Unrelenting bowling line-up offers India fresh edge

[surajmal]

ODI team was such a joke barely 10 months ago. I'm enjoying this. This team has all the ingredients to become an ATG side. 

[surajmal]

Shami+BKumar+Bumrah+UYadav (or another pacer who puts his hand up)

+

Pandya

+ 

Jadeja+Chahal+Kuldeep

 

This is a good set of bowlers. Management needs to make sure they are rotated and all get match practice over the next year and a half. In case of injuries, you don't want to get caught unprepared. 

[vayuu1]

Shami+BKumar+Bumrah+UYadav (or another pacer who puts his hand up)
+
Pandya
+ 
Jadeja+Chahal+Kuldeep
 
This is a good set of bowlers. Management needs to make sure they are rotated and all get match practice over the next year and a half. In case of injuries, you don't want to get caught unprepared. 

I think what India is missing is a tall bowler and a left arm pacer, avesh Khan,aniket chaudhary,may be the answer and who knows we can add siraj as well to the list.

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[vayuu1]

ODI team was such a joke barely 10 months ago. I'm enjoying this. This team has all the ingredients to become an ATG side. 

We need few more hitters in middle order I am not sold on jadhav, his fielding is a liability,and a lower order hitter who can pack a punch, I would go with shankar, also rahane as a opener is strict no
Pant should open
I'd have shankar at 6,hardik at 7,krunal at 8 with bhuvi /shami 9, kuldeep 10, bumrah 11

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[Vilander]

1 hour ago, surajmal said:

ODI team was such a joke barely 10 months ago. I'm enjoying this. This team has all the ingredients to become an ATG side. 

I think they will be beaten by the same Aussie side in Aus in ODI in most games. In flat low pitches and batting decks they are still troubled by some of the balls.

[surajmal]

26 minutes ago, vayuu1 said:

We need few more hitters in middle order I am not sold on jadhav, his fielding is a liability,and a lower order hitter who can pack a punch, I would go with shankar, also rahane as a opener is strict no
Pant should open
I'd have shankar at 6,hardik at 7,krunal at 8 with bhuvi /shami 9, kuldeep 10, bumrah 11

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk
 

Thats what I mean. There are capable replacements waiting in the wings. 

[surajmal]

16 minutes ago, Vilander said:

I think they will be beaten by the same Aussie side in Aus in ODI in most games. In flat low pitches and batting decks they are still troubled by some of the balls.

It was their pathetic bowling that screwed them last time in Australia. Battingwise, they were just fine. 

[Rightarmfast]

19 hours ago, the don said:

Most batsmen of the 90s reckon waqar was the quickest at the time . There is documented evidence

Lol he even clocked well over 90 mph in a test match where they had speed guns in 96 when he wasnt even at his peak . There is a video on youtube .

 

 

I already mentioned the fastest he was clocked was at 152.. Anyway, please show me the video from 96 where he is clocking 90mph. I can also show you videos where both Wasim and Waqar are trundling in lower end of 130's and that too in 93-94.

 

As far as ' most batsmen of the 90's '... Can you please name all of those batsmen. And also quote if they made the statement by themselves or were words specifically fed to their mouth? You see, there's a difference. When someone talks about the best batsman of this era, unanimously people speak of Sachin. But when words are fed, answers are diplomatic. eg- How was inzamam as a batsman during your playing years... Now, no international player would go ahead and say' Look, Inzimam was the stupidest batsmen we ever played against. Not only would he run himself out, he would get others run out too!' Instead, the answer would be something like this - He was one of the finest batsman I played against. ( Which is also true ).

 

Also, players are biased, or at times dont calculate too much. if someone were to ask ' who was the best fielder in the 90's?' , players would take JOnty Rhodes's name. They won't consider Azhar. Although Azhar was a pioneer and was the best fielder in any position, unlike Jonty who was a champion only at point. Since nobody talks of Azhar and his prowess, he went unnoticed.

 

Also, I am pretty much sure if someone were to ask who was the fastest bowler of 90's, most batsmen would say Allan Donald and not Waqar Younis. Although Srinath was clocked around 10k's faster when they played together, and almost in all encounters Srinath was faster than Donald.

 

So, what I am trying to say is, you can't always take the words of player as final word, also when you put words in their mouth, they will be forced to say things which they don't mean. While Waqar definitely was a genuine fast bowler, he wasn't all that he is made out to be. You have to think from a neutral perspective if you are really honest to yourself. He was a 145- 148ish bowler, but after a few years, more into the 130's and 140's.

Also, if you try to remove the green glasses, you will also know that your Imran Khan was never a genuine quick bowler. He was a fast medium bowler. More like Agarkar, who was predominantly a 140-143ish bowler and at times could bowl at 145-147. I have video of Greg Chappell saying Imran Khan was fast medium.

[Rightarmfast]

19 hours ago, the don said:

Shami needs to be fit enough and aaron needs to be good enough to get on the park .

Seen enough of shami and yadav and neither of them are faster then their counterparts around the world .

They hardly ever outpace the opposition bowlers in the same game let alone being fast by world standards . 

Its not like the matches are not live.

I think you should be careful of what you say. Because Umesh and Shami are consistently about 7-10k's faster than any of the Pakistani bowlers, atleast in tests. That would make Pakistani bowlers trundlers ( which they are ).

I am compelled to believe matches are not live because you seem to be living in some lala land where you are unable to see the pace of Pakistani trundlers and Indian fast bowlers.

[the don]

49 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I already mentioned the fastest he was clocked was at 152.. Anyway, please show me the video from 96 where he is clocking 90mph. I can also show you videos where both Wasim and Waqar are trundling in lower end of 130's and that too in 93-94.

 

As far as ' most batsmen of the 90's '... Can you please name all of those batsmen. And also quote if they made the statement by themselves or were words specifically fed to their mouth? You see, there's a difference. When someone talks about the best batsman of this era, unanimously people speak of Sachin. But when words are fed, answers are diplomatic. eg- How was inzamam as a batsman during your playing years... Now, no international player would go ahead and say' Look, Inzimam was the stupidest batsmen we ever played against. Not only would he run himself out, he would get others run out too!' Instead, the answer would be something like this - He was one of the finest batsman I played against. ( Which is also true ).

 

Also, players are biased, or at times dont calculate too much. if someone were to ask ' who was the best fielder in the 90's?' , players would take JOnty Rhodes's name. They won't consider Azhar. Although Azhar was a pioneer and was the best fielder in any position, unlike Jonty who was a champion only at point. Since nobody talks of Azhar and his prowess, he went unnoticed.

 

Also, I am pretty much sure if someone were to ask who was the fastest bowler of 90's, most batsmen would say Allan Donald and not Waqar Younis. Although Srinath was clocked around 10k's faster when they played together, and almost in all encounters Srinath was faster than Donald.

 

So, what I am trying to say is, you can't always take the words of player as final word, also when you put words in their mouth, they will be forced to say things which they don't mean. While Waqar definitely was a genuine fast bowler, he wasn't all that he is made out to be. You have to think from a neutral perspective if you are really honest to yourself. He was a 145- 148ish bowler, but after a few years, more into the 130's and 140's.

Also, if you try to remove the green glasses, you will also know that your Imran Khan was never a genuine quick bowler. He was a fast medium bowler. More like Agarkar, who was predominantly a 140-143ish bowler and at times could bowl at 145-147. I have video of Greg Chappell saying Imran Khan was fast medium.

hilarious how clueless you are 

Clocked at 154 kph in 93 and 153 kph in 96 .

Nobody had to tell a batsman how good or quick waqar was . He was breaking toes at the time .

I dont care  what you think about Imran because he was the 3rd fastest bowler in a speed competition behind thmpson and holding , a contest where they didnt deem any Indian bowler worthy of inviting.

Your inferiority complex is apparent because nobody was biased against srinath he just wasnt good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as waqar lol .We have all seen Srinath . He is rated by his peers at least a couple of leagues below waqar i.

Dean jones said waqar was the quickest he had faced just the other day on twitter in addition to almost everyone involved with cricket at the time..

There is a huge list of names from england , newzealand , southafrica , westindies , australia who echoed the sentiment .

Seiously srinath of all people ffs. Haha matlab kuch bhi.

[the don]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

I already mentioned the fastest he was clocked was at 152.. Anyway, please show me the video from 96 where he is clocking 90mph. I can also show you videos where both Wasim and Waqar are trundling in lower end of 130's and that too in 93-94.

 

As far as ' most batsmen of the 90's '... Can you please name all of those batsmen. And also quote if they made the statement by themselves or were words specifically fed to their mouth? You see, there's a difference. When someone talks about the best batsman of this era, unanimously people speak of Sachin. But when words are fed, answers are diplomatic. eg- How was inzamam as a batsman during your playing years... Now, no international player would go ahead and say' Look, Inzimam was the stupidest batsmen we ever played against. Not only would he run himself out, he would get others run out too!' Instead, the answer would be something like this - He was one of the finest batsman I played against. ( Which is also true ).

 

Also, players are biased, or at times dont calculate too much. if someone were to ask ' who was the best fielder in the 90's?' , players would take JOnty Rhodes's name. They won't consider Azhar. Although Azhar was a pioneer and was the best fielder in any position, unlike Jonty who was a champion only at point. Since nobody talks of Azhar and his prowess, he went unnoticed.

 

Also, I am pretty much sure if someone were to ask who was the fastest bowler of 90's, most batsmen would say Allan Donald and not Waqar Younis. Although Srinath was clocked around 10k's faster when they played together, and almost in all encounters Srinath was faster than Donald.

 

So, what I am trying to say is, you can't always take the words of player as final word, also when you put words in their mouth, they will be forced to say things which they don't mean. While Waqar definitely was a genuine fast bowler, he wasn't all that he is made out to be. You have to think from a neutral perspective if you are really honest to yourself. He was a 145- 148ish bowler, but after a few years, more into the 130's and 140's.

Also, if you try to remove the green glasses, you will also know that your Imran Khan was never a genuine quick bowler. He was a fast medium bowler. More like Agarkar, who was predominantly a 140-143ish bowler and at times could bowl at 145-147. I have video of Greg Chappell saying Imran Khan was fast medium.

hilarious how clueless you are 

Clocked at 154 kph in 93 and 153 kph in 96 .

Nobody had to tell a batsman how good or quick waqar was . He was breaking toes at the time .

I dont care  what you think about Imran because he was the 3rd fastest bowler in a speed competition behind thmpson and holding , a contest where they didnt deem any Indian bowler worthy of inviting.

Your inferiority complex is apparent because nobody was biased against srinath he just wasnt good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as waqar lol .We have all seen Srinath . He is rated by his peers at least a couple of leagues below waqar i.

Dean jones said waqar was the quickest he had faced just the other day on twitter in addition to almost everyone involved with cricket at the time..

There is a huge list of names from england , newzealand , southafrica , westindies , australia who echoed the sentiment .

Seiously srinath of all people ffs. Haha matlab kuch bhi.

[the don]

When alec stewart speaks you listen THE QUICKEST BOWLER HE KEPT TO .

 

 

Watch what neutrals like nasser hussain , mike atherton , ian bishop , allan donald , martin crowe have to say about his speed through the air and learn .

Edited September 25, 2017 by the don

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, the don said:

When alec stewart speaks you listen THE QUICKEST BOWLER HE KEPT TO .

 

 

Watch what neutrals like nasser hussain , mike atherton , ian bishop , allan donald , martin crowe have to say about his speed through the air and learn .

Since you mentioned Alec Stewart, let's see who he says was the quickest -

 

 

Let me know which name you come up with next, so I debunk it

Cheers!

[the don]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Since you mentioned Alec Stewart, let's see who he says was the quickest -

 

 

Let me know which name you come up with next, so I debunk it

Cheers!

Watch the video . Infact watch what allan donald himself had to say about Waqar . Waqar and Donald were the Lee and Akhtar of the time albeit not as quick . Read the names . Research .one thing will be in common . Nobody wil mention srinath in the same breath neither should you. 

Cheers.

Edited September 25, 2017 by the don

[Rightarmfast]

19 minutes ago, the don said:

Watch the video . Infact watch what allan donald himself had to say about Waqar . Waqar and Donald were the Lee and Akhtar of the time albeit not as quick . Read the names . Research .one thing will be in common . Nobody wil mention srinath in the same breath neither should you. 

Cheers.

Don't run away buddy. Srinath was never in the conversation, and I didn't even make any claims. Your claim was Alec calling Waqar the world's fastest, and I already gave my reasons earlier. And this video proves it. I just debunked your theory that waqar was fastest, so dont run away. Please come up with a better logic and argument.

[putrevus]

Waqar was definitely more than express and Akram could bowl as fast as anybody . I would take both of them over Akthar who might have more speed but he was all over the place.This is something Imran has to get credit.He started as medium pacer but developed into genuine fast bowler.Imran emphasised speed has no substitute.

 

No Indian fast bowler has been in their  class.Srinath never had self belief to be the best even though he had pace that is why he rarely get mentioned in same breath as other great fast bowlers.Thompson does not have great stats but anyone who played with or against him will tell him he really had that pace which put fear of god into batsmen.

 

No one tells that about Srinath because he was not feared by batsmen like they feared his peers Waqar, Donald or Akram because it is not just speed you need hostility from fast bowler which you never got from Srinath.

 

 

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, the don said:

 . Nobody wil mention srinath in the same breath

 

 

 

As far as pace is concerned, Srinath did not get his due as he was Indian ... and we were not known to produce fast bowlers in the '90s.  That is how perception worked in the absence of regular speed-gun usage.

 

This is what your Imran Khan had to say about Srinath's speed

 

" Once in an interview, 1992 World cup winning Pakistan captain Imran Khan said that after watching him bowl 150 km/h speed on Indian pitches, he considered Srinath to be the most grossly underrated bowler in the world. "

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javagal_Srinath

 

 

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

As far as pace is concerned, Srinath did not get his due as he was Indian ... and we were not known to produce fast bowlers in the '90s.  That is how perception worked in the absence of regular speed-gun usage.

 

This is what your Imran Khan had to say about Srinath's speed

 

" Once in an interview, 1992 World cup winning Pakistan captain Imran Khan said that after watching him bowl 150 km/h speed on Indian pitches, he considered Srinath to be the most grossly underrated bowler in the world. "

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javagal_Srinath

 

 

That is just nonsense speed guns has got nothing to do with people not giving Srinath his due he was just not as good as others.Warne was revered more than Kumble even though Kumble comes from a country which is known for spin bowling. The reason being Warne was far better leg spinner than Kumble.

 

Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace.

[express bowling]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

That is just nonsense speed guns has got nothing to do with people not giving Srinath his due he was just not as good as others.

 

Read properly before starting to jump.   I said   " As far as pace is concerned, Srinath did not get his due ".  His quality as a bowler has no relevance to what I said.

 

 

Quote

Warne was revered more than Kumble even though Kumble comes from a country which is known for spin bowling. The reason being Warne was far better leg spinner than Kumble.

Again, this point is not relevant as I was discussing pace.... and not the quality of bowling.

 

Moreover, if a bowler is really good and has a low average, he will be recognized in terms of quality irrespective of his country.... like we are seeing with Bumrah's LOI bowling.

 

Quote

 

Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace.

 

Wasim and Waqar were more skilled than Srinath ..... that is very true.

 

Srinath being no-where near the pace of Wasim and Waqar .... this statement has no basis and any actual data regarding speeds prove otherwise.

 

 

1 )  Srinath touched 156 k in 1996 in SA.  He was quicker than Donald in 1996. Reference below ....

 

 " Between December '96 and February '97 Srinath's speeds were timed in excess of 150kph and were comparable to those of both Allan Donald and South Africa's 'new' pace sensation Lance Klusener. Whilst Klusener's fastest ball came in at 154kph and he proved at the time to be faster than Donald, it has been brought to my attention on numerous occasions that Srinath pipped them both with one particular delivery measured at 156kph. "

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/111878.html

 

 

2 )  Srinath touched 157 k in 1997, in Zimbabwe. Reference below.

 

The Zimbabwe captain Alistair Campbell revealed that Srinath was recorded at 157 km/hr on 27 January 1997 in the game at Paarl between India and Zimbabwe. He said about this game: "We then moved on to our second game against India, at Boland Bank Park. In all 236 was quite a decent score, as it wasn't the easiest of pitches to bat on, and Srinath I think bowled the quickest that any of our guys had ever seen. He bowled a really quick spell early on, even quicker than Allan Donald; he was timed at 157 km/h, a good 10 km/h faster than Donald was bowling throughout the tournament. Grant Flower was hit on the thigh pad, and when he came off he said he thought he had broken his leg"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javagal_Srinath

 

 

3 )   " Old " Srinath, after his shoulder operation, was the 2nd fastest bowler in WC 1999 .... Old Srinath was quicker than old Wasim  and old Donald.. Reference below.....

 

" At the tournament's first match Srinath and McGrath went head to head once more. This time it was evident for all the world to see that Javagal Srinath was no medium pacer, but was a genuine speedster clocking up 149.6kph.  Srinath proved to be the second fastest bowler of the tournament next to Shoaib (154.5kph) "

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/111878.html

 

 

4)  Any reference of Wasim reaching these kind of speeds  ?   I could not find any .

 

 

5)  Waqar was quick in 1989-92 range .... but no reference of him going way over 157 k. No reference of old Waqar touching 150 k either like old Srinath did.

 

So, it is strongly incorrect to say " Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace "  like you did.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by express bowling

[putrevus]

^^ Why are we Indians obsessed with speed gun readings, it does not matter if srinath was clocked @ 165k . Srinath was not as good as either Waqar or Akram .

It took long time for Srinath to find his length.He would have been deadly if he had mastered reverse swing with his inswing action.

Speed matters but without any skill or movement  that speed is useless. Both Yadav and Aaron have speed  other than few matches here and there from Yadav both have done nothing major.Aaron has been total bust if he was any good he would be taking bucket loads of wickets in domestic cricket.Yadav I have hope let us wait and see how he pans out in next couple of years. Both of them made debut  in 2011 which is long time ago.

 If you are averaging over 138 -140 k with ability to bump up your speed when needed you would be just fine if you have other skills which are more important than speed.

The difference between Pakistani fast bowlers and Indian fast bowlers IMHO is they don't give up as easily as Indian fast bowlers when things are not going well.

Edited September 25, 2017 by putrevus