zen Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Bradman (though played for a strong side, which is among the ATG sides) Records type batting analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Match result won match Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menu Cleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 unfiltered 1928-1948 52 80 10 6996 334 99.94 29 13 7 Profile filtered 1929-1948 30 43 6 4813 299* 130.08 23 4 3 Avg of 130 23 100s in just 43 innings Sobers (played for a relatively weak team. Eventually making it strong) Records type all-round analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Match result won match Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menu Cleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff unfiltered 1954-1974 93 8032 365* 57.78 26 235 6/73 34.03 6 109 0 23.74 Profile filtered 1956-1974 31 3097 365* 77.42 12 104 6/73 24.04 3 58 0 53.37 Batting avg of 77, bowling avg of 24 Hadlee (played for NZ, which won mainly because of Hadlee) Records type bowling analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Match result won match Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menu Cleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 unfiltered 1973-1990 86 150 21918 9611 431 9/52 15/123 22.29 2.63 50.8 36 9 Profile filtered 1974-1990 22 44 5808 2261 173 9/52 15/123 13.06 2.33 33.5 17 8 Bowling avg of 13, SR of 33 In 17 matches NZ played w/o Hadlee in the period, it lost 9 and drew 8 Vote and Discuss. Poll closes on Apr 1st Link to comment
Nikola Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Bradman and it's not even close. Played with avg side but still won them matches single handedly. Link to comment
zen Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Nikola said: Bradman and it's not even close. Played with avg side but still won them matches single handedly. Isn't Brandman's team among the top 3 or so ATG sides? Link to comment
Nikola Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, zen said: Isn't Brandman's team among the top 3 or so ATG sides? which side? pre or post worldwar. Link to comment
zen Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, Nikola said: which side? pre or post worldwar. I only recall that one of the Bradman's side was ATG side before WI came up with that amazing team Link to comment
Nikola Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, zen said: I only recall that one of the Bradman's side was ATG side before WI came up with that amazing team i read it somewhere along with stats that he played with avg side. I am not sure which side it was like early 30s or 47-48 side. Link to comment
Nikola Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 But just 3 players? What about players like murali or ashwin who are great in home conditions and genuine match winners? http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;result=1;template=results;type=bowling I am surprised by kumble's stats in won matches. Kallis averages 62 with bat & 24 with ball in wins. Ricky Ponting has just 4 centuries in loss out of 41 in test matches. 37 Came in Draw & Win. Kallis has just 3 centuries in loss out of 45! Personally i think you can't pick out any one player from different era. For each era you can pick the biggest match winner but that too depends like if you have team like murali had then you will get most wickets as spinner or ashwin being biggest match winner in asian conditions. Link to comment
zen Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Nikola said: But just 3 players? What about players like murali or ashwin who are great in home conditions and genuine match winners? http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;result=1;template=results;type=bowling I am surprised by kumble's stats in won matches. Kallis averages 62 with bat & 24 with ball in wins. Ricky Ponting has just 4 centuries in loss out of 41 in test matches. 37 Came in Draw & Win. Kallis has just 3 centuries in loss out of 45! Personally i think you can't pick out any one player from different era. For each era you can pick the biggest match winner but that too depends like if you have team like murali had then you will get most wickets as spinner or ashwin being biggest match winner in asian conditions. In terms of avgs (batsmen and bowlers), these 3 are the best since 1900 in their respective categories PS Link Edited February 12, 2019 by zen Link to comment
zen Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) Vs peers Bradman View overall figures [change view] Primary team Australia Start of match date between 1 Jan 1928 and 1 Jan 1950 Match result won match Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10 and runs scored greater than or equal to 500 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 12 of 12 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 DG Bradman 1929-1948 30 43 6 4813 299* 130.08 23 4 3 SG Barnes 1946-1948 10 14 1 920 234 70.76 3 5 1 WH Ponsford 1930-1934 12 18 2 1080 266 67.50 4 3 0 Bradman is 1.83x away from #2 Sobers View overall figures [change view] Primary team West Indies Start of match date between 1 Jan 1956 and 1 Jan 1975 Match result won match Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 10 of 10 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff GS Sobers 1956-1974 31 3097 365* 77.42 12 104 6/73 24.04 3 58 0 53.37 RB Kanhai 1958-1974 27 2404 256 58.63 5 0 - - 0 17 0 - SM Nurse 1961-1969 10 873 168 54.56 2 0 - - 0 12 0 - CC Hunte 1958-1967 22 1744 260 51.29 6 0 - - 0 9 0 - BF Butcher 1958-1969 16 1174 209* 51.04 3 - - - - 8 0 - JS Solomon 1958-1965 14 692 96 36.42 0 2 1/23 49.00 0 7 0 -12.57 OG Smith 1956-1959 10 292 64 24.33 0 23 4/71 23.95 0 4 0 0.37 WW Hall 1958-1969 21 306 50* 15.30 0 90 6/49 20.47 6 6 0 -5.17 CC Griffith 1963-1968 11 139 30 13.90 0 39 6/36 21.79 2 7 0 -7.89 LR Gibbs 1958-1974 28 177 22 6.80 0 144 8/38 19.14 13 28 0 -12.33 Only good AR in the team Batting avg is 1.31x away from #2 Hadlee View overall figures [change view] Primary team New Zealand Start of match date between 1 Jan 1973 and 1 Jan 1991 Match result won match Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 5 of 5 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 Sir RJ Hadlee 1974-1990 22 44 5808 2261 173 9/52 15/123 13.06 2.33 33.5 17 8 EJ Chatfield 1983-1988 12 24 2760 988 52 5/63 7/81 19.00 2.14 53.0 2 0 JG Bracewell 1983-1990 10 18 1580 675 35 6/32 10/106 19.28 2.56 45.1 3 1 BL Cairns 1976-1985 12 24 2878 1130 48 7/74 10/144 23.54 2.35 59.9 2 1 MC Snedden 1981-1990 8 16 1580 649 24 5/68 5/77 27.04 2.46 65.8 1 0 In terms of bowling avg, #2 is 1.46x away from Hadlee Hadlee's SR is 33.5 Will vote for Bradman Edited February 12, 2019 by zen Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) Bowlers win matches generally unless the pitch is overly favoring bowlers like the WI pitch where Dravid scored twin fifties Edited February 12, 2019 by vvvslaxman Link to comment
zen Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said: Bowlers win matches generally unless the pitch is overly favoring bowlers like the WI pitch where Dravid scored twin fifties That is a separate discussion. The thread is about picking one of the 3 whose records in wins are listed Link to comment
maniac Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) We usually overlook match winners from average to middle level teams especially when it is winning at home for example India in the 90s India used to white wash most teams at home for fun thanks to Kumble. From memory I can remember white wash of England,Australia,Zimbabwe,Srilanka etc etc that’s probably 10 tests right there. Edited February 13, 2019 by maniac Link to comment
zen Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, maniac said: We usually overlook match winners from average to middle level teams especially when it is winning at home for example India in the 90s India used to white wash most teams at home for fun thanks to Kumble. From memory I can remember white wash of England,Australia,Zimbabwe,Srilanka etc etc that’s probably 10 tests right there. Kumble was good but not even in top 30 -> Link Link to comment
SK_IH Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Sorry but as per the green estimates , wasn't the answer to this riddle the great Ul- Haq from Multan Link to comment
maniac Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, zen said: Kumble was good but not even in top 30 -> Link Criteria is subjective. Let us take Australia for example. Everyone says Hayden,Ponting, Warne,McGrath but for me the difference maker was Gilchrist. He would take middling scores like 130/5 to 300+ in no time or 300/5 would be 500 in no time and the bowlers would wrap up the opposition. Every test that Sl won during their non minnow phase from 1996-2012 was due to Murali and every test then since Herath but the Victory quantity might not be as much as Bradman because he had to play against only 2-3 teams. In mid 90s no test playing was an outright minnow including Zimbabwe when even they had 2-3 match winners. South Africa who missed 3 decades where a top tier team.Toughest era for me. So you can’t pick black and white stats to call some one the greatest match winner. Edited February 13, 2019 by maniac Link to comment
maniac Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 @zen based on your criteria where would Ashwin or Jadeja stand the way we have been destroying teams at home? and no way Ashwin or Jadeja should be in the discussion of GOAT match winners Link to comment
zen Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, maniac said: Criteria is subjective. Let us take Australia for example. Everyone says Hayden,Ponting, Warne,McGrath but for me the difference maker was Gilchrist. He would take middling scores like 130/5 to 300+ in no time or 300/5 would be 500 in no time and the bowlers would wrap up the opposition. Every test that Sl won during their non minnow phase from 1996-2012 was due to Murali and every test then since Herath but the Victory quantity might not be as much as Bradman because he had to play against only 2-3 teams. In mid 90s no test playing was an outright minnow including Zimbabwe when even they had 2-3 match winners. South Africa who missed 3 decades where a top tier team.Toughest era for me. So you can’t pick black and white stats to call some one the greatest match winner. The difference should show in stats too otherwise the player is just among many other contributors .... there are so many good players but the 3 here (even though you may not support them or want to squeeze in some Ind player) are at the top (does not imply other players are not good) Edited February 13, 2019 by zen Link to comment
SRT100 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Shane Warne. Close thread. Link to comment
Clarke Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 % of runs scored or % of wickets taken in the game would be a more objective decision maker in deciding a match winner. Link to comment
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