Gun market in Wazaristan !!!

[Stradlater]

6 minutes ago, panther said:

Because God willed it so.

 

16 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Then How come they so easily converted to islam??

Pashtuns were divided into various tribes and in those days if a tribal chief converted so did the rest considering the homogeneous nature of the society.

Same for central asian Turks. They all converted en masse once their chiefs accepted Islam because of the political reasons.

Nobody saw the light of Islam. Maybe some converted by the Sufis did but that's about all. It's a political religion.

[panther]

8 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

 

Pashtuns were divided into various tribes and in those days if a tribal chief converted so did the rest considering the homogeneous nature of the society.

Same for central asian Turks. They all converted en masse once their chiefs accepted Islam because of the political reasons.

Nobody saw the light of Islam. Maybe some converted by the Sufis did but that's about all. It's a political religion.

The main Sufi school in India and Islamic jusrisprudance in India/pak both come from Afghanistan although both these men were Tajiks.

[Mariyam]

@panther

 

What are your views on the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement? Is it really a mass movement? Are their grievances wrt extra-judicial killings/kidnappings/illegal jail terms exaggerated or legitimate?

 

Among the elders of the Pashtun communities of Mumbai, the general consensus after reading about the movement is that their ancestors chose the right nation to settle in. No such targeted killings here. 

[Singh bling]

8 hours ago, Stradlater said:

 

Pashtuns were divided into various tribes and in those days if a tribal chief converted so did the rest considering the homogeneous nature of the society.

Same for central asian Turks. They all converted en masse once their chiefs accepted Islam because of the political reasons.

Nobody saw the light of Islam. Maybe some converted by the Sufis did but that's about all. It's a political religion.

Its not that easy.Even Tribe Leaders are tied with tribes tradition and religion.If something is not acceptable to Common people then they can even throw tribe chief out.

 

BTW if these days any tribe leader can convert to Christianity???

[panther]

3 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@panther

 

What are your views on the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement? Is it really a mass movement? Are their grievances wrt extra-judicial killings/kidnappings/illegal jail terms exaggerated or legitimate?

 

Among the elders of the Pashtun communities of Mumbai, the general consensus after reading about the movement is that their ancestors chose the right nation to settle in. No such targeted killings here. 

There is genuine grievances, especially for the people of Fata, but on the whole the movement is not that big especially in KPK.

 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Afridis are historically a popular tribe having risen up in rebellion multiple times against Mughals and English. Yes Durranis are from Afghanistan. Salim Durrani who played for India was born in Afghan land if I'm not wrong.

 

Very hard and Sturdy people Pashtuns are. Quite resilient and proud of themselves. What are your views on their origins? It would be nice if you don't troll for a change and not label them as some lost Judean tribe.

IMO they were Buddhists/Hindus and descendents of original Aryans who came from Central Asia. Rigveda was written in the region around KPK and thus it's possible that many got permanently settled around that area.

Also the kingdom of Gandhara(Modern day Afghanistan) has a good part to play in the Mahabharata as well .

you still believe in Aryan hoax?

[velu]

6 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Among the elders of the Pashtun communities of Mumbai, the general consensus after reading about the movement is that their ancestors chose the right nation to settle in. No such targeted killings here. 

 

how do you know that.. are you pathan ?  

 

[panther]

14 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Afghans had always been Indic. They were part of Vedic civilization and centre of Buddhism later on under the Kushanas and Sakas. It's only after islamization and coming of Turks that the gulf between the societies widened though not much.

 

Brave people though. Gotta respect that even though the IQ levels might not Cross two digits.

We don't see our self as Indic just because some of us used to follow an indic religion before does not make us indic.

 

 

[Stradlater]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

you still believe in Aryan hoax?

Aryans did arrive and settle in India. It's a proven act. What has been disapproved is the Aryan invasion of Indian Subcontinent since there was no such thing.

Aryan immigration occured in small groups for over centuries and the fighting which occured were between the two groups of Aryans the one who arrived earlier and the newer ones.

Aryan Dravidian thing is hoax. 

[Stradlater]

5 hours ago, Singh bling said:

Its not that easy.Even Tribe Leaders are tied with tribes tradition and religion.If something is not acceptable to Common people then they can even throw tribe chief out.

 

BTW if these days any tribe leader can convert to Christianity???

You have to consider the political situation prevailing in those times. Islam was new cool and it's influence was spreading like wildfire. It was lot more profitable both in terms of money and social prestige to become Muslim which is why a lot many tribal leaders converted.

 

And why would anyone wanna convert to Christianity? It's a dying religion and it's days are long gone. Christianity never had such a big influence in India as had Islam.

[Stradlater]

1 hour ago, panther said:

We don't see our self as Indic just because some of us used to follow an indic religion before does not make us indic.

 

 

Doesn't matter what you consider or what not. Facts don't change to the whims and fancies of people else 99 percent Muslims in the Subcontinent would have been of Arab heritage.

 

[panther]

47 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Doesn't matter what you consider or what not. Facts don't change to the whims and fancies of people else 99 percent Muslims in the Subcontinent would have been of Arab heritage.

 

Uh it's pretty much proven that ancestors of pashtuns ( hepthalites) were from central Asia not India.

[Ellipsism]

I’m pretty sure Pathans have nearly as much Dravidian DNA as Punjabis (On average about 4-5% less). In fact Pathans are the most Indic of all ethnic groups west of the Indus (Pakistan and Afghanistan), barring Hindkowans and maybe ethnic Baloch people. 

[Garuda]

33 minutes ago, Ellipsism said:

I’m pretty sure Pathans have nearly as much Dravidian DNA as Punjabis (On average about 4-5% less). In fact Pathans are the most Indic of all ethnic groups west of the Indus (Pakistan and Afghanistan), barring Hindkowans and maybe ethnic Baloch people. 

There's no such thing as an Aryan or Dravidian DNA. Pretty much everyone from South India to Europe has R1a DNA derivatives. Pashtuns are more of an Iranic people than Indic. Im talking about real pathans not fake ones.

[Ellipsism]

19 hours ago, Garuda said:

There's no such thing as an Aryan or Dravidian DNA. Pretty much everyone from South India to Europe has R1a DNA derivatives. Pashtuns are more of an Iranic people than Indic. Im talking about real pathans not fake ones.

I don’t remember the exact haplogroup but it was one typically found among South Indians, in which Punjabis and Pashtuns had nearly the same amount present in their DNA. I’m pretty sure R1a1 is more commonly found in Punjabis and not prevalent among the other ethnic groups of South Asia. I’ll look into it. 

 

In comparison to Tajiks, Uzbeks and Turkic people (The other ethnic groups of Afghanistan) we are more Indic.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Ellipsism

[Garuda]

53 minutes ago, Ellipsism said:

I don’t remember the exact haplogroup but it was one typically found among South Indians, in which Punjabis and Pashtuns had nearly the same amount present in their DNA. I’m pretty sure R1a1 is more commonly found in Punjabis and prevalent among the other ethnic groups of South Asia. I’ll look into it. 

 

In comparison to Tajiks, Uzbeks and Turkic people (The other ethnic groups of Afghanistan) we are more Indic.

Are you Pashtun? If so which country do you reside in Afg, Pak, Ind. Pashto and Dari are Iranic languages.

[Ellipsism]

1 hour ago, Garuda said:

Are you Pashtun? If so which country do you reside in Afg, Pak, Ind. Pashto and Dari are Iranic languages.

Roughly guessing I’m probably 60-70% Pashtun and 30-40% Punjabi. My father is a Niazi who’s family immigrated from Mianwali to Gujranwala and my mother is an ethnic Pashtun from Peshawar (Shinwari if we argue going into specifics)— I believe he family is originally from South Waziristan

 

Pashtun from my understanding is an Indo-Iranian language whilst Dari is just a dialect of Farsi.

 

I was born in NZ and live in Aus now.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Ellipsism

[panther]

1 hour ago, Ellipsism said:

Roughly guessing I’m probably 60-70% Pashtun and 30-40% Punjabi. My father is a Niazi who’s family immigrated from Mianwali to Gujranwala and my mother is an ethnic Pashtun from Peshawar (Shinwari if we argue going into specifics)— I believe he family is originally from South Waziristan

 

Pashtun from my understanding is an Indo-Iranian language whilst Dari is just a dialect of Farsi.

 

I was born in NZ and live in Aus now.

how can you be 2 ethnicities when both your parents are the same ethnicity?

[Ellipsism]

10 hours ago, panther said:

how can you be 2 ethnicities when both your parents are the same ethnicity?

My dads family sides of the family mixed with Punjabis. 

[Stradlater]

13 minutes ago, Ellipsism said:

My dads family sides of the family mixed with Punjabis. 

Are Niazis considered as pure Pashtuns? I mean since they have been living in Punjab for quite some time now, don't the other pathans from KPK and FATA look down upon them as is norm in subcontinent with regards to any ethnicity when they move out of their original place?