grand mechanism) but finding it difficult to get support from FATA region as they themselves class as Afghani. Same is true to some extent in Kashmir too. Most Muslim their class them Kashmiri first then Pakistani. Its ones who have been sold the idea of Pakistan are being loaded with money and guns.

 

However, Its have been over 70 years now. World has moved on and Pakistani elites are slowly finding it even more difficult to sell the idea of Pakistan to general population. i.e. in 70s it was Bangladeshis, Now, its FATA region Afghanis.

Bottomline is, There was never a Pakistan, I doubt there will remain a Pakistan unless Pakistani elites embrace that they are sons of Indus valley civilization (Musharraf, has already warned Pakistan to watch out for another partition).

 

PS: During partition A better solution would have been that regions like Bangladesh, current Pakistan, leftover India, should have been declared Federally autonomous and peace would have prevailed. but I think its too late now  for Jinnah, Nehuru to bring back on a table. And I hold British responsible for this mess or not suggesting a solution Because they were convinced that Indians cant govern themselves.

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by mishra

[KeyboardWarrior]

21 hours ago, mishra said:

 

Bottomline is, There was never a Pakistan, I doubt there will remain a Pakistan

 

Sire, can you plz mention the year and date. 

[sandeep]

On 10/31/2017 at 1:44 PM, mishra said:

it was evident when they killed millions while creating borders on Western part of India, but no such thing happened at such large scale in Dhaka to Kolkata migration

How ignorant can you be.  There were massive riots in Calcutta and East/West Bengal during Partition and even before that - starting with the "direct action" days.    Without Bengali muslims spearheading it, the "Pakistan movement" would have flushed itself down the toilet in a couple of years.   

 

In spite of the Pakistani genocide against them, there's a reason why there's a significant percentage of Bangladeshis who are extremely anti-India.