BeautifulGame Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 India currently needs a Batsman/Keeper in test cricket than a Wicket Keeper/Batsman.Particularly overseas we desperately need a keeper who can bat at six so as to enable us to play 5 bowlers tweaker 1
Muloghonto Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: India currently needs a Batsman/Keeper in test cricket than a Wicket Keeper/Batsman.Particularly overseas we desperately need a keeper who can bat at six so as to enable us to play 5 bowlers I disagree, because if we play 5 overseas bowlers, more than likely it will be Ashwin + Jadeja + 3 pacers. Because we don't have a pool of 4-5 pacers who are good enough for tests, especially when Jadeja can contain with his bowling at the very least and Ashwin should be our strike option. Throw in Bhuvi and our batting order looks like: Vijay <opener> Pujara/another guy Virat Rahane Ashwin <Keeper> Jadeja Bhuvi Ishant Shami That is batting up to #9. Even if we drop Jadeja and play just 1 spinner, thats still batting up to #8. What we don't have, is a bowling attack that will generate 12-15 chances per 110 overs, to compensate for our poor slip cordon and average keeping. We need to hang on to every chance we get and for that, having the best possible keeper is the best option. sandeep 1
BeautifulGame Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: I disagree, because if we play 5 overseas bowlers, more than likely it will be Ashwin + Jadeja + 3 pacers. Because we don't have a pool of 4-5 pacers who are good enough for tests, especially when Jadeja can contain with his bowling at the very least and Ashwin should be our strike option. Throw in Bhuvi and our batting order looks like: Vijay <opener> Pujara/another guy Virat Rahane Ashwin <Keeper> Jadeja Bhuvi Ishant Shami That is batting up to #9. Even if we drop Jadeja and play just 1 spinner, thats still batting up to #8. What we don't have, is a bowling attack that will generate 12-15 chances per 110 overs, to compensate for our poor slip cordon and average keeping. We need to hang on to every chance we get and for that, having the best possible keeper is the best option. Cant play 2 spinners in Australia/Newzealand/SA.Only exception is Sydney. Ashwin is way too high to a no.6 in tests overseas.Saha even at home is batting at 8.Jadeja most likely wont play and neither should Bhuvi in Australia or SA.In that Xi almost eveyone in the lower order is batting one position if not 2 high.Recipe for collapse and disaster. If we want a realistic chance of winning in SA or the road in Australia we need 5 bowling options as well bat deep.Idealy the test line up should be Vijay Rahul Pujara/Rahane Kohli Rahane/Nair Pant Pandya Ashwin Ishant Shami Bumrah (Bhuvi if in England) Obviously a lot depends on the likes of Pant/Pandya/Bumrah coming good but thats the gamble we need to take and groom these youngster with the Aim of overseas tours of 2018/19
express bowling Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: Yes Saha is a better keeper but poorer batsman when compared with Parthiv.So both are below average contributers as Keeper-Batsman.And neither is world class in one aspect to compensate for the other.And Pant has the potential to be . That Pant will come in as the test keeper, IF his keeping is somewhat similar to Saha or better, is a no-brainer. We want it to happen but can't form an opinion till we see him keep. Edited January 12, 2017 by express bowling sandeep 1
BeautifulGame Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 That Pant will come in as the test keeper, IF his keeping is somewhat similar to Saha or better, is a no-brainer. We want it to happen but can't form an opinion till we see him keep. That's why it's crucial he gets that opportunity against the weak teams like Bangladesh and Australia.Ideal chance to test and ease him in It's even more imperative considering we don't have any FC cricket till September/October
express bowling Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: That's why it's crucial he gets that opportunity against the weak teams like Bangladesh and Australia.Ideal chance to test and ease him in It's even more imperative considering we don't have any FC cricket till September/October He has to be tried against Bangladesh first and a decision taken based on that. It would be even better if Pant is used as a keeper in T20Is and MSD as a pure batsman. It would be even better if he is included in the ODI team now as the keeper and MSD plays as a batsman. Such additions have been made in the past. Edited January 12, 2017 by express bowling
BeautifulGame Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 He has to be tried against Bangladesh first and a decision taken based on that. It would be even better if Pant is used as a keeper in T20Is and MSD as a pure batsman. It would be even better if he is included in the ODI team now as the Wk and MSD plays as a batsman. I would definitely like that for atleast Odis .Dhoni could even be a decent seam bowling option in English conditions . But with him not in the England series can't see him being picked for CT
Muloghonto Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: Cant play 2 spinners in Australia/Newzealand/SA.Only exception is Sydney. Ashwin is way too high to a no.6 in tests overseas.Saha even at home is batting at 8.Jadeja most likely wont play and neither should Bhuvi in Australia or SA.In that Xi almost eveyone in the lower order is batting one position if not 2 high.Recipe for collapse and disaster. If we want a realistic chance of winning in SA or the road in Australia we need 5 bowling options as well bat deep.Idealy the test line up should be Vijay Rahul Pujara/Rahane Kohli Rahane/Nair Pant Pandya Ashwin Ishant Shami Bumrah (Bhuvi if in England) Obviously a lot depends on the likes of Pant/Pandya/Bumrah coming good but thats the gamble we need to take and groom these youngster with the Aim of overseas tours of 2018/19 1. RSA pitches are good for Bhuvi too. 2. Spinner or no spinner, the bowling team bowls as a unit. Overseas, our strike options are Shami (pace) & Ashwin (spin). Ishant is going to contain. Bhuvi is a containment bowler who is deadly in swinging conditions and with the new ball anywhere. So thats going to be our top 4 overseas. Whether it is Jadeja or Umesh, it will come down to the form of the other 4. If the other 4 are doing well, we will go with 'sprays the ball around but produces magic balls every once in a while' Umesh, else we will go with the 'bore the batsmen out' Jadeja option. But i cannot see them not playing Bhuvi overseas and that gives you a tail till #8 atleast, if you play 5 bowlers. As per Australia, i'd play two spinners in Adelaide as well- on flat tracks, Jadeja is a better option than no length, no line Umesh. What we absolutely cannot compromise on though, is our keeper's ability. Especially since this is our weakest slip cordon in over 30 years of cricket. As i said, if you look at the history of keepers making their debuts, unless you are a prodigious keeping talent (which Pant hasn't demonstrated), nobody debuts in Tests after just 1 season in FC cricket. Even deKock waited for 3 years. Grooming a keeper is to have him keep in FC cricket and get him to work on his fitness and back strength. Otherwise we end up with an ordinary keeper. Last thing we want, is Pant to turn out like Akmal or Sehzad , who are competent test bats but undercooked in keeping department. And we are not going to make Pant or Kishan into better keepers if they keep thinking that their batting is going to get them in the team. Edited January 12, 2017 by Muloghonto sandeep 1
Bleed-Blue Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Mosher said: I think Ishan was the keeper in U19 WC. No Pant Kept in all WC matches. Edited January 12, 2017 by Bleed-Blue
silly_point Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 keeping should be ok with pacers, concerned about keeping to ashwin. Tricky.
express bowling Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: I would definitely like that for atleast Odis .Dhoni could even be a decent seam bowling option in English conditions . But with him not in the England series can't see him being picked for CT Yes...it can give us an additional bowler-cover Pant can be easily added to the ODI squad against England even now....winning CT is more important than protocols. Only recently, we saw Rahul added to the test team after pulling him from a Ranji match, mid-game.
maniac Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 I don't want Dhoni to bowl unless he is as good as Malcom Marshall and Mcgrath combined..anything less than that I will depressed and traumatized by the memories of Lords 2011...so please don't even suggest Dhoni bowling
Riju23 Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 This kid really is an exciting talent with the bat - I loved his pull shot vs the English. As far as keeping, is Saha that good? Didn't he drop straightforward chances in this series (I recall a couple off the batting of I think Stokes in the first test). I am not one to push for early inclusion in tests as they are the most challenging format, but there's no reason to wait too long to blood RP maniac 1
King Tendulkar Posted January 12, 2017 Author Posted January 12, 2017 Dhoni a bowling option can i request mods please ban me again maniac 1
maniac Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, express bowling said: Yes...it can give us an additional bowler-cover Pant can be easily added to the ODI squad against England even now....winning CT is more important than protocols. Only recently, we saw Rahul added to the test team after pulling him from a Ranji match, mid-game. Der aaye par durust aaye
express bowling Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: 1. RSA pitches are good for Bhuvi too. I don't think the team management will play Bhuvi unless the conditions favour conventional swing. ( going by what has happened in the recent past in WI and India ) So, basically tests in England, some tests in NZ and occasional tests here and there. Going by what the team management has hinted... bowlers for outside-Asia tests are going to be -- Shami Umesh Ishant / Bhuvi Ashwin Pandya
express bowling Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, maniac said: Der aaye par durust aaye What " der " or " late " ? My opinion always was...... Pant should play 1 full season of Ranji and should not be included in the Indian team before that. As the Ranji season would be over when the LOI series against England starts ( it became clear only after Delhi was eliminated in Ranji ) , he should be tried in LOIs to give him exposure against international pace and enable him to train under Kumble rather than sit at home. If he continues to perform then he can be selected after that. He should be selected for our A team. whenever such a tour is there and play the Irani Cup and Duleep Trophy next season. He should try to play as many Ranji matches as possible next season, to practice his 5-day match keeping. Edited January 12, 2017 by express bowling Mosher 1
express bowling Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said: Dhoni a bowling option For 1 or 2 overs as a part-time bowler in England IF our frontline pacers have a bad day and the conditions favour seam bowling but not spin. Such a scenario can arise in CT England and we do not have any part-time seamer nowadays like we did with Ganguly and even Sachin.
King Tendulkar Posted January 12, 2017 Author Posted January 12, 2017 20 minutes ago, express bowling said: For 1 or 2 overs as a part-time bowler in England IF our frontline pacers have a bad day and the conditions favour seam bowling but not spin. Such a scenario can arise in CT England and we do not have any part-time seamer nowadays like we did with Ganguly and even Sachin. no . Dhoni is not a bowler and not an option .
King Tendulkar Posted January 12, 2017 Author Posted January 12, 2017 One thing I would say as general point . Is that a lot of folks here really underestimate what a specialist role keeper is . And what an important role it is and not anyone can just put gloves on and do a job . it is vital slot and can make a side a decent one in to a good one sandeep and nevada 2
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