Singh bling Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 21 hours ago, The Outsider said: Haha! Those hailing Modi this is but another arsenal to reduce women workforce! In a country like India, which employer will hire a woman if he is getting a slightly inferior guy for the same role and not having to see him on leave for a year in the next 5 years? This is not going to be problem for Fresh graduate women of 20-22 as most of them marry 25 plus and have their first child in late 20s .Women are also very stable and stays in 1 company. The problem women will face who wants to compete with men in high paying jobs which require 4-7 years experiance. Most employers will not give them hefty package only to be found after 5-6 months that they are now on maternity leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelig Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 We're a five member team. Three of them women who were working from other states relocated to Chicago recently to stay with their husbands. They are all pregnant now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 On 3/19/2017 at 7:27 AM, The Outsider said: Haha! Those hailing Modi this is but another arsenal to reduce women workforce! In a country like India, which employer will hire a woman if he is getting a slightly inferior guy for the same role and not having to see him on leave for a year in the next 5 years? ^ issue easily solved by making paternity leave a reality, as it is in many western countries. When men and women can BOTH take paid time off for having a baby, discrimination against woman ends. Sachinism 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Muloghonto said: ^ issue easily solved by making paternity leave a reality, as it is in many western countries. When men and women can BOTH take paid time off for having a baby, discrimination against woman ends. The co I work calls it parental leave and both men and women can avail it. Many MNCs already provide it as per global co policy. Muloghonto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Muloghonto said: ^ issue easily solved by making paternity leave a reality, as it is in many western countries. When men and women can BOTH take paid time off for having a baby, discrimination against woman ends. Of course and Government will give free money to all those companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Singh bling said: Of course and Government will give free money to all those companies. ?? Government doesnt give money to companies for mat + pat leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Muloghonto said: ?? Government doesnt give money to companies for mat + pat leaves. Most MNC companies in INDIA are because of cheap labour cost. Mat Pat leave will make India more costly compared to its competetors.So either they will leave India or will stop further expansion .Even Indian start up private companies face very difficult environment and 60-80% just fail , so how will they give Mat , Pat leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, Singh bling said: Most MNC companies in INDIA are because of cheap labour cost. Mat Pat leave will make India more costly compared to its competetors.So either they will leave India or will stop further expansion .Even Indian start up private companies face very difficult environment and 60-80% just fail , so how will they give Mat , Pat leave? 1. start-ups fail in India due to lack of ease in doing business. Ie, too much beurocratic red-tape means we wait 2-3 extra months to get things done/get permits approved compared to China or other major nations. THAT is why our companies fail. 2. Why do you think companies today are offering 4 day work-weeks, stay at home work options, etc in many western countries ? These are not government enforced, these are offered by the company themselves. Because companies know that when you keep your workers happy, their productivity increases and ultimately, you want more productive workers. Mat/Pat leave of 26 weeks, compared to average employment of 10 years per employee means its 5% of an employee's hours worked are paid for by the company due to leave. That is : a) insignificant to a well run company and b) worth it because it will make your employees better motivated and happier, thus increasing their productivity. beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Muloghonto said: 1. start-ups fail in India due to lack of ease in doing business. Ie, too much beurocratic red-tape means we wait 2-3 extra months to get things done/get permits approved compared to China or other major nations. THAT is why our companies fail. 2. Why do you think companies today are offering 4 day work-weeks, stay at home work options, etc in many western countries ? These are not government enforced, these are offered by the company themselves. Because companies know that when you keep your workers happy, their productivity increases and ultimately, you want more productive workers. Mat/Pat leave of 26 weeks, compared to average employment of 10 years per employee means its 5% of an employee's hours worked are paid for by the company due to leave. That is : a) insignificant to a well run company and b) worth it because it will make your employees better motivated and happier, thus increasing their productivity. Companies can give maternity , paternity leave if they want to increase productivity ,.Govt is not stopping them.Working condition in India is very much different from western nations .Why people want socialist type of welfare laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Muloghonto said: 1. start-ups fail in India due to lack of ease in doing business. Ie, too much beurocratic red-tape means we wait 2-3 extra months to get things done/get permits approved compared to China or other major nations. THAT is why our companies fail. 2. Why do you think companies today are offering 4 day work-weeks, stay at home work options, etc in many western countries ? These are not government enforced, these are offered by the company themselves. Because companies know that when you keep your workers happy, their productivity increases and ultimately, you want more productive workers. Mat/Pat leave of 26 weeks, compared to average employment of 10 years per employee means its 5% of an employee's hours worked are paid for by the company due to leave. That is : a) insignificant to a well run company and b) worth it because it will make your employees better motivated and happier, thus increasing their productivity. Mulo Your information is out-dated re: your first point. Start ups are highly encouraged in India, by the Centre. And by many states too. Infact, India has exempted start ups from taxation for 3 years. The only country to give this kind of a tax break to start ups. Bureaucracy wrt start ups is limited and doesn't take anything close to 2-3 months. More realistic number would be 7-10 working days. Even filing of patents takes a couple of days in cases of a start up operating on a unique concept. The impression that one gets from your India centric posts is that you are stuck in the late 80s, just before liberalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Singh bling said: Companies can give maternity , paternity leave if they want to increase productivity ,.Govt is not stopping them.Working condition in India is very much different from western nations .Why people want socialist type of welfare laws. Because it raises the average quality of life or all. If you didn't have socialist laws, you end up with Nigeria or medeival world- where people with money have everything, make all the laws, hold all the power and people with no money are slaves. South Africa pays mat leave. So does Brazil, Albania, bosnia,etc. The last two countries give an entire year. And they have 3rd world like conditions. And they are all posting high growth rates. So your entire premise of 'granting mat leave makes us non-competitive' is baseless. The more you post on economics, the more you come across as a standard 'pinch every penny, make slaves out of your employee' dime-a-dozen mill-owner from India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mariyam said: Mulo Your information is out-dated re: your first point. Start ups are highly encouraged in India, by the Centre. And by many states too. Infact, India has exempted start ups from taxation for 3 years. The only country to give this kind of a tax break to start ups. Bureaucracy wrt start ups is limited and doesn't take anything close to 2-3 months. More realistic number would be 7-10 working days. Even filing of patents takes a couple of days in cases of a start up operating on a unique concept. The impression that one gets from your India centric posts is that you are stuck in the late 80s, just before liberalization. Mariam, i have personal experience with this. I tried to start up a company in India that would make simple machine tools- like screws, nuts and bolts. At that time, i was easily in position to hook this start-up with a major European-North American manufacturer's supply-chain. This was in the early 2000s- just getting permit for land alone took more than 6 months and i promptly abandoned project, instead pooled money with a Taiwanese buddy, who arranged the exact same thing in China. Notice, we were looking to start a company from scratch. Not co-opt a pre-existing one. It took just under a month to finalize land acquisition permit and all the building permits had already been granted, contingent on the land acquisition. I am bengali, so i used my bengali links to try and acquire business land in West Bengal. But being a bong, i knew this wouldn't go smoothly, so i hedged my bets and tried the same process (without personal contacts) in Andhra Pradesh- Vizag to be exact. Six months later, no dice. Then over the years i heard how much red-tape there is to manufacturing in India. Yes, the process is smooth when you just want to rent office space, register as a company and do something with technology. But not manufacturing- which requires land permit, building permits, etc. before we even get to that stage. And it wasn't too long ago that even TATA ran into the same BS Indian bureaucracy regarding Nandigram and various other projects. Now we have this whole BS Coke-Pepsi water rule in TN. So yea, i can't see much change to the process since the late 80s/early 90s. The only thing that has changed, is foreign companies no longer have to pay a ridiculous 300% foreign business tax or some ridiculous thing as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_doing_business_index As you can see, India ranks 130 out of 190 countries in the 'ease of doing business' ratings. This is the fundamental driver of economic growth and FDI. The only reason India has a decent FDI is because of our humongous population and investors convince themselves that if they go through the painful process of doing business in India- even if it takes 4x as long as other successful nations, atleast we will get a toe-hold in a humongous economy that will make it worth it. And this is also why, most investors look at India as secondary option- they always explore China first, because in China you can get the process going in 3 times the time-frame. The only thing India has over China, at this point, from FDI perspective, is India's economic policies and corporate debt ratings are clear and visible, as opposed to invisible Chinese business practices, where you never quite know if a company is actually posting profit or if CPC is funelling money into this company to keep it alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Because it raises the average quality of life or all. If you didn't have socialist laws, you end up with Nigeria or medeival world- where people with money have everything, make all the laws, hold all the power and people with no money are slaves. South Africa pays mat leave. So does Brazil, Albania, bosnia,etc. The last two countries give an entire year. And they have 3rd world like conditions. And they are all posting high growth rates. So your entire premise of 'granting mat leave makes us non-competitive' is baseless. The more you post on economics, the more you come across as a standard 'pinch every penny, make slaves out of your employee' dime-a-dozen mill-owner from India. Quote http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/22/maternity-leaves-around-the-world_n_1536120.html Just look at the above. USA is still the worst in terms of maternity leave and It is number 1 economy. Japan and Korea are 2 nations not known for friendly maternity policies and they both are very developed . The fact is people all over world love socialist welfare laws , but unless supported by economy they can heavily backfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Singh bling said: Just look at the above. USA is still the worst in terms of maternity leave and It is number 1 economy. Japan and Korea are 2 nations not known for friendly maternity policies and they both are very developed . The fact is people all over world love socialist welfare laws , but unless supported by economy they can heavily backfire US is #1 in overall cumulative economy. Due to them being 1st world and their population. But US ranks below a lot of western nations in quality of life benchmarks because USA is the biggest example of 'palace in midst of slums, people with money have all power, people with no money have nothing' in the entire western world. Japan provides 14 weeks 100% paid mat leave, 1 year unpaid leave. S.Korea provides 3 months 100% paid mat leave. I am still to see any substantiation from you that mat leave hurts the economy, given that there are nations poorer than India giving paid mat leave and still posting great growth numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: US is #1 in overall cumulative economy. Due to them being 1st world and their population. But US ranks below a lot of western nations in quality of life benchmarks because USA is the biggest example of 'palace in midst of slums, people with money have all power, people with no money have nothing' in the entire western world. Japan provides 14 weeks 100% paid mat leave, 1 year unpaid leave. S.Korea provides 3 months 100% paid mat leave. I am still to see any substantiation from you that mat leave hurts the economy, given that there are nations poorer than India giving paid mat leave and still posting great growth numbers. Why Japan and Korea are not providing equal or more maternity leave than India , as they are far much more advanced economies than India. Should provide atleast 9 months of paid leave as maternity leave don't hurt anyone as per your theory. As far hurting economy is concerned it is common sense that employees reaming absent from work will always hurt economy no matter what reason is .Also you were advocating paternity leave which hardly any developing nation provide or encourage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Singh bling said: Why Japan and Korea are not providing equal or more maternity leave than India , as they are far much more advanced economies than India. Should provide atleast 9 months of paid leave as maternity leave don't hurt anyone as per your theory. As far hurting economy is concerned it is common sense that employees reaming absent from work will always hurt economy no matter what reason is .Also you were advocating paternity leave which hardly any developing nation provide or encourage If it were common sense, then companies wouldn't be providing work from home options or 4 day work weeks. It's common sense that companies that do more for its employees see a rise in productivity. You are dodging my question: if mat leave is bad for economy, why are there countries that provide mat leave with a weaker economy than India and still posting great growth rates ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 14 hours ago, Muloghonto said: If it were common sense, then companies wouldn't be providing work from home options or 4 day work weeks. It's common sense that companies that do more for its employees see a rise in productivity. You are dodging my question: if mat leave is bad for economy, why are there countries that provide mat leave with a weaker economy than India and still posting great growth rates ? Work from home is limited to some sectors where you have to work on computer.You cannot ask a supermarket saleswoman to work from home..As far your question of weaker economies than India posting great growth , well each economy has to be study indivisually .If one economy has service sector domination while other has manufactoring sector , then it is foolish to implement laws of one in other.China , USA , Germany , Japan , Korea all big economies of world only provide 12-14 weeks of maternity leave clearly shows that it is something which most companies are not happy to give it in generously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 27 minutes ago, Singh bling said: Work from home is limited to some sectors where you have to work on computer.You cannot ask a supermarket saleswoman to work from home..As far your question of weaker economies than India posting great growth , well each economy has to be study indivisually .If one economy has service sector domination while other has manufactoring sector , then it is foolish to implement laws of one in other.China , USA , Germany , Japan , Korea all big economies of world only provide 12-14 weeks of maternity leave clearly shows that it is something which most companies are not happy to give it in generously Well no ****, sherlock ! Most companies are money-grabbing-penny pinchers who don't pay a dime more than they have to. Point is, it has been shown, that companies who do pay Mat leave/Pat leave, often show greater yield from increased productivity. Work from home is a similar example- companies definitely lose more control and linearity by letting people work from home. But they allow it, because it improves productivity if workers are left to do their own thing. Plus with the cases of other countries providing equal mat leave as India proposing also doing well, it means there is no decisive evidence that companies 'will lose out' by paying mat leave. As the saying goes 'sometimes, you have to spend money to make money'. Plus, most of the countries you named, allow PAID AND UNPAID mat leave for a year or so duration. India can afford to pay mat leave, because India's overall tax contributions are lesser per capita, since India's demographic tree is 'bottom heavy'. which means, our 'humongous overhead from old people' do not exist, which makes it harder to replace incomes in the workplace for countries like Germany, Japan, Korea, USA, etc. So far, all we have from you, is 'waah ! the rich have to give benefits to the workers who make them rich !!!' Sorry, not an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboysfan Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 On 3/11/2017 at 6:48 AM, zen said: Good .... but need to implement 1-child per family policy .... there could be concerns about declining birth rate impacting the ability to support the current generations but Ind already has too many dependents where one or two members work to feed the whole family so Ind has to cut its population down how will you implement that in a democracy? the only option is better education but women are treated as child incubators especially in north india. Muloghonto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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