VIDEO - Kapil Dev scoring 50 of 30 in 1985 WCC

[sscomp32]

Sony Six are showing 1985 World Championship. Watched this yesterday so thought of posting this here. Great hitting without much slogging . These kinds of scores are considered aggressive even today and this was 1985.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A5gza2lX5cW4_pDdpHfXvCW9p86df0Rh/view

[zen]

Very good batsman when in full flow. Too bad that we do not have the 175* footage 

 

On the other hand, inconsistent too - for e.g. did not score an ODI 50 in the last 6 years of his career. Iirc, his last ODI 50 was in 1988! 

[rtmohanlal]

12 hours ago, Cricspin said:

Not sure how seriously he was taking his batting stats. Wonder what could be if he was hell bent on staying put and increasing his average.

 

His strike rate was well ahead of his time both in Test and ODI.

the fact is that Kapil's batting stats in itself is highly impressive  of a bowling all rounder. This, especially when we think of the fact that  he could score

5248 runs(61.45% as that of Viv)  @31.05 avg:( 61.82% as that of Viv)  at a str: of 81-82.5( in my analysis it surely is  in 82-82.5 range) . Even Viv had only 70.19 where as all other  great batsmen of that era had only 35-45 range str: . 

[Gollum]

17 hours ago, zen said:

Very good batsman when in full flow. Too bad that we do not have the 175* footage 

 

On the other hand, inconsistent too - for e.g. did not score an ODI 50 in the last 6 years of his career. Iirc, his last ODI 50 was in 1988! 

Pity he didn't retire at the correct time, 92 WC should have been his swansong. 

[zen]

Just now, Gollum said:

Pity he didn't retire at the correct time, 92 WC should have been his swansong. 

In ODIs, even 87 looking at his last 6-7 years with the bat .... as a bowler, he was probably good to go till 92

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
unfiltered	1978-1994	225	198	39	3783	175*	23.79	3979	95.07	1	14	13	Profile
filtered	1988-1994	110	94	18	1412	52	18.57	1715	82.33	0	1	4

 

 

 

[zen]

Difference b/w a Viv Richards and a Kapil/Afridi = batting average 

 

 

[rtmohanlal]

10 hours ago, zen said:

In ODIs, even 87 looking at his last 6-7 years with the bat .... as a bowler, he was probably good to go till 92

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
unfiltered	1978-1994	225	198	39	3783	175*	23.79	3979	95.07	1	14	13	Profile
filtered	1988-1994	110	94	18	1412	52	18.57	1715	82.33	0	1	4

 

 

 

Kapil's ODI  performance was very good till 15 Mar 1992   ,By this time he had played  172 inns  and averaged 25.44  with a  str: of  97.42

Even after first 151 inns he averaged 25.87 @ 99.9. From that perspective  his  performance only dipped  by a little , It is in the last 26 inns(last 2 years of his career)  he was far from his very best which  dropped his avg: to 23.79.

[zen]

15 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Kapil's ODI  performance was very good till 15 Mar 1992   ,By this time he had played  172 inns  and averaged 25.44  with a  str: of  97.42

Even after first 151 inns he averaged 25.87 @ 99.9. From that perspective  his  performance only dipped  by a little , It is in the last 26 inns(last 2 years of his career)  he was far from his very best which  dropped his avg: to 23.79.

What you are posting his career stats till that point. What is being discussed is beyond such basics:

 

till 1987: batting avg 29

1988-1992: batting avg 20 (dip of 9, or almost 1/3rd)

 

Also in the 1988-1994 period, he only has a 50+ score, again a big dip for someone who had 14 50+ scores till 1987. 

 

[rtmohanlal]

even Sachin's batting average fell from 57 to 53.78 in a matter of  just 2 years( last 23 tests) despite him  being a batsman   only . That being the case

a seam  bowling all rounder like Kapil's average dropping   by such margin should only be taken in that context. That being said , I feel Kapil should have

retired from ODI's after that 1992 world cup( that  25.44 avg: milestone) .

[zen]

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

even Sachin's batting average fell from 57 to 53.78 in a matter of  just 2 years( last 23 tests) despite him  being a batsman   only . That being the case

a seam  bowling all rounder like Kapil's average dropping   by such margin should only be taken in that context. That being said , I feel Kapil should have

retired from ODI's after that 1992 world cup( that  25.44 avg: milestone) .

There is no relevance to what Sachin did in test in his last two years (and as if it is condoned) and what Kapil did in his last 6-7 years in ODIs.  In ODIs, Kapil's last major series with the bat was 87-88 one vs. WI. For reference, from 1988, Imran averaged 38, Hadlee 37, Botham 26, and Kapil 19. 

[nevada]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:10 PM, sscomp32 said:

Sony Six are showing 1985 World Championship. Watched this yesterday so thought of posting this here. Great hitting without much slogging . These kinds of scores are considered aggressive even today and this was 1985.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A5gza2lX5cW4_pDdpHfXvCW9p86df0Rh/view

Thanks for posting! Enjoyed watching Kapil's batting. This is great hitting, and moreover in a chase in a semifinal with his team falling behind in asking rate. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by nevada

[sscomp32]

Whole tournament can be seen here: https://www.sonyliv.com/listing/blue_revolution

Edited May 16, 2020 by sscomp32

[rtmohanlal]

10 hours ago, zen said:

There is no relevance to what Sachin did in test in his last two years (and as if it is condoned) and what Kapil did in his last 6-7 years in ODIs.  In ODIs, Kapil's last major series with the bat was 87-88 one vs. WI. For reference, from 1988, Imran averaged 38, Hadlee 37, Botham 26, and Kapil 19. 

agreed that Kapil's stats were bad in the period you said but the more important thing is  w.r.t what conclusion to derive.

As I indicated I does not  read  too much  into Kapil's stats in his last 2 years because it was  a slump just as  that  of Sachin in his last 2 years in tests.

Till that  period Kapil's stats  were as follows.

 

from  start to 25 March 92 - 172inns  35NO 3486runs 25.44avg: 97.42str:   //period before slump started

first 151 inns data -               151inns  29NO 3157runs 25.87       99.90str:  //same no: of inns: as that of Imran

from 21dec1980 to 15dec91- 151inns 31NO 3186runs 26.55       98.76str:  //peak 151 inns data

 

I consider the above set of datas as superior to even that of Imran's entire career stats. Naturally , for some reason or the other, if Imran was superior to Kapil from 1988 onwards, Kapil was even more  superior to Imran in the period till 1988 Jan 1st.

Based on these stats Kapil was  the better ODI batsman to Imran, let alone the other 2.  Again   let us agree to disagree w.r.t the final conclusion of mine and the reasons for it  

 

 

[zen]

7 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

agreed that Kapil's stats were bad in the period you said but the more important thing is  w.r.t what conclusion to derive.

As I indicated I does not  read  too much  into Kapil's stats in his last 2 years because it was  a slump just as  that  of Sachin in his last 2 years in tests.

Till that  period Kapil's stats  were as follows.

 

from  start to 25 March 92 - 172inns  35NO 3486runs 25.44avg: 97.42str:   //period before slump started

first 151 inns data -               151inns  29NO 3157runs 25.87       99.90str:  //same no: of inns: as that of Imran

from 21dec1980 to 15dec91- 151inns 31NO 3186runs 26.55       98.76str:  //peak 151 inns data

 

I consider the above set of datas as superior to even that of Imran's entire career stats. Naturally , for some reason or the other, if Imran was superior to Kapil from 1988 onwards, Kapil was even more  superior to Imran in the period till 1988 Jan 1st.

Based on these stats Kapil was  the better ODI batsman to Imran, let alone the other 2.  Again   let us agree to disagree w.r.t the final conclusion of mine and the reasons for it  

Those batting stats are more Afridi type of numbers:

 

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
overall	1996-2015	398	369	27	8064	124	23.57	6892	117.00	6	39	30	730	351

 

• Afridi averaged around 24, hit 45 50+ scores, and had a SR of 117 when many went in the range of 70-90
• Afridi was inconsistent but also played good knocks. Was instrumental in Pak winning the T20 WC  in 2009 if we talk about LOIs in general 

 

As for the comparison with other ARs from 70s-80s, the importance of being better in x or y aspect depends, in the end, on the type of AR that you would chose per the team's requirements. Talking about batting averages, Imran for e.g. has a career average of 33, which is similar to many of India's specialist batsmen in that period. He also had an excellent Nehru Cup (a tournament similar to 1985 World Championship in Australia) including the final. Therefore, "better" can depend upon the criteria for ODI team selection (and likewise Kapil has a case too).  Also one has to remember that ODI cricket took off in terms of more matches being played post 1983 WC when guys like Hadlee and Imran (6-7 years older than Kapil) were into their 30s (and we know how Kapil's stats are when in his 30s post 1988).

 

Rather than try to draw the conclusion on who is better in ODIs (depends on team selection criteria),  I am more focused on looking at various aspects of Kapil's career. The positives were 83 and 85 tournaments, while the negatives were 87 WC SF after which Kapil was removed from captaincy esp. for playing the bad stroke (could have closed the game for Ind), batting failure in 1989 Nehru Cup, and the casual batting in 92 WC (India could not leverage on his vast experience as much as it would have liked to close games and crashed out in the first round. For e.g. lost chasing to Eng and Aus by narrow margins - the two wins could have given India 9 points). In terms of contributions in other aspects, despite being a former captain and a senior player, Kapil was not known to mentor new players iirc. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by zen

[Soorma_Bhopali]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:10 PM, sscomp32 said:

Sony Six are showing 1985 World Championship. Watched this yesterday so thought of posting this here. Great hitting without much slogging . These kinds of scores are considered aggressive even today and this was 1985.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A5gza2lX5cW4_pDdpHfXvCW9p86df0Rh/view

Kapil's career strike rate in ODI's was 95/96 even in 80s and 90s when our batsmen strike rates ued to be from high  50s to 60s with few exceptions in early 70s. 

[maniac]

Agree with Gollum and Zen. Kapil should have retired in 1992. 

 

After 1992
 

He got the world record 2 years later but his stats probably took a beating. Can some one pull what his stats were in 1992 Just after the Australian tour?

 

He was part of that infamous Mankading incident in SA

 

His last match got tonked around by Lambert I believe, the hackish wi opener with a weird stance.

 

Played too many tests in SC on turning pitches post 92 to further damage his stats

Only great career moment after the 92 wc was the 100 in SA against Donald and co.

 

Thank god he didn’t last till the 96 WC as was his original plan probably, Jayasuriya and Kalu (not racism) would have eaten him alive